Pandemic of the unvaccinated????

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, frantick said:

Sure. What is it now, 42% efficacy for Pfizer and 75% for moderna? Meaning 25 to 58% of vaccinated people could be variant factories.

 

Do you feel safe knowing 58% of your vaccinated friends could give you covid? At what percentage do the vaxers stop demanding everyone join their club? What if it's 98% breakthrough possible, would you still demand injections for all? Why?

 

Isn't the truth that, if there ARE issues with the vaccines down the road, you want everyone to be in the same boat as you?

 

As has repeatedly been pointed out to you, even when there is a breakthrough case, it tends to be milder and of shorter duration so that means less transmission of the virus. And what don't you understand about the fact that over 99% of covid-19 deaths in hospitals are of the unvaccinated?

 

As for their being 'issues with the vaccines down the road', to quote a fella named Jesus Christ "Sufficient unto the day are the troubles thereof." I got facts, you got hypotheticals.

[frantick]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

As has repeatedly been pointed out to you, even when there is a breakthrough case, it tends to be milder and of shorter duration so that means less transmission of the virus. And what don't you understand about the fact that over 99% of covid-19 deaths in hospitals are of the unvaccinated?

 

As for their being 'issues with the vaccines down the road', to quote a fella named Jesus Christ "Sufficient unto the day are the troubles thereof." I got facts, you got hypotheticals.

Hypotheticals only because the numbers keep changing. Right now, sufficient unto the day, they're 58% and 25%. You can't even answer that question?

 

What I have been unable to find, is a study of reinfection for natural immunity from infection vs initial or reinfection of vaccinated (not having been previously naturally infected).

 

There's a study out there from Kentucky, that tries to present itself as this, but it is not. It is reinfected naturally no vaccine vs reinfected post natural infection+vaccine. 2.34 times less likely to reinfect or something.

 

I know they're saying the vaccine helps prevent reinfection of the naturally infected, I don't dispute that. But that's not what I'm looking for.

 

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, frantick said:

Hypotheticals only because the numbers keep changing. Right now, sufficient unto the day, they're 58% and 25%. You can't even answer that question?

 

What I have been unable to find, is a study of reinfection for natural immunity from infection vs initial or reinfection of vaccinated (not having been previously naturally infected).

 

There's a study out there from Kentucky, that tries to present itself as this, but it is not. It is reinfected naturally no vaccine vs reinfected post natural infection+vaccine. 2.34 times less likely to reinfect or something.

 

I know they're saying the vaccine helps prevent reinfection of the naturally infected, I don't dispute that. But that's not what I'm looking for.

 

 

No, hypotheticals because you posit possible ill consequences of vaccinations sometime in the future. Unless, of course, you're traveling backwards in time and have seen the future already.

I have answered your silly question over and over again. What don't you understand about the fact that if you're vaccinated, even if you become a breakthrough case. the odds are much higher that your case will be mild and brief than if you contract the infection and haven't been vaccinated in the first place?

So, do you think it would be a good plan to get naturally infected with covid in the first place and run a much higher risk of death and long term consequences than would be the case if you got vaccinated? Just to have a less likely chance of being reinfected? What don't you understand about the fact that hospitals are reporting 199 deaths of the unvaccinated vs. 1 death for the vaccinated? And much higher hospitalization rates?

[lucky2008]

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

This is typical of the way denialists think. What the doctor said was taken from a snippet of an interview. No context provided. It's obviously nuts to claim that the vaccinated actually are more liable to be in serious condition than the unvaccinated which would be the case in Israel were his alleged claim true. This  contradicts not only what the Israeli Health authorities are claiming but also what is the case in every country that reports on covid hospitalizations. For this to be true, there would have to be a massive conspiracy on the part of hospitals and public health authorities worldwide that consistently report the unvaccinated outnumber the vaccinated in hospitalizations. How desperate do you have to be to be so gullible?

As desperate as those people who believe everything the public health authorities and the mainstream media are saying.  

