Vietnam Visa update - big changes

[madmen]

10 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Amazing. Not long ago TVF experts were bashing Thailand and saying Vietnam was the best place on the Planet to move to...

 

How quickly things change...

Dozens of threads, I hate Thailand and leaving for Vietnam where they will love me ????

[bojo]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

Dozens of threads, I hate Thailand and leaving for Vietnam where they will love me ????

'Don't burn your bridges', so to speak...............the worlds pretty fluid right now...................

[JayClay]

10 hours ago, madmen said:

Communists Thailand 0% Vietnam 100%

????

 

Not really, though...

[Danderman123]

10 hours ago, madmen said:

Communists Thailand 0% Vietnam 100%

????

With a stock market. 

[cclub75]

Covid is just an excuse. The tree hidding the jungle behind.

 

The reality is more simple... This move against foreigners is... global. I mean in Asia.

 

Borders are coming back, visas policies become harder etc.

 

It's perfectly normal.

 

SEA was before... third world. Few rules. Life was easy.

 

Now with modernity, and much higher standard of living... normality is taking back its "rights".

 

Normality = here it's my home. And your home is not here. Sorry but "mi casa no es tu casa".

 

Only in Europe and America and Canada, people think that everybody is equal and that anybody can come and go... They are the dreamers.

 

The global new normality is totally different.

 

The good life is over.

 

SEA will follow China. It's a matter of balances of powers and history. There is nothing than can prevent or reverse this evolution.

 

Noborder way of thinking, globalism are over. It was a fantasy.

 

Human psyché is different : foreigners can be welcomed but... in a very small number and temporarily only.

 

It's not racism. Just basic human behavior since the dawn of times...

[simple1]

11 hours ago, madmen said:

Better than Thailand in what way? They despise westerners at a whole new level. It's just a 3rd world dump on par with Cambodia 

Disagree. Vietnam is fine and far better than Cambodia, admittedly Thailand is more Westernised. Vietnam tourist beaches and sea a lot cleaner than Thailand.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Dozens of threads, I hate Thailand and leaving for Vietnam where they will love me ????

 

I have a bit of schadenfreude right now, i warned so many and got nothing but backlash here.

 

Meanwhile it's thailand who comes up with new visas like the new digital nomad visa which might even pass this time.

 

Some people really need to wake the <deleted> up, if thailand would want expats to leave they wouldn't have tons of long stay visas options, they wouldnt have allowed tourists to stay here for over a year due to covid, they would be like vietnam...

 

And to the ones who think no one with money would come here, who the <deleted> do you think owns all the phuket, samui and co villas and yachts - broke people????

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, andy said:

Seems really short sighted for Vietnam to do this, maybe post-covid things will normalize

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I totally buy the "draining the swamp" angle.  If covid wasn't a factor, then I'd say it would certainly seem that way, but with covid, it's totally possible that it's a temporary "get as many foreigners out of here as possible, particularly those with less authentic visa, as they're more problematic and difficult to track/manage/control in this situation".

 

Vietnam have taken covid incredibly seriously and have locked down over the smallest number of cases.  I read that not only did they extend quarantine to 21 days from 14, but they actually decided to keep people in quarantine without a leave date during the latest outbreak.  A group of foreigners whose whereabouts they cannot adequately track is probably the last thing they want right now.

 

I don't think they're allowing any tourist in at the moment and it's very hard for even skilled workers to get in, with months of checks and waiting to get on a flight.  This all suggests they're being incredibly cautious around foreigners right now.  Why not get rid of all but the most official and legitimate foreigners?

 

I know a lot of expats enjoy the "getting rid of the riff-raff" angle, as it allows them to feel superior and they enjoy something bad happening to another human being (says more about them than the people who are being kicked out tbh), but I'm not sure how much these countries see it that way.  Someone with money to spend is someone with money to spend.  And no matter how small that amount is, it all adds up.

[shdmn]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:26 AM, BenDeCosta said:

Laughable that Thailand is trying to target rich ex-pats and tourists. Rich people want luxury, not stinking khlongs, rodents in the streets at night, blatant prostitution, beaches strewn with trash and tuk-tuk drivers passed out drunk on the pavements.

