How long do high-rise concrete structures last?

[LarrySR]

The sudden, catastrophic collapse of a Florida condo got me thinking?

 

How long before these older Bangkok towers begin to fail I wonder? A boom in high rises began in the 1990s in Bangkok and the designs, building techniques and inspections may be questionable.

Cracks in concrete are common and all too often, maintenance is neglected or deferred. Many condos have swimming pools located on higher floors and they could be leaking under the deck for decades without anyone noticing.

Would the condo maintenance staff, management or co-owners board of directors even know what to look for or be aware if their building was on the verge of collapse?

Are there any city regulations demanding scheduled inspections by structural engineers?

 

In Florida recently the deterioration of a pool deck is suspected of trigging the collapse of a 30 year old condo tower. Decades of water penetrating the rebar weakened the towers foundation, triggering a deadly failure of the structure.

Washington Post wrote a comprehensive article detailing the failure of management, board of directors and city after repeated warnings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../pool-deck-condo-collapse/

 

Pictured below: Alarming concrete spalling at Lake Green Condo, Bangkok (built 1997) near 15th floor pool structure, possibly caused by unseen water leaks, poor drainage and years of persistent exposure to weather.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[bkksteve123]

I used to live in Lake Green Condo (in the picture) back when Bangkok was still fun! 

 

I would not be surprised if several Bangkok condos experience the same fate as in FL within 10-15 years. Hopefully they are able to find the issues and evacuate or fix it in time.

[Pedrogaz]

Depends on how big the bribe was.

[Delight]

 Ingress of water is the enemy of concrete structures.

It is essential that a  condo is repainted .

Every 10 years.

With good quality paint.

The basic construction of a condo is 'Column and Slab'.

Bricks are used to 'fill in the spaces'

That brickwork is prone to damp-on the inside.

These areas need to be inspected -I would suggest on an annual basis.

If damp is visible -then the more than a paint job is required.

The source of the ingress needs to be identified and dealt with.

 

 I would never purchase a condo with a high level pool.

The building will move. Just a little bit. Water is heavy. The concrete base  could crack.

 

 

[Jenkins9039]

If one falls, the land price has likely risen, so you can just collectively sell your plot, and buy somewhere else (further out from the city), chances are the appreciation offsets any actual loss...

[cucme]

Fact is that concrete deteriorates after 50 - 55 years. Excess of water or not, starts weakening even in dry conditions.

[LongTimeLurker]

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

[3NUMBAS]

rusty rebar is always there crumbling from t he inside

[Gottfrid]

Probably until they can´t rise to the occasion no more.

[Liverpool Lou]

57 minutes ago, Delight said:

I would never purchase a condo with a high level pool.

The building will move. Just a little bit. Water is heavy. The concrete base  could crack.

Water is heavy but concrete is heavier.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[Delight]

18 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Water is heavy but concrete is heavier.

 Your point being?

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, Delight said:

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Water is heavy but concrete is heavier.

 Your point being?

Well, you seem to be unhappy with water being in a condo building because of it's weight yet you're happy with the weight of the much heavier concrete being there.   What was your point about water being heavy?

[Almer]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

Ah, but Stonehenge isn't premixed and poured, Stonehenge was dragged, from where i know not i got bored listening to the teacher.

[digger70]

10 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, you seem to be unhappy with water being in a condo building because of it's weight yet you're happy with the weight of the much heavier concrete being there.   What was your point about water being heavy?

I would say it's the volume of the water from the pool ,normally that amount of weight wouldn't be there ,It's the Extra weight put up on the building that can cause the trouble How much water does the pool hold /10/20/30 thousand Litres  every Litres is 1 KG so say that the pool hold 20000 Litre that's an extra 20 Tonne

I would say that makes a hell of a difference .

[Pravda]

Look at hotels like banyan tree and Crowne plaza built by japanese decades ago. Then turn around and have a look at any Thai condo 5 years or older. What do you see?

[kwonitoy]

26 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, you seem to be unhappy with water being in a condo building because of it's weight yet you're happy with the weight of the much heavier concrete being there.   What was your point about water being heavy?

