Another major Thai insurance company stops offering Covid-19 cover

[webfact]

Picture: Sanook

 

Sanook reported that the Viriyah Insurance company became the second firm this week to stop offering new Covid-19 cover.

 

The company said that all policies related to the disease would not be issued as from 4 pm yesterday. 

 

Those who already had cover will remain covered according to their policies, stressed the company. 

 

The move came after the devastating 3rd wave of the pandemic has hit Thailand causing an unprecedented number of cases clearly catching insurance companies by surprise. 

 

Hours earlier the Syn Mun Kong Insurance Public Company Limited had also announced the end to cover under their Covid 2 in 1 plan. 

 

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[elwood]

BP reported that they reversed this decision one hour later, 

[Dart12]

Who does still?  

Not worried about covid, but not really enjoy getting pick pocketed for incarceration if I get it.

[kynikoi]

Wife says reports are young people giving themselves covid and demanding the 100k payout. Ah, Thailand...

 

The gaming aside the company should never assume more risk than it can manage. Further, no underwriter? Boo hoo. It's really just fraud then isn't it? I'd have some sympathy if money was returned fully in two business weeks but I doubt any will be returned at all. Ah, Thailand.

[Dart12]

2 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

Wife says reports are young people giving themselves covid and demanding the 100k payout. Ah, Thailand...

 

The gaming aside the company should never assume more risk than it can manage. Further, no underwriter? Boo hoo. It's really just fraud then isn't it? I'd have some sympathy if money was returned fully in two business weeks but I doubt any will be returned at all. Ah, Thailand.

what do you mean? the company was paying out immediately and then the kids hid from authoriities for 2 weeks?

 

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

Would not want to be the switchboard operator answering the phones there....

Starting to see what insurance companies are all about....helps you or them when u pay for "coverage"

Pay you out?!!!!  5555  You pay first..then we will decide

Insurance companies are the same the world over, big and small companies, they will look/search for any reason to avoid payout.

 

My Thai DIL was pushed by a Thai insurance agent (DIL's best friend at high school and uni) to start a health policy on DIL's mother at the highest possible level, including many extra coverage items aligned to very advanced state of the art testing all not available in Thailand.

 

My son asked the agent to come to his condo, she claimed she was not allowed to do that. Son insisted/ demanded a copy of the policy (which his wife had never received). Agent claimed customers are not allowed to have copies of policies. Son also asked for receipts for the monthly premium payment his wife had been paying. Response: not allowed.

 

Son went to the HO of Thai bank which is in a JV with a famous big international insurance company. He was told to leave the bank.

 

He googled for a contact number of the international famous partner in the UK.  He called (son speaks native speaker English) and was transferred to a snr executive who listened, asked many questions and guaranteed the situation would be resolved quickly.

 

Quick end result, DIL was promptly advised by phone and e.mail that the policy was cancelled, agent banned.

 

Agent had never passed the premium payments (for many policies) to the bank. Agent was still owed large commission payments, they were cancelled and DIL promptly received a refund of all premiums payed.  

 

About 2 days later a new agent started continuous calling to my DIL saying she had the new policy documents ready to sign. Son called the bank involved and the JV partner in the UK, The Jv partner in the UK quickly told my son they had conducted further investigation and the same day son called the UK partner had cancelled the JV. Son's calls to the Thai bank never returned. 

 

DIL discovered a bit later that her 'best friend' was working as an agent for another famous Thai insurance/assurance JV partner (three letters in their name).  

[mtls2005]

16 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

Wife says

 

what usually follows is gospel.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

31 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

Wife says reports are young people giving themselves covid and demanding the 100k payout. Ah, Thailand...

 

The gaming aside the company should never assume more risk than it can manage. Further, no underwriter? Boo hoo. It's really just fraud then isn't it? I'd have some sympathy if money was returned fully in two business weeks but I doubt any will be returned at all. Ah, Thailand.

 

"The gaming..." When I was lecturing in business at several Thai unis I continuously encouraged students to develop 'business models' and always offered to quickly discuss their 'business models' after classes.

 

A number of times I quickly sat with students after class (single/small groups), listened well to their proposals and asked many questions. Ninety % of the time my eventual comment was 'your proposal is unethical / immoral and I explained why in detail. The response was shock but also realization that I was correct.

 

Ongoing several times either the small group or a member of a small group spoke to me again and said my comment /response had made them think / research deeply about many products/services promoted on TV, on social media sites etc., and they had realized that many of these offerings were illegal / unethical / immoral.  

 

All of the above served a second purpose, the course content always includes 'due diligence', when I asked for specific/focused comments or examples of specific DD items, many times the specific details in the paragraphs just above came out. Insurance was one item. Good reinforcement.

Edited July 17, 2021 by scorecard

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Sanook reported that the Viriyah Insurance company became the second firm this week to stop offering new Covid-19 cover.

No profit now so no insurance policies.... 

