Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[Jeffr2]

Just now, BangkokBaksida said:

Everything that you post in favor of COVID vaccines is misinformation in my opinion.  So do you think it should be removed?  Or should only things that YOU consider to be misinformation removed?

Show me one post that is misinformation.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, BangkokBaksida said:

You just don't get it, do you?  The point is:  Who gets to decide what is "misinformation"?  You?  Your fellow pro-vaxxers?  How can we get to the truth when we are only allowed to hear one side of an argument?

So you’ve missed all the fake studies, half truths, outright fabrications and unsubstantiated claims that form the basis of so many anti-vaccines arguments.

 

The truth is knowable and misinformation is frequently exposed in the discussions across this forum.

 

The vast majority coming from anti-vaxers.

[Danderman123]

8 minutes ago, BangkokBaksida said:

Everything that you post in favor of COVID vaccines is misinformation in my opinion.  So do you think it should be removed?  Or should only things that YOU consider to be misinformation removed?

Vaccination significantly reduces the probability of infection by the Covid virus. 

 

Do you disagree? 

[atpeace]

If I use a name in post it gets to be personal and removed. I'll give it try anyhow.  Jeff, is it misinformation and/or any opinion that is not very closely aligned with your vaccination beliefs that upsets you.  Sincerely interested and I know you don't owe me a response. Hypothetical  example,  I got one shot and I had mild body aches that frightened me and decided to forego the next shot.  I also told others of my reservations and fears that the shot might be dangerous.  How bad or good is this person in your opinion from 1-10.  10 being a saint.

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, atpeace said:

If I use a name in post it gets to be personal and removed. I'll give it try anyhow.  Jeff, is it misinformation and/or any opinion that is not very closely aligned with your vaccination beliefs that upsets you.  Sincerely interested and I know you don't owe me a response. Hypothetical  example,  I got one shot and I had mild body aches that frightened me and decided to forego the next shot.  I also told others of my reservations and fears that the shot might be dangerous.  How bad or good is this person in your opinion from 1-10.  10 being a saint.

Whether or not you personally get vaccinated is of no interest to anyone here. What does concern other people is if you spread misinformation or otherwise attempt to convince people that they shouldn't get the vaccination. Only a doctor might advise them against it. Anybody here who spreads FUD deserves to be reported.

[Scott]

Off-topic, baiting, bickering, nonsense has been removed.  GET BACK ON TOPIC OR FACE A SUSPENSION.  Final warning. 

[Danderman123]

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/11/02/the-number-of-people-who-have-died-from-covid-19-is-likely-to-be-close-to-17m

 

 

[Jeffr2]

9 hours ago, atpeace said:

If I use a name in post it gets to be personal and removed. I'll give it try anyhow.  Jeff, is it misinformation and/or any opinion that is not very closely aligned with your vaccination beliefs that upsets you.  Sincerely interested and I know you don't owe me a response. Hypothetical  example,  I got one shot and I had mild body aches that frightened me and decided to forego the next shot.  I also told others of my reservations and fears that the shot might be dangerous.  How bad or good is this person in your opinion from 1-10.  10 being a saint.

The main thing that upsets me is people posting misinformation.  This tends to come from the anti vaxer/covid denier camp.  Those in the vax camp are getting the jabs and moving on with their lives.  The anti vaxxers are just ranting all over social media and the far right media sites.

 

A 10 is given to a double vaccinated individual, or one who can't due to medical reasons.  A 1 is given to someone who posts misinformation, like vaccines don't work.

[Jeffr2]

Anti vaxxers world is getting smaller and smaller.  Luckily.

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/parenting/kids-under-12-can-get-the-covid-vaccine-where-to-get-it-and-more/

 

Kids 5 and older can get the COVID vaccine: Where to get it and more

Children as young as 5 years old can now get vaccinated against the novel coronavirus.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html

 

The White House announced that vaccines will be required for international travelers coming into the United States, with an effective date of November 8, 2021. For purposes of entry into the United States, vaccines accepted will include FDA approved or authorized and WHO Emergency Use Listing vaccines.

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

 

A 10 is given to a double vaccinated individual, or one who can't due to medical reasons.  A 1 is given to someone who posts misinformation, like vaccines don't work.

I thought a 10 was given to the unvaxed and a 1 was given to the vaxed..

