Should Pattaya Embrace Segregation?

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, chrissables said:

Wrong.

 

Why do you think you injecting drugs that have not passed the usual standards of safety give you the right to make other people follow you like sheep?

 

Scientists how been proven wrong so many times, you do know that i presume.

Ahh, your true colours - an ardent anti vaxxer.

 

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I prefer to rely on what's happening in the real world when making my decisions - I don't put any faith in fairy stories.

 

The vaccines have transformed life in my home country (the UK) - the delta variant is infecting more and more people and most of them are un-vaccinated.  Its the un-vaccinated that are making up the majority of hospitalisations and sadly, deaths. Yesterday we had 37,000 new infections and 120 deaths - back in January, that many new infections would have resulted in around 1500 deaths. Just under 80% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

 

Things feel almost back to normal here and unless a vaccine resistant variant comes about, I expect that to continue.

 

I've had my vaccine and I won't be subject to any segregation - you are fully entitled to refuse to be vaccinated but expect to face consequences for that decision.  If you live in Thailand you might find that by next year, if you leave the country, you won't be allowed back in again.

 

You may also find it difficult to leave when airlines start imposing restrictions - why should the rest of us have to sit in a metal tube for 12 hours with people who choose not to get vaccinated?

 

You might also be interested to learn that at least one of the vaccines has now received full approval in the US - expect more to follow.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, chrissables said:

Then quarantine yourself. Simple 

I don't need to.  Up to you what you choose to do but don't moan when restrictions are placed on you.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, papa al said:

Natural immunity.

None of would be here without it.

So none of us should have been vaccinated - we should have just waited to get the virus and taken our chances?  Have you any idea how many people were dying pre-vaccine.

[KhaoYai]

For those of you who think segregation won't happen - the UK has just announced that people attending nightclubs and other events with large crowds will need to be fully vaccinated by the end of the month.

 

Other countries already have similar bans and more will follow suit - for sure:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57893788

Edited September 5, 2021 by KhaoYai

[jak2002003]

40 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Ahh, your true colours - an ardent anti vaxxer.

 

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I prefer to rely on what's happening in the real world when making my decisions - I don't put any faith in fairy stories.

 

The vaccines have transformed life in my home country (the UK) - the delta variant is infecting more and more people and most of them are un-vaccinated.  Its the un-vaccinated that are making up the majority of hospitalisations and sadly, deaths. Yesterday we had 37,000 new infections and 120 deaths - back in January, that many new infections would have resulted in around 1500 deaths. Just under 80% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

 

Things feel almost back to normal here and unless a vaccine resistant variant comes about, I expect that to continue.

 

I've had my vaccine and I won't be subject to any segregation - you are fully entitled to refuse to be vaccinated but expect to face consequences for that decision.  If you live in Thailand you might find that by next year, if you leave the country, you won't be allowed back in again.

 

You may also find it difficult to leave when airlines start imposing restrictions - why should the rest of us have to sit in a metal tube for 12 hours with people who choose not to get vaccinated?

 

You might also be interested to learn that at least one of the vaccines has now received full approval in the US - expect more to follow.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

2 thirds of the people hospitalised with the delta variant of covid 19 in the UK have been double vaccinated!

 

You think life is back to normal when nearly 1000 people A DAY are hospitalised in the UK with the virus and people needing operations and treatment for other health problems are still waiting as the hospitals are backed up with covid patients.

 

I suggest you dont get lulled into a false sense of security and do some research.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by jak2002003

[frantick]

Watch out what you wish for, fearful experimental vax takers. As we all become exposed and infected by this nasty virus, the unvaccinated recovered are 13 times less likely to contract it again vs the vaccinated. Google Israel 13 times, I'm not your momma. Preprint, not fully peer reviewed yet.

 

What this means it's that about next year at this time, more of you vaxxers will be sick than those of us choosing natural immunity. Yes, I know, I could be dead, but that's a separate argument.

 

So next year's admittance to your special event could be for unvaccinated only. "Obama, can I come?"

[Tanomazu]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

For those of you who think segregation won't happen - the UK has just announced that people attending nightclubs and other events with large crowds will need to be fully vaccinated by the end of the month.

 

Other countries already have similar bans and more will follow suit - for sure:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57893788

"If Keir Starmer’s party declined to support the vaccine passports plan, the government could face defeat in the House of Commons, with some Conservative rebels suggesting up to 40 colleagues would be willing to vote against it."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/08/employment-rights-offer-uk-immunity-to-mandatory-workplace-covid-jabs

 

Let's wait and see.