I'm not saying that the vaccinated are more liable to be in serious condition than the unvaccinated. I'm saying the more we keep vaccinating the more in danger we might become. 

The UK government has already admitted that:

"The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge.  The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally." 

Did you read the case study on the Marek’s vaccine?  

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by lucky2008

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

I'm not saying that the vaccinated are more liable to be in serious condition than the unvaccinated. I'm saying the more we keep vaccinating the more in danger we might become. 

Right. What you were saying is, at the least, that they were no less likely to be in serious condition than the vaccinated. Otherwise why would you have cited that snippet from an interview with Dr. Kobi Havi.

 

"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated". "85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people." "We are opening more and more COVID wards." "The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out" (Dr. Kobi Haviv, earlier today on Chanel 13

 

Had you bothered to do the a little investigation you would have learned that he's the medical director of a hospital that specialized in geriatric care. He wasn't talking about the general situation in Israel. Just about his hospital. But naturally you fall for the information provided by a garbage pile of a news source. And then you posted this challenge:

 

Go ahead spin this one as well I'm waiting.  

 

I did enjjoy the irony in reading such a challenge from someone who's been spun.

[Ryan754326]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:43 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Variants will keep popping up until more are vaccinated. The current increase in cases in many countries with high vaccination rates is primarily among the unvaccinated.

 

If we're going to get this behind us, get the jab. It's the right thing to do.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

 

• About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated, according to new data published Friday by the CDC.
• The new data, published in the U.S. agency's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Ryan754326

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

As desperate as those people who believe everything the public health authorities and the mainstream media are saying.  

I'm not saying that the vaccinated are more liable to be in serious condition than the unvaccinated. I'm saying the more we keep vaccinating the more in danger we might become. 

The UK government has already admitted that:

"The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge.  The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally." 

Possibly, maybe. From that same report.

13. It is almost certain that the peak in deaths will be well below the levels seen in January 2021 due to the impact of vaccination (assuming that no new dominant variant emerges) (high confidence).

[cdemundo]

2 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

As desperate as those people who believe everything the public health authorities and the mainstream media are saying.  

I'm not saying that the vaccinated are more liable to be in serious condition than the unvaccinated. I'm saying the more we keep vaccinating the more in danger we might become. 

The UK government has already admitted that:

"The combination of high prevalence and high levels of vaccination creates the conditions in which an immune escape variant is most likely to emerge.  The likelihood of this happening is unknown, but such a variant would present a significant risk both in the UK and internationally." 

Did you read the case study on the Marek’s vaccine?  

 

You missed the point of the Marek's study that you reference.

 

"Here we show experimentally that immunization of chickens against Marek's disease virus enhances the fitness of more virulent strains, making it possible for hyperpathogenic strains to transmit.

Immunity elicited by direct vaccination or by maternal vaccination prolongs host survival but does not prevent infection, viral replication or transmission, thus extending the infectious periods of strains otherwise too lethal to persist."

 

The study authors are referring to "strains otherwise too lethal to persist"; that is strains that kill their host so rapidly that the host cannot infect other chickens.

They are saying that the vaccines prolong the chickens survival long enough to transmit the extremely lethal strains of the virus when otherwise they would die before transmitting and the virus would not spread.

 

Obviously, this does not apply to COVID which has no strains that are so lethal that they kill the host before it can transmit the infection.

The findings of the chicken study have no bearing on COVID and COVID vaccines.

 

Addendum: Just as you don't understand the difference between "mutations" and "selection pressure", it seems pretty clear you don't know what the authors are saying when they refer to "strains too lethal to persist".  If you did understand, you would not have used this study as evidence supporting any theory about COVID since COVID has no such strains..

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by cdemundo
addendum

[vinci]

Anti vaxxer are doing what they do best, finding any little reason to be un-vaccinated, let it be done with the decision you made and death is the new cure.

[lucky2008]

19 minutes ago, vinci said:

Anti vaxxer are doing what they do best, finding any little reason to be un-vaccinated, let it be done with the decision you made and death is the new cure.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer - I've had every vaccine known to man.  