[Someone Else]

16 hours ago, BangkokBaksida said:

What gives YOU the right to decide what I should see?  Instead of reporting something that YOU consider to be verifiably blatant misinformation, why not rebut it?  That's what a man of principle would do.

 

For example, I'm an anti-COVID-vaxxer, but I am not afraid of anything you pro-vaxxers might say, even though I disagree with most of it.  And I would never dream of reporting your misinformation, as I believe in freedom of speech.

I don't have that right, the mods do.  Of course I rebut the garbage people post here...and sometimes the rebuttal gets deleted because the post I responded to violated rules.  The messages I have reported were the endlessly repeated and thoroughly debunked lies which violated forum rules.  I did not report because I disagreed with someone--to the contrary I feel disagreements can be fruitful if negotiated in an adult manner.

 

A "man of principal" abides by the clearly delineated rules agreed to when signing up.  But the antivax clan doesn't care about rules or community, they are antisocials who engage in violent confrontations with flight attendants and service industry workers.  To me that kind of behavior is unacceptable, so suffice to say we have a divergence in principals and values.

 

Happy to have an adult conversation about the "misinformation" you have accused me of disseminating, let's see the specifics.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/3/2021 at 8:19 PM, placnx said:

Rationally, society can require individuals to do certain things, and this includes vaccinations. How is Covid vaccination less important than measles?

In NZ that would require a law change. Measles vaccine is given to children and authorized by parents ( or not, given the epidemic a while back ). Adults have to give consent.

They can make them lose their job if they don't, but they can't force adults to have it.

[Jeffr2]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In NZ that would require a law change. Measles vaccine is given to children and authorized by parents ( or not, given the epidemic a while back ). Adults have to give consent.

They can make them lose their job if they don't, but they can't force adults to have it.

Many places require measles vaccine for children to enter school  No adult consent needed.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Many places require measles vaccine for children to enter school  No adult consent needed.

I don’t believe that is entirely correct.

 

Vaccination is a medical procedure and to my knowledge everywhere requires (Hippocratic oath/and medical regulation) informed consent. 

 

I suspect that in the case of school entry requirements the application process includes giving consent for vaccination.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t believe that is entirely correct.

 

Vaccination is a medical procedure and to my knowledge everywhere requires (Hippocratic oath/and medical regulation) informed consent. 

 

I suspect that in the case of school entry requirements the application process includes giving consent for vaccination.

 

 

 

Agreed. In NZ they can't give children any medication without parent's consent, far as I know. Perhaps an NZ parent on here knows different.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agreed. In NZ they can't give children any medication without parent's consent, far as I know. Perhaps an NZ parent on here knows different.

But of course there are two parents and they don’t always agree.

 

Courts are willing to act:

 

https://feigenbaumlaw.ca/2021/10/06/quebec-court-orders-covid-19-vaccination-of-teenager-despite-fathers-objections/

 

 

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t believe that is entirely correct.

 

Vaccination is a medical procedure and to my knowledge everywhere requires (Hippocratic oath/and medical regulation) informed consent. 

 

I suspect that in the case of school entry requirements the application process includes giving consent for vaccination.

 

 

 

For entry into California schools, vaccines are required. Other places also.

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

For entry into California schools, vaccines are required. Other places also.

This is not in dispute. 

 

However the vaccination still requires consent. In California the vaccination of a minor requires parental consent (there is an exception for treatment and vaccination relating to sexually transmitted diseases under which minors of 12 years and older may give their own consent without their parent's knowledge), but in all other cases parental consent is required. 

 

The UK has a more clear policy, minors of 16 years and older have full rights to decide their medical treatments while minors below 16 who are considered 'Gillick Competent' may also decide for themselves in contradiction to their parents wishes. 

 

Also in the UK only one parents permission is needed, though disagreement will often be resolved by the court of protection. 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/children/

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Jeffr2]

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/10/01/california-becomes-first-state-in-nation-to-announce-covid-19-vaccine-requirements-for-schools/

 

“The state already requires that students are vaccinated against viruses that cause measles, mumps, and rubella – there’s no reason why we wouldn’t do the same for COVID-19. Today’s measure, just like our first-in-the-nation school masking and staff vaccination requirements, is about protecting our children and school staff, and keeping them in the classroom,” said Governor Newsom. “Vaccines work. It’s why California leads the country in preventing school closures and has the lowest case rates. We encourage other states to follow our lead to keep our kids safe and prevent the spread of COVID-19.”