 

When they put it in place for supermarkets and rail travel we'll have segregation. It won't happen however. For selected entertainment venues at most.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, frantick said:

Yes, I know, I could be dead, but that's a separate argument.

Then I would go with that one!

[Ralf001]

Someone posted on FB they were refused entry to KFC because they could show proof of vaccination.

[Hugh Cow]

On 9/5/2021 at 12:55 AM, Tanomazu said:

Whether you're happy with anyone's decision is really irrelevant. You are creating red-herring arguments devoid of any substance.

 

I never implied you were trying to get everyone vaccinated. If you had the ability to read posts in a nuanced manner you would realise that in fact I was illustrating that there are limits to what states can do, not you obviously since I'm well aware you can do nothing. The point was, and I will try to clearly illustrate it since you have spectacularly missed it:

 

1)  Health is a private matter in law. The state can not force everyone to be vaccinated. So whether you like it or not there will be millions of people who will not get vaccinated.

 

2) Your ostracisation fantasies notwithstanding if you live in a civilized state with the rule of law, those who are not vaccinated can not and will not be treated differently, except in extremely limited circumstances for extremely limited periods of time. Because they pay taxes like everyone else. So they and their children will have access to schools, cultural institutions, hospitals, all the places they help finance. The state could only treat those who are not vaccinated differently for a very limited period of time, the time that a discriminatory measure would be justified. However, such a measure would have to have benefits that would justify the discrimination, it would have to be proportionate to the risk and furthermore there has to be a concrete and specific reason for the discriminatory measure. I would not get my hopes up for your Vaccination Apartheid land if I were you.

 

As was pointed out 51% of the vaccinated got infected with the Delta variant in one study. So the scientific basis for any discriminatory measures against unvaccinated is not really established.

 

You're trying to "right the sinking ship and get it back on course"? I think you suffer from some Napoleon complex or such, but if you were doing that, which you aren't obviously, you're certainly doing a terrible a job.

 

We all know that the hysteric doomsday scenarios painted by some "experts" have not come to pass. What's more those experts never saw this crisis coming and did not prepare us for it. Besides, you put 10 of those experts in one room and you get 11 opinions.

 

Your belief in lockdowns being the cause of why the many overblown doomsday scenarios did not come to pass is an example in point, there are completely differing opinions by the "experts" as to the effectiveness of lockdowns. What is clear is that in the real world we have Sweden, which has had no hard lockdown yet now has close to 0 deaths from Covid per day.

 

You're the one who had brought up the histrionic argument that the benefit of the many automatically takes precedence over the rights of the few. That argument was put forth by the Nazis to justify Eugenics, killing the disabled etc, however, this is not the case in democratic nations with the rule of law. Just because it is your belief that the unvaccinated are a "detriment" to society does not mean that their legal rights are automatically overruled. Maybe in your ostracisation fantasy you would like that to happen, but I am afraid in the real world you'll just have to live with unvaccinated people.

We have anti smoking laws that "infringe" on "smokers rights". Children require vaccination certificates for MMR and  other diseases to participate at school.   Anti vaxxer thinking would not have had near eradication of smallpox possible.  We need to look no further than the Bubonic plague in the 14th century to see what a disease can do when people are not vaccinated, yet some still think their rights include a right to infect others.

In many countries there is such a thing as "A duty of care". In cases where someone has been found negligent in this they can be sued and in some cases gaoled. I would think knowingly putting others at risk without taking reasonable steps to prevent this would constitute a breach of duty of care and these people should be held liable for the consequences of that act. In Australia it is a criminal offence in some circumstances to infect someone with a notifiable disease. Covid 19 is a notifiable disease. The good news is nature will eventually cure the anti vaxxer problem. The bad news is it's taking too long.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

2 thirds of the people hospitalised with the delta variant of covid 19 in the UK have been double vaccinated!

Source?

 

4 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You think life is back to normal when nearly 1000 people A DAY are hospitalised in the UK with the virus and people needing operations and treatment for other health problems are still waiting as the hospitals are backed up with covid patients.

How many people are actually in hospital? People leave hospital every day too.  How many people were in hospital and how many were dying last year when we had no vaccine?

 

I am currently undergoing cancer treatment, there has been no delay whatsoever. I have 2 friends in the same position - their treatment is ongoing too.  Whilst it is inevitable that something has to give at some hospitals, those with life threatening conditions are receiving treatment - at least they are in my area.