Everyone has the right to choose what they put into their bodies. 

If you feel comfortable injecting an experimental vaccine that's only been out for 7-8 months into yours that's up to you.   

Stop trying to convince others they should be doing the same.  

 

[vinci]

Quote

Stop trying to convince others they should be doing the same.

i'm not convince anybody to doing anything, i couldn't care less what you want or don't want, zero ...., you brought up the subject, i gave my opinion and death is the new cure.

[lucky2008]

15 minutes ago, vinci said:

i'm not convince anybody to doing anything, i couldn't care less what you want or don't want, zero ...., you brought up the subject, i gave my opinion and death is the new cure.

"death is the new cure" What is that even supposed to mean? 

Edited August 15, 2021 by lucky2008

[vinci]

Quote

"death is the new cure" What is that even supposed to mean? 

anti-vaxxer mindset ????‍♂️, i'm done here

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, vinci said:

Anti vaxxer are doing what they do best, finding any little reason to be un-vaccinated, let it be done with the decision you made and death is the new cure.

My excuse to be un-vaccinated ...... there's no vaccine to be had.

And there's a lot of people at more risk than me, who should go first when there is some to be had.

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

I'm not an anti-vaxxer - I've had every vaccine known to man.  

Everyone has the right to choose what they put into their bodies. 

If you feel comfortable injecting an experimental vaccine that's only been out for 7-8 months into yours that's up to you.   

Stop trying to convince others they should be doing the same.  

 

 

Bob goes to the dentist....  dentist looks into his mouth, recognises an issue... 

“Bob, we’re going to have to x-ray your head and see what the problem is”...

“We’ll expose you to the same amount of radiation you would normally receive in one week in 2 seconds"

“Sure thing dentist, your the expert"

 

 

Bob then goes to the doctors with back / kidney pain...

“Bob, we’re going to have to do a CT Scan to see what the problem is"

“We’ll expose you to the same amount of radiation you would normally receive in 3 years in a couple of minutes"

“Sure Doc you’re the expert"

 

 

The Doctor also asks Bob if he has received his Covid-19 vaccination... 

“Bob, we have this vaccination which is potentially life saving, it has a proven very high success rate of limiting the risk of severe illness and death from Covid-19"

...”No way Doc, that S#!T is dangerous.... a bunch of guys on ThaiVisa.com say so” !!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Bob goes to the dentist....  dentist looks into his mouth, recognises an issue... 

“Bob, we’re going to have to x-ray your head and see what the problem is”...

“We’ll expose you to the same amount of radiation you would normally receive in one week in 2 seconds"

“Sure thing dentist, your the expert"

 

 

Bob then goes to the doctors with back / kidney pain...

“Bob, we’re going to have to do a CT Scan to see what the problem is"

“We’ll expose you to the same amount of radiation you would normally receive in 3 years in a couple of minutes"

“Sure Doc you’re the expert"

 

 

The Doctor also asks Bob if he has received his Covid-19 vaccination... 

“Bob, we have this vaccination which is potentially life saving, it has a proven very high success rate of limiting the risk of severe illness and death from Covid-19"

...”No way Doc, that S#!T is dangerous.... a bunch of guys on ThaiVisa.com say so” !!!! 

I'm OK with the tooth X-ray, it's only 100bht and doesn't seem to do any harm.

I'd pass on the CT scan, they seem expensive and pointless.

COVID vaccination, I'm OK waiting until the FDA gives normal approval, why are they taking so long?

[lucky2008]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm OK waiting until the FDA gives normal approval, why are they taking so long?

Yeah that's really weird.  

Wild guess here, but maybe it's because the FDA hasn't determined yet that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the harm. 

[248900_1469958220]

2 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Yeah that's really weird.  

Wild guess here, but maybe it's because the FDA hasn't determined yet that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the harm. 

No, they havent...but it seems many have. 