Concrete is structural, water is not

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, digger70 said:

24 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, you seem to be unhappy with water being in a condo building because of it's weight yet you're happy with the weight of the much heavier concrete being there.   What was your point about water being heavy?

I would say it's the volume of the water from the pool ,normally that amount of weight wouldn't be there ,It's the Extra weight put up on the building that can cause the trouble How much water does the pool hold /10/20/30 thousand Litres  every Litres is 1 KG so say that the pool hold 20000 Litre that's an extra 20 Tonne

I would say that makes a hell of a difference .

How would it make a difference?  The pool's being there would, obviously, have been considered during the design of the building, wouldn't it?   It hadn't just been slipped in there hoping no one would notice.

[Liverpool Lou]

Just now, kwonitoy said:

27 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, you seem to be unhappy with water being in a condo building because of it's weight yet you're happy with the weight of the much heavier concrete being there.   What was your point about water being heavy?

Concrete is structural, water is not

The presence of a pool is taken into consideration during the structural design of a building isn't it?

 

By the way, my original comment was a little tongue in cheek.

[Cake Monster]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

Yes they are, but the one thing they all have in common, is that they are not made from Man made Concrete.

Having seen some of the " Sludge " expelled from the Concrete Trucks here in Thailand, I would question the very structural makeup of much of the Concrete used in Construction.

Maybe its different on Large Condo projects Etc, but I have never even seen a slump test performed, and much of the Ready Mix stuff seems to be very high in Water content

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

They're made from stone, not a loose mix concrete on a Thai budget.

[sawadee1947]

.....depends how many brown envelopes had been involved....

To be honest I'm happy to live in my Bungalow.....????

[mikebike]

2 hours ago, Delight said:

I would never purchase a condo with a high level pool.

The building will move. Just a little bit. Water is heavy. The concrete base  could crack.

Hmmm... a cubic metre of concrete weighs 2.5 times what a cubic metre of water weighs. Without leaks, high story pool is no issue whatsoever.

[jobsworth]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:58 PM, jazzdog32095 said:

No cellphone in 10 years. I intend to bi-pass the smart phone for the soon to be mandatory micro-chip embedded in the frontal lobe.  

 

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

Stonehenge was extensively rebuilt in about 1902. Many of the fallen stone pillars were set upright in concrete. So what you see today is not that old,

Greek, Roman and Egyptian structures are built of stone and suffer only minor earthquake damage.

[jethro69]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Well some of those condo structures at Stonehenge are still standing, as well as a load of old Greek, Roman and Egyptian ones.

Yes, but those we are talking about were build by Thai engineers. ????

 

[jazzdog32095]

The Miami collapse was mostly design failure then maintance followed by construction defects. Rebar exposed to water and oxygen expands 8x its' diameter blowing away surrounding concrete. It was built in 1988 so 30 years would be the time for a complete review of any structure similar. Personally I would never consider living in a 20 year old condo.

 

[treetops]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Hmmm... a cubic metre of concrete weighs 2.5 times what a cubic metre of water weighs. Without leaks, high story pool is no issue whatsoever.

You wouldn't put an extra 100 tonne tub of concrete on top of your building but it's OK for water.

[matchar]

Most condo swimming pools are very shallow so I think the weight is not that significant. Leaks from a saltwater pool could be an issue though.

 

I believe the main cause of the Miami collapse was saltwater corrosion from it being near to the sea. So that shouldn't be an issue for Bangkok condos.

[treetops]

15 minutes ago, matchar said:

Most condo swimming pools are very shallow so I think the weight is not that significant.

20m x 5m x 1m deep = 100 tonnes of water.

[matchar]

4 minutes ago, treetops said:

20m x 5m x 1m deep = 100 tonnes of water.

And each floor of the building probably weighs a few thousand tonnes so it's not that significant.

[natway09]

I live in a 25 year old condo, with a beautiful pool buy before the days of space saving, ie,

the pool is on the ground. On checking the concrete pillars & structural beams the reo is nearly twice the size of present day Hi rises & the concrete (in the structural pillars  is close to undrillable.

All the fill in walls are only the small bricks but totally non load bearing & just to keep the weather & neighbours out.

It will last another 50 years for sure without an earthquake, God forbid