 

Life is almost back to normal for me, my family and all those that I know, yes. We all go to work, I go to the supermarket, hardware shops, etc. and as my wife is here at the moment, we've just been away for a short break in Scotland, - yes I'd say that life for me and mine is pretty much back to normal. Apart from still choosing to wear a mask, the only thing that isn't back to normal is not being able to visit my wife in Thailand normally but I expect that once Thailand gets its act together with vaccines, that will be resolved.  Having been fully vaccinated, I fully expect that I will be able to travel freely to Thailand but there's a very good chance that those who refuse to get vaccinated won't.

 

I've been listening (with total disbelief) to people like you since the Pandemic began - 'Its a Plandemic, created by governments to control us.' 'The vaccine is being spread by the 5G network.' 'The vaccines are killing people.' 'The vaccines contain microchips that track us'...................bla bla bla.

 

The one thing I've learned from this Pandemic is just how pathetically stupid some of my fellow men are. You all twist figures to suit your cause and quote from some official looking 'professor' or clinician who after a little investigation turns out to either be a fake or has been struck off - like the master of them all - Andrew Wakefield.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/18/how-disgraced-anti-vaxxer-andrew-wakefield-was-embraced-by-trumps-america

 

And I'm living in cloud cuckoo land?

Edited September 5, 2021 by KhaoYai

[chrissables]

5 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Ahh, your true colours - an ardent anti vaxxer.

 

Well you're entitled to your opinion but I prefer to rely on what's happening in the real world when making my decisions - I don't put any faith in fairy stories.

 

The vaccines have transformed life in my home country (the UK) - the delta variant is infecting more and more people and most of them are un-vaccinated.  Its the un-vaccinated that are making up the majority of hospitalisations and sadly, deaths. Yesterday we had 37,000 new infections and 120 deaths - back in January, that many new infections would have resulted in around 1500 deaths. Just under 80% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

 

Things feel almost back to normal here and unless a vaccine resistant variant comes about, I expect that to continue.

 

I've had my vaccine and I won't be subject to any segregation - you are fully entitled to refuse to be vaccinated but expect to face consequences for that decision.  If you live in Thailand you might find that by next year, if you leave the country, you won't be allowed back in again.

 

You may also find it difficult to leave when airlines start imposing restrictions - why should the rest of us have to sit in a metal tube for 12 hours with people who choose not to get vaccinated?

 

You might also be interested to learn that at least one of the vaccines has now received full approval in the US - expect more to follow.

Ahh, your true colours - an ardent anti vaxxer.

 

No, not at all, anti compulsory vaxxer under threat of of persecution for not taking a vaccine that has not passed the worldwide standard that new drugs are subject to.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by chrissables

[chrissables]

5 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

For those of you who think segregation won't happen - the UK has just announced that people attending nightclubs and other events with large crowds will need to be fully vaccinated by the end of the month.

 

Other countries already have similar bans and more will follow suit - for sure:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57893788

They will re think that for sure.

[GinBoy2]

On 9/3/2021 at 9:32 PM, MrJ2U said:

There's is evidence of that unfortunately.

 

"It cites a combination of recently obtained, still-unpublished data from outbreak investigations and outside studies showing that vaccinated individuals infected with delta may be able to transmit the virus as easily as those who are unvaccinated."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

 

I think it's important to get vaccinated to avoid overcrowding hospitals and death.

 

nightmare virus!

Unfortunately my fully vaccinated (Pfizer) wife just became one of those breakthrough statistics.

 

Went down with covid pneumonia pretty bad, but as the Doc said being vaccinated it'll be fine just gotta tough it out. 

 

Well she's well on the mend now, of course I, also fully vaccinated have also have tested positive but without any symptoms.

 

Now which one of us got it first and passed it to the other, just can't tell

Edited September 5, 2021 by GinBoy2

[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Your Yellow Fever example is of course completely disingenous, it merely requires anyone who HAS Yellow Fever not to come into the country.

Your entire post is inaccurate but its getting tedious replying - lets just single out the above.  People from high risk areas DO require a vaccination certificate to enter Thailand.  Or do you wish to argue with these:

 

https://www.iamat.org/country/thailand/risk/yellow-fever

 

https://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/travel-clinic/travel-vaccinations-for/asia/thailand

 

https://www.thaiembassy.ch/Content/Embassy/70.html

 

 

It's complete a waste of time arguing with Covid deniers and anti vaxxers.  You can show them scientifically proven facts, even laws and they will deny them.

 

The original post was about segregation/vaccines - let's re-visit in 18 months and see how things have panned out.

Edited September 5, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

13 minutes ago, chrissables said:

They will re think that for sure.

Please post when they DO.