 

They'd go to places like Antigua, Singapore, Tokyo and Monaco.

 

If the Thais had any sense, they'd focus on the very people who made Thailand popular in the first place, i.e. budget travelers, backpackers, gap-year students and single men. You can't just turn a third-world country into a destination for the jet-setting elite with a few press releases. Pure insanity.

 

Thailand was a great place to holiday for Westerners because it had great weather, good food, amazing beaches and the icing on the cake was that it was cheap. Once it's no longer cheap, then there are many other places in the world that can offer more for less. They're shooting themselves in the foot, but they probably don't even know that they're holding a gun. They just don't have a clue.

 

If I was a multi-millionaire ex-pat, no way in hell would I be in Thailand. I would be living in the Bahamas in a super-luxury apartment and wouldn't give Thailand a second thought. No well-heeled and successful business person would choose Thailand, because you can get better elsewhere. The immigration rules and visa requirements are a massive hassle.

 

Thailand trying to appeal to super rich tourists is like Las Vegas appealing to people who don't gamble and don't drink. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Las Vegas is for people who like to gamble, and Thailand is for people who like to travel on a budget.

You must be hanging around the wrong areas then.  Plenty of high end areas with rich expats and Thais all over Thailand.

[GrandPapillon]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:47 AM, bojo said:

I'd be interested to know why Vietnam has changed tack or is this no surprise. I get JT says 'the government just isn't into this', but why not?? Anyway, it's news to me, but I'm not up to speed Vietnam-wise.................

this is SE Asia, this was bound to happen, and it will happen eventually to Thailand

[BangkokReady]

8 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

this is SE Asia, this was bound to happen, and it will happen eventually to Thailand

 

What's the motivation for it?  They don't care about any money these people bring/generate and simply want to remove "low-quality" foreigners?

[adammike]

On 6/9/2021 at 4:55 PM, Maha Sarakham said:

 

Food.

Customer Service.

Hospitality.

Variety of natural landscapes (and taken care of far better).

Honesty & no dual pricing.

I'd even go as far to say they may even be nicer/friendlier than most of the Thais these days.

 

My wife is Thai but neither she nor I are blind to the benefits of Vietnam.  We both would like to go back after covid is 'over', we both immensely enjoyed it.

You had me there and until.... "Honesty".

[Johnny Mac]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:42 PM, La Quenta said:

 

On the contrary, day to day life is superior to Thailand imo. It's far more eastern, much more of an adventure than Thailand. It's got that French feel in the food, coffee and architecture than Thailand doesnt have. The street life is far more interesting and engrossing.

 

Would agree with that, it is proper SE Asia. Couldn't live there though, not enough English spoken and the beeping of the horns 24x7 would drive me loco. Great place to visit though.

[GrandPapillon]

6 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

What's the motivation for it?  They don't care about any money these people bring/generate and simply want to remove "low-quality" foreigners?

the motivation is the same as in every country when you see too many tourists or foreigners on your land, you want them out

 

I suspect they want to take back control of their "space" no matter the cost. Look at how they react when even citizens from neighborhood countries cross their borders without the right paperwork, they go apesh**. You don't see that in civilized countries, they are tribal by definition, and digital nomads are "invaders" ????

[BangkokReady]

5 hours ago, adammike said:

You had me there and until.... "Honesty".

 

It's a funny one, because the dishonesty manifests itself differently in each country.  Obviously both places have the "lie over anything if it benefits you in some way without hesitation or consideration of consequences" that is common in SEA, but I think that in Thailand it's a little less conspiratory.  In Vietnam, in my experience, you're a lot more likely to feel like you're being "handled" or conned, while in Thailand it feels a bit more about maintaining status quo and not causing any embarrassment.

 

I felt like I was a lot more aware if I <deleted> someone off in Vietnam, but also that it was a lot more likely to happen over nothing as well.

[BritManToo]

On 6/10/2021 at 1:50 AM, Andy from Kent said:

It sure sounds like either you haven't been to Vietnam or you've seen a different one than I did.

I agree with you, been 5-6 times in the last few years, every trip was great.