[LazySlipper]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

Son went to the HO of Thai bank which is in a JV

You write with so many 'acronyms' that I find it hard to follow you. 

 

U GT My 5?

lol

[unblocktheplanet]

So...if we can't buy Covid insurance, no ASQ, no Sandbox, etc., right?

[metisdead]

A post with a trolling image has been removed. 

[MrJ2U]

6 hours ago, kynikoi said:

Wife says reports are young people giving themselves covid and demanding the 100k payout. Ah, Thailand...

 

The gaming aside the company should never assume more risk than it can manage. Further, no underwriter? Boo hoo. It's really just fraud then isn't it? I'd have some sympathy if money was returned fully in two business weeks but I doubt any will be returned at all. Ah, Thailand.

I doubt many are infecting themselves.  That was one of the excuses the insurance companies were using to not pay out.

 

Like you said, insurance companies shouldn't take  more risk than they can absorb.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by MrJ2U
Spelling error

[new2here]

to me it’s one thing for the insurer to decide to stop writing NEW policies - that to me is a free-market type decision each company has to make on their own… but… to cancel an existing in-force policy is something quite different .. THAT is something i’d expect the regulators to step in.

 

 

that said, i ALSO think it’s unwise for the regulators to allow conditions to continue that would lead to insurers becoming unable to pay claims- thus becoming insolvent … as much as banks and insurers will never win in the court of public opinion/sympathy, i DO think it’s in everyone’s long-term best for them to survive versus going out of business creating a mass of unpaid claims post-liquidation and reducing the pool of underwriters which id suspect only further serves to concentrate the risk into a smaller and smaller insurer base. 

[kimamey]

6 hours ago, kynikoi said:

Wife says reports are young people giving themselves covid and demanding the 100k payout. Ah, Thailand...

 

The gaming aside the company should never assume more risk than it can manage. Further, no underwriter? Boo hoo. It's really just fraud then isn't it? I'd have some sympathy if money was returned fully in two business weeks but I doubt any will be returned at all. Ah, Thailand.

I can't find it now but there were comments a couple of days ago about this on here. There was some suspicion that this wasn't true since insurance companies would normally just pay medical expenses direct to the hospital but there were replies with scans of documents to show some pay out direct to those insured. I don't know if this was for medical expenses or just for having covid.

 

The thing that worries me is will this make it harder to get covid insurance? Maybe these are just companies that have underestimated the risk and so their premiums are too low or they are paying out when they shouldn't. I agree the second isn't that likely but the first is. Hopefully the international companies are more stable even if that means more expensive.

[EricTh]

Insurance companies never lose money.....

[mrfill]

50 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

I doubt many are infecting themselves.  That was one of the excuses the insurance companies were using to not pay out.

 

Like you said, insurance companies shouldn't take  more risk than they can absorb.

 

 

Isn't that why they stated that existing policies were not affected, it was just they were not going to take any new business?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, LazySlipper said:

You write with so many 'acronyms' that I find it hard to follow you. 

 

U GT My 5?

lol

Sorry,

HO = head office

JV = joint venture

[worgeordie]

Last year the Insurance companies thought they were getting

money for nowt, as there were hardly any cases, my wife and

daughter got 100,000 Thb cover for only 150 Thb, I paid 450 Thb

for i think it was 50,000 Thb cover, now thats coming back to

haunt them, as deaths rise, but at least this company is still

honoring the policies already taken out.

regards worgeordie

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, elwood said:

BP reported that they reversed this decision one hour later, 

Well, they didn't reverse their decision, they had it reversed for them by the Office of the Insurance Commission and any other company that try this trick will stamped on as well. Read the side bar.

 

https://www.facebook.com/nbtworld/photos/10158145641702050

[madmitch]

3 hours ago, new2here said:

to me it’s one thing for the insurer to decide to stop writing NEW policies - that to me is a free-market type decision each company has to make on their own… but… to cancel an existing in-force policy is something quite different .. THAT is something i’d expect the regulators to step in.

 

 

that said, i ALSO think it’s unwise for the regulators to allow conditions to continue that would lead to insurers becoming unable to pay claims- thus becoming insolvent … as much as banks and insurers will never win in the court of public opinion/sympathy, i DO think it’s in everyone’s long-term best for them to survive versus going out of business creating a mass of unpaid claims post-liquidation and reducing the pool of underwriters which id suspect only further serves to concentrate the risk into a smaller and smaller insurer base. 

Thanks for posting this. It seems most of the prior posters hadn't bothered to read the article and were condemning the insurance company for rescinding coverage, and the insurance market in general for denying claims on these policies. The first of these is clear from the article; existing policies will remain in force. And has anyone had a genuine claim denied or or know someone who has?

 

The company is well within its rights to stop offering the product and cut its losses. Quite a common practice by inderwriters,

[MrJ2U]

5 hours ago, kimamey said:

I can't find it now but there were comments a couple of days ago about this on here. There was some suspicion that this wasn't true since insurance companies would normally just pay medical expenses direct to the hospital but there were replies with scans of documents to show some pay out direct to those insured. I don't know if this was for medical expenses or just for having covid.