[James105]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Sorry, don't understand any of that.  I have no intention of stopping smoking and I don't see how stopping smoking would make me 'less scared of covid'. I do not impose my smoking on others.

 

My concerns about 'other people's medical choices' as you put it have EVERYTHING to do with me if those choices put me at risk.

 

Smoking is a choice - being put at risk by others is not.

I find it fascinating that someone who inhales toxic poison by choice on a daily basis is lecturing other people on their health choices.   I guess it is quite rare for you to be on soapbox lecturing others about health so you just want to give it a go and see what it feels like?  

 

Ps - I can smell peoples smoke even wearing a facemask outdoors (which means I am also inhaling it) so let's not pretend your poor health choices do not affect others.    

[papa al]

6 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

[UK] Just under 80% of the population have been fully vaccinated.

 

Things feel almost back to normal here and unless a vaccine resistant variant comes about, I expect that to continue.

What % vaccinated here?

 

When I read your posts I think:

Dunning -Kruger

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by papa al

[Lucky Bones]

MRJ2U/Fairynuff

Do you not understand that not everyone can safely risk a jab?

My wife has a medical condition and has been medically advised (not by facebook) not to be jabbed. She and I are not "anti-vaxxers".

We are just trying to live our time.

Yes, I have been jabbed and waiting for 2nd.

My part of trying to keep the family/village safe or away from hysteria.

 

 

 

 

[Fairynuff]

12 hours ago, Sudarut said:

You should look up the definition of a vaccine.  If whatever you had injected doesn't provide immunity, then its not a vaccine.  And there are no "anti vaxers" no one cares how many "vaccines" you pump into yourself and your children, your just parroting catch phrases from the MSM. 

And you haven’t even mentioned Bill Gates or 5G yet.

[Sudarut]

3 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

And you haven’t even mentioned Bill Gates or 5G yet.

feeling a little insecure are we?

[smedly]

12 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

I would say the people using up medical resources are the unhealthy selfish people who have made poor lifestyle choices,

you would say Mr Perfect

[Lucky Bones]

Robblok. Where do you get your information from?

Amazing!

[Lucky Bones]

Wow! I created something that went 5 pages.

I am in awe!

It's good to be a Newbie.

[Lucky Bones]

Long Time Lurker

 

Yes, it would be good if they read the OP.

Perhaps they would understand the meat in the message.

[johnnybangkok]

As reported today:-

 

 

[Fairynuff]

4 hours ago, Sudarut said:

feeling a little insecure are we?

Odd thing to ask, but not at all

[Tanomazu]

7 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Your entire post is inaccurate but its getting tedious replying - lets just single out the above.  People from high risk areas DO require a vaccination certificate to enter Thailand.  Or do you wish to argue with these:

 

https://www.iamat.org/country/thailand/risk/yellow-fever

 

https://www.nomadtravel.co.uk/travel-clinic/travel-vaccinations-for/asia/thailand

 

https://www.thaiembassy.ch/Content/Embassy/70.html

 

 

It's complete a waste of time arguing with Covid deniers and anti vaxxers.  You can show them scientifically proven facts, even laws and they will deny them.

 

The original post was about segregation/vaccines - let's re-visit in 18 months and see how things have panned out.

From your own link:

 

"The World Health Organization announced that as of 11 July 2016, countries can no longer require travellers to show proof of re-vaccination or a booster dose as a condition of entry."

 

"A vaccination waiver can be issued by your medical practitioner if the Yellow Fever vaccine is contraindicated for medical reasons."

 

https://www.iamat.org/country/thailand/risk/yellow-fever

 

Sure, Thailand could in theory go vaccination-only-travel regarding Covid, but since its own people can hardly get the vaccine we both know that's unlikely to happen. As their recent readiness to open Phuket etc to the unvaccinated clearly shows.

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, James105 said:

I find it fascinating that someone who inhales toxic poison by choice on a daily basis is lecturing other people on their health choices.

I'm lecturing no-one - I'm simply sayin that no matter what your feelings on vaccines may be - segregation to a greater or lesser extent is coming. Indeed its already started in some parts of the world.

 

So you believe you still inhale the fumes of smokers - do you object to that?

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Sure, Thailand could in theory go vaccination-only-travel regarding Covid, but since its own people can hardly get the vaccine we both know that's unlikely to happen.

No we don't 'both know' - I believe it will happen but as I have already said - it will happen once the majority of the population is vaccinated.

 

And by the way, the WHO is simply posing a view. They have no power to re-make a country's entry policy.  Thailand requires those from high risk Yellow Fever countries to be vaccinated - that is the law.

Edited September 6, 2021 by KhaoYai