Viet VISA was always a bit iffy, Cambodia and the Philippines were much easier long-term.

[xylophone]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, gearbox said:

The options for the western low class in SE Asia are slowly shrinking. Where to now? Vietnam kicking them out, Thailand according to TVF is getting worse and worse, Myanmar under coup, Cambodia taken over by the Chinese, Malaysia expensive, Indonesia muslim, India they are drinking one beer with 4 straws, Philippines crime and bad food..looks like only PNG left!

Or perhaps Rarotonga...........warm, quiet and with the best beaches I've ever seen!

[adammike]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

It's a funny one, because the dishonesty manifests itself differently in each country.  Obviously both places have the "lie over anything if it benefits you in some way without hesitation or consideration of consequences" that is common in SEA, but I think that in Thailand it's a little less conspiratory.  In Vietnam, in my experience, you're a lot more likely to feel like you're being "handled" or conned, while in Thailand it feels a bit more about maintaining status quo and not causing any embarrassment.

 

I felt like I was a lot more aware if I <deleted> someone off in Vietnam, but also that it was a lot more likely to happen over nothing as well.

In their defence they don't discriminate everybody is a target, foreign born children of the boat people tracing their roots a speciality.

[glenmohr]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:42 PM, La Quenta said:

 

On the contrary, day to day life is superior to Thailand imo. It's far more eastern, much more of an adventure than Thailand. It's got that French feel in the food, coffee and architecture than Thailand doesnt have. The street life is far more interesting and engrossing. The mountains and beaches are much better than Thailand, especially in Central and North. 

 

Up until this year, the Government has very much been 'live and let live' when it comes to foreigners. You never see the overt Racism as you do on occasion in Thailand. 

 

I love Thailand by the way and have lived there too. It's just a personal opinion that Vietnam is much more interesting and beautiful. 

 

 

Thats not a very intellectual argument. 

Just for the record, I arrived back in Vietnam Feb 2020, Although I first visited in 1990 on business I have returned many times Never done a visa run. I arrive and I leave.

 

I come here because it has so many positive features as recorded by others in this forum . It was one of the World's most beautiful places to visit 

 

The only reason I stayed this time was because I thought I was safer in Vietnam than travelling around or returning  back to Thailand. We were given numerous extensions During the pandemic and lock downs most visitors  obeyed the rules and were law abiding   

 

During the first lock downs this time last year many Viet businesses were completely destroyed due to inactivity and no customers 

 

The lock downs continue and more businesses are being progressively destroyed 

 

All the gains made ( if any) during the lock downs are now being lost due to the forced movements of thousands of foreigners in the middle of a worsening pandemic. Those of us now being forced to leave not only run the risk of contracting the worsening virus but we also run the risk of taking the Vietnamese version into the next country we are forced to fly to  

 

The forced removal of so many foreigners at once is the a huge dose of salt into the already wounded Vietnamese small business man and woman 

[BritManToo]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:10 PM, gearbox said:

The options for the western low class in SE Asia are slowly shrinking. Where to now? Vietnam kicking them out, Thailand according to TVF is getting worse and worse, Myanmar under coup, Cambodia taken over by the Chinese, Malaysia expensive, Indonesia muslim, India they are drinking one beer with 4 straws, Philippines crime and bad food..looks like only PNG left!

Apart from Sihanoukville, I never noticed many Chinese taking over anywhere else in Cambodia.

I also loved the Philippines, didn't find any crime and I always ate in foreign restaurants where the food was great.

[rott]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:26 PM, BenDeCosta said:

Laughable that Thailand is trying to target rich ex-pats and tourists. Rich people want luxury, not stinking khlongs, rodents in the streets at night, blatant prostitution, beaches strewn with trash and tuk-tuk drivers passed out drunk on the pavements.

 

They'd go to places like Antigua, Singapore, Tokyo and Monaco.

 

If the Thais had any sense, they'd focus on the very people who made Thailand popular in the first place, i.e. budget travelers, backpackers, gap-year students and single men. You can't just turn a third-world country into a destination for the jet-setting elite with a few press releases. Pure insanity.