[Scott]

Vaccines are required for attending public schools.   Most children are vaccinated starting when they are infants, so parents who are anti-vax are usually quite well aware of what lies ahead.  They have the choice of either private schools, and most of those will require vaccination or home schooling.  

 

 

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, Scott said:

Vaccines are required for attending public schools.   Most children are vaccinated starting when they are infants, so parents who are anti-vax are usually quite well aware of what lies ahead.  They have the choice of either private schools, and most of those will require vaccination or home schooling. 

Sad times for the children of these parents.  I know a couple like this.  Their child is really suffering and not developing properly being home schooled all alone.  Terrible.

[Scott]

24 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad times for the children of these parents.  I know a couple like this.  Their child is really suffering and not developing properly being home schooled all alone.  Terrible.

A number of pediatricians have refused to accept children as patients if they are not vaccinated.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccinations-no-doctor-a-third-of-pediatricians-wont-treat-families-without-immunizations

[pgrahmm]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad times for the children of these parents.  I know a couple like this.  Their child is really suffering and not developing properly being home schooled all alone.  Terrible.

They either turn out brilliant + introverted or unable to connect with society's many levels....

Societal arrested development....

 

Unless they were lucky enough to have parents that also made them participate in group/team/club/sporting activities....Most home school parents don't....To the child's - ultimately man's/woman's deficit....

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts and replies removed, along with additional later posts that continued on the same off-topic diversion.

[ignis]

vaccinating kids, yes got these as a kid and spent time in Hospital with bad vaccine reactions. and every vaccine since.

 

back to Covid 19. anyone know if these new Med's will be any good for people that cannot have the Vaccine ?

 

Pfizer  Covid-19 antiviral medicine “Paxlovid” [ high success rate · Results appear to surpass those of rival Merck drug ]

“Molnupiravir” Covid-19 antiviral medicine produced by Merck...  [Read up on this.. appear you need 40 capsules over about 3 months if you are unvaccinated ]

 

Understand they have been ordered and will arrive in Thailand early next year.. ?

[Danderman123]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:23 PM, Jeffr2 said:

Sad times for the children of these parents.  I know a couple like this.  Their child is really suffering and not developing properly being home schooled all alone.  Terrible.

Home schooled children generally are poorly educated. 

[fjb 24]

Vaccine mandates are being pushed now in the US. Where is all this going, only time and the courts will tell and decide this issue. These mandates are tied to OHSA and affect employers with more than 100 employees.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/world/americas/biden-osha-vaccine-mandate-blocked.html

Edited November 7, 2021 by fjb 24

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:50 PM, Scott said:

A number of pediatricians have refused to accept children as patients if they are not vaccinated.

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccinations-no-doctor-a-third-of-pediatricians-wont-treat-families-without-immunizations

I can forsee lawsuits over that. While the Hippocratic oath doesn't specifically say they must treat any that come to them, "I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism" could be interpreted that way.

 

( quoted from Wikipedia,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath )

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can forsee lawsuits over that. While the Hippocratic oath doesn't specifically say they must treat any that come to them, "I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism" could be interpreted that way.

 

( quoted from Wikipedia,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath )

I’m not sure the Hippocratic oath has any legal standing.

[placnx]

4 hours ago, ignis said:

vaccinating kids, yes got these as a kid and spent time in Hospital with bad vaccine reactions. and every vaccine since.

 

back to Covid 19. anyone know if these new Med's will be any good for people that cannot have the Vaccine ?

 

Pfizer  Covid-19 antiviral medicine “Paxlovid” [ high success rate · Results appear to surpass those of rival Merck drug ]

“Molnupiravir” Covid-19 antiviral medicine produced by Merck...  [Read up on this.. appear you need 40 capsules over about 3 months if you are unvaccinated ]

 

Understand they have been ordered and will arrive in Thailand early next year.. ?

The molnupiravir treatment is administered over 5 days.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04575597?term=molnupiravir&draw=2&rank=2

In the end, the 800mg dose was chosen for Phase 2, taken twice a day for 5 days. Phase 3 trial MOVe-OUT had excellent interim results, upon which it was approved in the UK to be marketed as Lagevrio.