What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[phetphet]

4 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

The reality is that people who have money will always comes first in Thailand, no matter who you are or where you come from. And that includes Thai people.

 

 

 

 

 

Not just here. Even in Europe it is possible to "buy" a passport or residence with the right amount of money or investment.

[tomacht8]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Does your country allow jobless foreigners to stay for 20 years without proving their source of income etc? 

I assume you are not working, as if you had been, there are ways to get proper status here. 

In my country a Thai married with a local, get after 3 Year EU passport, local voting right, can open independent business, can own property in own name, free health insurance, social welfare money in cases of jobless time and free schooling for a new job.

Edited September 15, 2021 by tomacht8

[DavCurtis]

This is an interesting one. 
The hurt is real 

[candide]

3 hours ago, Misty said:

Hopefully you're correct. However, some have been watching the current gyrations going on with Malaysia's "My Second Home" (MM2H) program.  Reportedly after Malaysia hired KPMG as advisor, the gov't announced a plan to change the MM2H program by increasing the requirements. substantially.  Not surprisingly, there was a huge expat outcry by those who'd purchased homes and made a life in Malaysia, and the changes have been at least temporarily put on ice.

 

But it's been suggested that Thailand may be trying to do something similar with its McKinsey & Co advised "wealthy expat" program, albeit in stages.  At least the Thai program seems so poorly thought out there will be few takers. Still, that's not much comfort if the ultimate intent is similar to Malaysia's.

 

 

 

The comparison is quite interesting. It looks like, while the Thai scheme is aiming at attracting more Chinese people, the scheme in Malaysia is aiming at preventing too many Chinese to come.

[vandeventer]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes sir, it's been Money first, last and always, and when the ATM dries up many move on to the next one. The same for this government.  If you can not help the government then they will not help you...ergo brown envelopes.

I think if the are looking for a better class of people the rich ones are not the way to go especially a million of them. You think we hurt your feelings, they will want improvements from day one.

[Fairynuff]

Oh here we go again. It’s being on a loop listening to this drivel again and again. When will these fools learn that their target audience are watching another channel. They’re not interested.

Focussing on the foreigners you already have here, spending money and supporting their families and communities doesn’t fill the pockets of the politicians.

[Smithson]

21 minutes ago, Pravda said:

The real nastiness was always towards backpackers, English teachers and other younger "tourists" who were perceived like some kind of threat to old folks and their, you got it, Issan bargirls, so please spare me a bit for not feeling sorry for a bunch of dumbdums who sold off everything in their home country that basically gave them a good, privileged life to come to third world Thailand and marry a prostitute.

I agree with almost everything you've written, but not all retirees supported the backpackers crack down. It was a bad policy, wealthy countries want backpackers. They spend a lot because they stay so long. 

 

Rich people didn't get that way by giving up their money. 

[Rookiescot]

Not sure about allowing foreigners to own land in Thailand. If they open that floodgate the Chinese will have bought the place up within a week.

They should at the very least get rid of the 90 day reporting though. Its pointless. Only people here with a valid visa do it. So it catches no-one who is not legal.

For most its a waste of a morning but for some its a two hour drive each way to the nearest immigration office.

[Misty]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

The comparison is quite interesting. It looks like, while the Thai scheme is aiming at attracting more Chinese people, the scheme in Malaysia is aiming at preventing too many Chinese to come.

Yes, could be.  Or both may be just aimed at upping the wealth level of those who do come - regardless of from where.

 

[jerrymahoney]

39 minutes ago, Smithson said:

It's still illegal, many government schools here hire teachers illegally as it's easier than getting a WP.  The system that allows some to get away with things while others can't is something Thais often complain about.

So it sounds like the current proposals aren't what you think they should be. Maybe next time.

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

In my country a Thai married with a local, get after 3 Year EU passport, local voting right, can open independent business, can own property in own name, free health insurance, social welfare money in cases of jobless time and free schooling for a new job.

How many Thai male retirees marry young wiman from your country? 

If there were hundreds if thoudands, do you think they would change the current laws? 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Not sure about allowing foreigners to own land in Thailand. If they open that floodgate the Chinese will have

The law was implemented actuakky ti stop Japanese buying the country. 

[Neeranam]

28 minutes ago, phetphet said:

Not just here. Even in Europe it is possible to "buy" a passport or residence with the right amount of money or investment.

Which counties? Certainky not the UK. 

[DaveSamutP]

4 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Oh here we go again. It’s being on a loop listening to this drivel again and again. When will these fools learn that their target audience are watching another channel. They’re not interested.

Focussing on the foreigners you already have here, spending money and supporting their families and communities doesn’t fill the pockets of the politicians.

Exactly.

 

They will come to Thailand to visit, taste the local fare (living and cooked), and go back to where they don't risk dying by random electrocutions, auto accidents, food poisonings or schemes targeting their wealth.

 

Thailand should be suitable for a few categories of people with varying levels of wealth:

• Western young nomads, digital types, etc. (pseudo-expats)
• Western senior level professionals (expats)
• Western retirees (immigrants)
• Singaporean Chinese retiree immigrants escaping their demanding, expensive women
• Hong Kong Chinese retiree immigrants escaping their demanding, expensive women
• Russian, Chinese, Easter European (and a smaller percentage of others) criminals who want to spend their wealth with nobody looking

Almost nobody else really wants to retire in Thailand.