 

Thailand was a great place to holiday for Westerners because it had great weather, good food, amazing beaches and the icing on the cake was that it was cheap. Once it's no longer cheap, then there are many other places in the world that can offer more for less. They're shooting themselves in the foot, but they probably don't even know that they're holding a gun. They just don't have a clue.

 

If I was a multi-millionaire ex-pat, no way in hell would I be in Thailand. I would be living in the Bahamas in a super-luxury apartment and wouldn't give Thailand a second thought. No well-heeled and successful business person would choose Thailand, because you can get better elsewhere. The immigration rules and visa requirements are a massive hassle.

 

Thailand trying to appeal to super rich tourists is like Las Vegas appealing to people who don't gamble and don't drink. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Las Vegas is for people who like to gamble, and Thailand is for people who like to travel on a budget.

Remind me, these "other places in the world that offer more for less". 

Not being a smartarse but I need to review my list of alternative places in case it all goes tits up here. 

[Kelsall]

..

[gargamon]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:16 AM, Ventenio said:

Kick out an American, there should be equal treatment from America. 

Let's look at this a bit differently. Let in an American, then America needs to let in a Thai/Filipino/Malaysian etc. This clearly follows from your logic. 

[Salerno]

7 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

PNG = ?

 

Papua New Guinea

[rcuthbert]

In Thailand, "Retirement" Visas via an agent = "everybody eats". Bureaucratic nosh is presently less abundant; consequently, expats are very, very welcome...

I guess Vietnam has a post colonial, thus highly regulated, bureaucracy.

[BobinBKK]

On 6/9/2021 at 9:14 PM, WineOh said:

I worked in VN on a few different projects a while back.

The visa situation is a complete nightmare.

Business visa and work permit are nigh on impossible to get.

Hanoi, although I do like it, is full of young gap year teachers from the states who survive on 15 day border runs to remain in lawful status.

 

VN's visa system makes Thailand's look like Disneyland in comparison. 

 

Vietnam is a beautiful country to visit.

Living there permanently would be a totally different story.

Are the Philippines or Malaysia worth considering?

[WineOh]

8 minutes ago, BobinBKK said:

Are the Philippines or Malaysia worth considering?

Never been to the Philippines.

 

Only been to Penang in Malaysia and I liked it a lot.

I know that the visa situation there is easy peasy.

 

Just gotta ask yourself if you can stomach living in a predominantly muslim country longterm. 

[La Quenta]

On 6/17/2021 at 1:33 PM, BobinBKK said:

Are the Philippines or Malaysia worth considering?

 

Have had a number of trips to both, but never lived long term. 

 

Personally, despite the fact many Filipinos are very very nice people, there is a really dark and violent underbelly to the Phillippines which has never allowed me to put it into a viable consideration for long term living.

 

Malaysia - friendly, great shopping, incredible food. Having said that, the Malay culture is very conservative by SE-Asian standards so best to be aware of that. It can be difficult to get laid, if that is important to you. Then again, maybe i'm just ugly. 

 

I'd go Malaysia personally. Either KL or Penang. 

 

But really, I feel much more at home in either Vietnam or Thailand. 

 

Overall, this is my hierachy for living in SE Asia:

 

1. Vietnam (visa issues notwithstanding)

2. Thailand

3. Singapore (as long as i'm on a generous enough work contract +have access to easy flights for regular Vietnam/Thailand visits)

4. Malaysia

5. Indonesia (neck and neck with Malaysia really....but hugely depends on where though - Lombok = massive yes, Jakarta = massive no)

6. Cambodia (enjoy visiting, but would not enjoy living in Phnom Penh. Perhaps on a beach down south)

7. Phillipines

8. Myanmar & Laos - havent been to either so cant comment. 

 

 

[Salerno]

14 minutes ago, La Quenta said:

Having said that, the Malay culture is very conservative by SE-Asian standards so best to be aware of that. It can be difficult to get laid, if that is important to you.

 

Depends where, certainly no problem in, as you mentioned later, KL. I was fairly shocked at how easy it was on my first trip to KL.

[theoldgit]

Nonsese, off topic post removed.