 

The thing that worries me is will this make it harder to get covid insurance? Maybe these are just companies that have underestimated the risk and so their premiums are too low or they are paying out when they shouldn't. I agree the second isn't that likely but the first is. Hopefully the international companies are more stable even if that means more expensive.

Interesting point.

Another added expense if you can find it now.

[MrJ2U]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Last year the Insurance companies thought they were getting

money for nowt, as there were hardly any cases, my wife and

daughter got 100,000 Thb cover for only 150 Thb, I paid 450 Thb

for i think it was 50,000 Thb cover, now thats coming back to

haunt them, as deaths rise, but at least this company is still

honoring the policies already taken out.

regards worgeordie

A lot of us who didn't get wish we had.

Scary times.

[asiam110]

20 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

A lot of us who didn't get wish we had.

Scary times.

Also applies to covid itself, those infected in Q1-Q3 in 2020 have in many research paper reasonable immunity against current alpha and delta variants - once thought to only last six months has now be upgraded, this fact coupled with Thailand close the door mid march 2020 will make the next few months hard for Thailand - a farce vaccine rollout - and low natural immunity across the country makes the reopening in 120 days (or 90 days) unlikely

 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by asiam110

[Maestro]

13 hours ago, elwood said:

BP reported that they reversed this decision one hour later, 

 

How did British Petroleum (BP) get involved in this?

[david555]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Well, they didn't reverse their decision, they had it reversed for them by the Office of the Insurance Commission and any other company that try this trick will stamped on as well. Read the side bar.

 

https://www.facebook.com/nbtworld/photos/10158145641702050

Is the same as stopping new contracts ...so effective stopping them selling those.

But keep the existing ones up to end date contract .....same as intenionally said by company .

 

Only gov. Stating those running keep insured ...

big Gov. PR  scared for their sandbox programs to fail

[bangon04]

8 hours ago, madmitch said:

The company is well within its rights to stop offering the product and cut its losses. Quite a common practice by inderwriters,

and the Thai government is well within its rights to demand that foreigners buy non-existent insurance policies as a pre-requisite for visiting Thailand......

[madmitch]

5 hours ago, bangon04 said:

and the Thai government is well within its rights to demand that foreigners buy non-existent insurance policies as a pre-requisite for visiting Thailand......

And what does this thread have to do with the compusory covid insurance for foreign arrivals?

 

Absolutely nothing. Completely different product.

[Moonlover]

17 hours ago, kimamey said:

I can't find it now but there were comments a couple of days ago about this on here. There was some suspicion that this wasn't true since insurance companies would normally just pay medical expenses direct to the hospital but there were replies with scans of documents to show some pay out direct to those insured. I don't know if this was for medical expenses or just for having covid.

 

The thing that worries me is will this make it harder to get covid insurance? Maybe these are just companies that have underestimated the risk and so their premiums are too low or they are paying out when they shouldn't. I agree the second isn't that likely but the first is. Hopefully the international companies are more stable even if that means more expensive.

Yes you're right. I was involved in that conversation as I was also surprised that any insurance company would write a policy that would pay the sufferer rather than the medical provider. But then it dawned on me that Covid treatment, for Thais is free, so of course the payout would go to the patient!

 

Of course when those policies were being sold, one would have been hard pressed to find a Covid sufferer to go and catch the disease from, but nowadays, with the disease being rife, it should be quite easy, so the risk to the insurers has increased dramatically. 

 

Normal Covid policies which pay for medical treatment are unaffected and are still available, but the cost has risen substantially. When I bought my policy just 3 months ago, it was 850 THB for up 1 million THB cover. The same policy now costs 2,179 THB with a ceiling of only 300,000 THB.

 

So glad I got in when I did. 

 

 

[kimamey]

15 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yes you're right. I was involved in that conversation as I was also surprised that any insurance company would write a policy that would pay the sufferer rather than the medical provider. But then it dawned on me that Covid treatment, for Thais is free, so of course the payout would go to the patient!

 

Of course when those policies were being sold, one would have been hard pressed to find a Covid sufferer to go and catch the disease from, but nowadays, with the disease being rife, it should be quite easy, so the risk to the insurers has increased dramatically. 

 

Normal Covid policies which pay for medical treatment are unaffected and are still available, but the cost has risen substantially. When I bought my policy just 3 months ago, it was 850 THB for up 1 million THB cover. The same policy now costs 2,179 THB with a ceiling of only 300,000 THB.

 

So glad I got in when I did. 

 

 

There are policies that pay out on death or loss of limbs or eyesight but those are one off payments. The costs of loss of earnings, funeral expenses and medical expenses are slightly different so I can see why that might be a problem for insurers with non Thai policy holders but as you say things are slightly different for Thais. Having said that I'm married to a government employee so in normal circumstances I would get medical treatment based on that but it seems they've excluded covid.