[reptile91602]

I've spent over a million dollars here and get nothing for it in return except a comfortable place to live with my Thai wife. But I have to go through the same nonsense that every other falang goes through. I have waited nearly 30 years for that to change. One day I plan to sell my place and take all the money to another country.

[Fairynuff]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

the Chinese will have bought the place up within a week.

Don’t you think they’ve already done that?

[LosLobo]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

How many Thai male retirees marry young wiman from your country? 

If there were hundreds if thoudands, do you think they would change the current laws? 

My ex wife's husband aka "my brother" became a "Thai male retiree" when I unknowingly joined the  ménage à trois.

[Fairynuff]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Which counties? Certainky not the UK. 

Are you kidding? One word for you.... Russians. Another word for you..... Chinese.. Yeah I know, that’s two words.

[crazykopite]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

I recently looked at retirement options in the Med, countries like Spain Greece Portugal - they are quite inviting

Especially Portugal 

[Johnny Mac]

2 hours ago, Kadilo said:

6 months in Thailand and 6 months in their home country seems to be achievable for many and ticks most of the boxes. 

I've seen this said so many times down the years but I have  never known a single person who done this or does it. Not one. 

 

It wouldn't be for me anyway, it would give the impression of not really knowing what you want. You're either an expat or you live in your home country, it's one or the other. make your mind up. Also, there will be without doubt one country you prefer than the other and if in the other one you will be counting the days down to go back. It's actually a ridiculous notion, which is no doubt why I've never known a single person that does it., and never will.

[EricTh]

 

Let's face the reality!

 

Thailand doesn't want foreigners who spend 30-40 baht for one plate of rice and argue over 10 baht for taxi fares.

 

Thailand might raise the bar for visa approval requirements in the future......

 

Malaysia has already raised its bar for their MM2H program. Many people won't be able to renew their visa in Malaysia

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by EricTh

[Jimbo2014]

Would also be nice to discuss the misogynistic marriage laws.  Have a thai wife and thai child.... congrats - its harder to get an annual visa than a retirement visa and good luck getting a stake in any investment in the country (property etc.).

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

Don’t you think they’ve already done that?

Not in the way it has happened in countries like Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar.

My understanding is there are places in those countries where the locals are not allowed to go. Entire towns full of casinos owned by the Chinese, run by the Chinese, staffed with Chinese and only Chinese customers.

[EricTh]

5 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Would also be nice to discuss the misogynistic marriage laws.  Have a thai wife and thai child.... congrats - its harder to get an annual visa than a retirement visa and good luck getting a stake in any investment in the country (property etc.).

 

Likewise, retirement visa is more difficult to extend than education visa (in 'learn Thai' classes) with no financial requirements and no attendance requirement, go figure.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by EricTh

[Boarn]

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Which counties? Certainky not the UK. 

Malta and Cyprus.

[Smithson]

4 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Likewise, retirement visa is different to extend than education visa with no financial requirements and no attendance requirement, go figure.

 

And hardest of all is the non B and accompanying WP. This doesn't help investment or efficiency.

[cmarshall]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

From what I am told you get a retirement type visa and claim to be retired, with no income other than savings and investment income, which is the bare minimum for a visa. And you use the ATM's to pull out alot of your monthly cash. No income tax ever needs to be paid. Have friends doing exactly that. Why would you want to pay income tax, if you do not have to? Always do anything you can to defy the authorities, to whatever extent possible. It is so much fun. 

It's not that simple.  Your friends might be committing tax fraud, not my idea of fun.

 

How much tax will I pay if I retire to Greece?

Greece has introduced a retirement income tax of 7%. To qualify, applicants must not have been tax resident for at least 5 of the previous 6 financial years. Also, applicants must receive their pension from a country in a double taxation agreement with Greece.

After you have applied for the alternative tax regime, the 7% tax rate will become effective the following tax year and will last for 15 years. After that, you will pay normal Greece tax rates on your income.

 

https://expatra.com/guides/greece/living-in-greece-the-expats-guide/#How_much_will_I_pay_in_taxes_in_Greece

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If a Thai retiree wants to live in the USA, he must invest 16,000,000 baht, yet USA retirees here moan about just SHOWING 800,000 baht ONCE a year at immigration. 

 

Then there are people who circumvent the 800k baht requirement by hiring agents and bribing some immigration officers.

 

This will only cause immigration to raise the financial bar in the future. Malaysia has already raise its bar.

 

[wensiensheng]

 

4 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

The reality is that people who have money will always comes first in Thailand, no matter who you are or where you come from. And that includes Thai people.

 

 

 

 

 

Isn’t that pretty much the same the world over? Maybe it’s more subtle in some countries but in most it’s pretty much in your face.

Edited September 15, 2021 by wensiensheng

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

It's not that simple.  Your friends might be committing tax fraud, not my idea of fun.

 

How much tax will I pay if I retire to Greece?

Greece has introduced a retirement income tax of 7%. To qualify, applicants must not have been tax resident for at least 5 of the previous 6 financial years. Also, applicants must receive their pension from a country in a double taxation agreement with Greece.

After you have applied for the alternative tax regime, the 7% tax rate will become effective the following tax year and will last for 15 years. After that, you will pay normal Greece tax rates on your income.

 

https://expatra.com/guides/greece/living-in-greece-the-expats-guide/#How_much_will_I_pay_in_taxes_in_Greece

Who'd want to retire to Greece? It's a failed country with crumbling health care.

 

Or Malta, the mafia state, or Cyprus that weird Turkish/Greek mafia enclave?

 

Are people seriously considering moving to these places?