[Sametboy2019]

So both vaccinated and unvaccinated can both pass the virus but vaccinated people are less likely to have severe symptoms and die.

So to wrap this all up why would a vaccinated person care if a unvaccinated person(them being in the minority) had the vaccine or not and vice versa.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Sametboy2019 said:

So both vaccinated and unvaccinated can both pass the virus but vaccinated people are less likely to have severe symptoms and die.

So to wrap this all up why would a vaccinated person care if a unvaccinated person(them being in the minority) had the vaccine or not and vice versa.

 

Slightly incorrect: While vaccinated people ‘can’ transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus after exposure, they do so to a far lesser degree for a far lesser period of time as the virus does not replicate as readily in their body, they carry far less viral load, due to an absence of symptoms they sneeze & cough less also minimising transmission. 

Ultimately, unvaccinated people with symptoms contribute to the spread of SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 to a far greater degree than those who are vaccinated. 

Vaccination significantly reduces the probability of developing symptoms. 

 

Wrapping it up...   vaccinations are imperfect, no vaccination offers 100% protection from illness, but they do offer a high percentage of protection.

 

A vaccinated person still does not want to be unnecessarily exposed to SARS-CoV-2 because there is a possibility that they fall within that small percentage for whom the vaccine is ineffective. 

 

There are also people who for medical reasons are unable to take the vaccine, thus when considering the the population on a whole, vaccinated people (and anyone) may consider that these people also need protection through herd immunity, i.e. with more people vaccinated in a community there is reduced possibility of spread of SARS-CoV-2 through that community, thus potentially protecting those unable to protect themselves through vaccination. 

 

 

 

 

[Ryan754326]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Slightly incorrect: While vaccinated people ‘can’ transmit the SARS-CoV-2 virus after exposure, they do so to a far lesser degree for a far lesser period of time as the virus does not replicate as readily in their body, they carry far less viral load, due to an absence of symptoms they sneeze & cough less also minimising transmission. 

Ultimately, unvaccinated people with symptoms contribute to the spread of SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-19 to a far greater degree than those who are vaccinated. 

Vaccination significantly reduces the probability of developing symptoms. 

 

Wrapping it up...   vaccinations are imperfect, no vaccination offers 100% protection from illness, but they do offer a high percentage of protection.

 

A vaccinated person still does not want to be unnecessarily exposed to SARS-CoV-2 because there is a possibility that they fall within that small percentage for whom the vaccine is ineffective. 

 

There are also people who for medical reasons are unable to take the vaccine, thus when considering the the population on a whole, vaccinated people (and anyone) may consider that these people also need protection through herd immunity, i.e. with more people vaccinated in a community there is reduced possibility of spread of SARS-CoV-2 through that community, thus potentially protecting those unable to protect themselves through vaccination. 

 

 

 

 

We’re seeing reports of an increasing number of cases among vaccinated people, and there is mounting evidence that vaccinated people who are infected can have similar viral loads to those who are unvaccinated, and can still spread the virus to others as well.  
But you’re right, that the vaccines offer a high level of protection against serious symptoms and death, so the vaccinated shouldn’t have much to worry about. 
 

It’s looking like these vaccines may not be capable of getting us to herd immunity, so people are eventually going to have to learn to live with covid, and be satisfied with the protection they get from being vaccinated. The people who refuse vaccines will be accepting greater risk to themselves, but judging by these latest studies, they shouldn’t be any more danger to others than a fully vaccinated carrier would be. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/30/1022867219/cdc-study-provincetown-delta-vaccinated-breakthrough-mask-guidance

[248900_1469958220]

21 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

We’re seeing reports of an increasing number of cases among vaccinated people, and there is mounting evidence that vaccinated people who are infected can have similar viral loads to those who are unvaccinated, and can still spread the virus to others as well.  
But you’re right, that the vaccines offer a high level of protection against serious symptoms and death, so the vaccinated shouldn’t have much to worry about. 
 

It’s looking like these vaccines may not be capable of getting us to herd immunity, so people are eventually going to have to learn to live with covid, and be satisfied with the protection they get from being vaccinated. The people who refuse vaccines will be accepting greater risk to themselves, but judging by these latest studies, they shouldn’t be any more danger to others than a fully vaccinated carrier would be. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/30/1022867219/cdc-study-provincetown-delta-vaccinated-breakthrough-mask-guidance

Fair points. I am eagerly awaiting treatments becoming available for this virus. I fail to understand why, in some countries people are sent home after getting a positive test, with nothing and being told to go to the hospital if they cant breathe....while in other countries they are successfully treating people. I dont like the idea of being sent home with nothing but a promise to take care of me if the sh*t hits the fan......

 

There needs to be more info about treatments. It does seem however though that discussion of such things as Ivermectin is being discouraged or even completely censored.  

[248900_1469958220]

Seems its....catching...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/15/carnival-cruise-covid-19-outbreak-27-vaccinated-people-test-positive-for-coronavirus/?sh=75d55d46320f

[MrJ2U]

Go ahead.

 

Then go get vaccinated.

[Skallywag]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:07 AM, placeholder said:

 

"95% of the severe patients are vaccinated". "85-90% of the hospitalizations are in Fully vaccinated people." "We are opening more and more COVID wards." "The effectiveness of the vaccine is waning/fading out" (Dr. Kobi Haviv, earlier today on Channel 13)

 

welovetrump.com has the full story.  Enough said

[248900_1469958220]

Why does collating information such as this put someone on the 'Trump train'? I have no allegiance to Trump or that buffoon Biden. I simply want to push back a bit at the 'absolutely everything is rosy with the vaccines' camp. It seems information that isnt sanctified by the mainstream media/ govt cabal is...at best ignored and at worst censored. I am gobsmacked at the lack of critical thought being shown on all this by people who, I used to think were capable of logical thought processes. 

 

The vaccines are as yet not FDA approved. They are in a 'trial' process. I think being able to question them is a good thing.....Will I get vaccinated?? I will probably have to ,and at that point i will do it.  I am just taking an interest in ALL aspects of the implementation of this mass vaccination process.....offering a bit of pushback against the torrent of info that is spewed out daily from Boomertube. 

[Jeffr2]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:07 AM, Ryan754326 said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/30/cdc-study-shows-74percent-of-people-infected-in-massachusetts-covid-outbreak-were-fully-vaccinated.html

 

• About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated, according to new data published Friday by the CDC.
• The new data, published in the U.S. agency's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people.

 

 

 

 

A deeper dive into this will show why it's misleading.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Why does collating information such as this put someone on the 'Trump train'? I have no allegiance to Trump or that buffoon Biden. I simply want to push back a bit at the 'absolutely everything is rosy with the vaccines' camp. It seems information that isnt sanctified by the mainstream media/ govt cabal is...at best ignored and at worst censored. I am gobsmacked at the lack of critical thought being shown on all this by people who, I used to think were capable of logical thought processes. 

 

The vaccines are as yet not FDA approved. They are in a 'trial' process. I think being able to question them is a good thing.....Will I get vaccinated?? I will probably have to ,and at that point i will do it.  I am just taking an interest in ALL aspects of the implementation of this mass vaccination process.....offering a bit of pushback against the torrent of info that is spewed out daily from Boomertube. 

So Pfizer will probably be fully approved in a few weeks. I guess when that happens your objections to it will cease.

[248900_1469958220]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

So Pfizer will probably be fully approved in a few weeks. I guess when that happens your objections to it will cease.

Lets wait and see on that one. Very little surprises me with this whole thing. What if its not? 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, 248900_1469958220 said:

Lets wait and see on that one. Very little surprises me with this whole thing. What if its not? 

It will be. Guaranteed. And it is not in trial. Don't post misinformation. It's an emergency authorization and went through all stages properly.

 

Here's a Great piece from Trump's main man. You need to read it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/opinion/covid-vaccine-safety.html