Government makes bold move to woo wealthy, highly skilled foreigners

[pedro01]

7 minutes ago, itsari said:

Good idea , Thailand need highly trained electricians and plumbers . That would be a good start . This would help the local labour to become more efficient at what they do .  

Yes - this would actually be fantastic.

[itsari]

4 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

The simple answer is "everyone is different". Different people like different things. 

 

I am relatively wealthy, certainly way above the levels they are targeting. I live in Thailand because I like it. That is the same for most. There is no "one size fits all" wealthy person that will make the same decision on everything. That's as dumb as saying all Black people or Thai people are the same. Wealthy is not a personality type.

 

As for wine prices - the fact Chateau Neuf Du Pape is 6,000 Baht a bottle is basically a 'feature' of Thailand. Cost of living and taxes is different in different countries. I would imagine most people get that food and property are cheaper, cars and wine more expensive - and it all balances out at the end of the day.

 

There is no burden to living here. There are simply papers that your lawyer fills in for you - among other things. These are burdens for poor people that have to do stuff like visas themselves.

Thailand needs skills not rich people . Bag of money is not creating a future for the youth and future  of  Thailand .

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, kickstart said:

It is a Thai thing this degree, thay think you have a degree, you can do anything ,you are the best ,and that degree will carry you though life. 

I come to Thailand as a volunteer working with Thai dairy farmers ,the people that said to me  you must have a Batchers degree, no, I just have 2 years day release ,and a general agriculture certificate ,plus one year at Agriculture collage ,the fact I have 25 years practical experience  does not seem to count. 

And that degree must be in the subject that you are going to work in ,how many people now days that  are still doing they precent job , is related to the degree they did say 20 years ago. 

Multitasking is still a lot of years away from Thailand. 

Single tasking to 100% completion is also unusual.

[poskat]

"Highly skilled professionals from overseas could impart training to Thais"

 

I was recruited to a major university to do just this

 

my reward has been having to do 90-day reports, yearly visa extensions/work permit renewals, pay taxes while experiencing the beloved dual pricing system here, and being accosted on the street by the cops more than a few times about what I was doing and going.

[The Cipher]

18 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

The points I am trying to make are:

- why would digital nomads want to buy property in Thailand?

- why would they want to park $500,000 in government bonds in exchange for a 10-year visa?

- why would they be concerned with applying for work permits or paying "the same income tax as locals"? (my acquaintance assured me that he never bothered with work permits nor income tax payments ANYWHERE he went)

12 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Thanks, and yes - I fully agree - I was merely focusing on the aspect of the government's wishful thinking, where the nomad banging his/hers tent pegs or poles more permanently into Thai soil...????

You guys are focusing on semantics too much. Replace 'digital nomad' with 'remote worker' and you may start to see the appeal.

 

There are a lot of newly remote professionals due to Covid. And a lot of what Thailand has to offer is appealing to them, believe it or not. And I think I would know lol - I'm one of them, as are many of my friends.

 

To address some of your points so that you know how people will evaluate these:

• Nothing in the known text stipulates a minimum amount of time that needs to be spent in Thailand. It's basically a free pass to come and go as you please. Effectively it turns Thailand into a regional base with extremely minimal required commitment on behalf of the visa holder (Group 3 applicants);
• Groups 2-4 don't actually seem to require a land purchase or any investment in the country. Not 100% sure about this for Group 2 (the 'or $80,000' line is a bit unclear). But anyway, unlike the Elite visa these can be picked up for virtually zero liability. At worst you turn cash into some other asset on the balance sheet;
• 17% flat tax is attractive. I could see some people changing their tax residences to take advantage of the offer, particularly given the low qualifying requirements relative to other lower-tax jurisdictions. I'm reasonably sure some bright people will actually find a way to declare tax residence in Thailand while earning abroad and end up paying effectively 0% income tax. Please message me if you figure out how to do this;
• For HNWI looking to diversity RE holdings, the visa rights allow them market access while basically providing an additional residence perk for something they wanted to do anyway.

---

Now that I've typed this I sorta want to delete before posting lest the authorities read it and decide they were too generous with the terms lmao. But otoh it might be educational for this audience so I'll post and hope for the best.

[timendres]

They will get a few thousand takers. A million? 555

[Longwood50]

21 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

There is no burden to living here. There are simply papers that your lawyer fills in for you - among other things. These are burdens for poor people that have to do stuff like visas themselves.

What you say is true however this thinking that somehow Thailand is the end all and that wealthy people from around the world are just clamoring to enter is self aggrandizement.   Money goes to where money is treated well.   The fact is that Thailand has done much in recent years to discourage foreigners from residing here.  

Proposed rules now include including special "covid insurance"  Many persons already have insurance that covers them in Thailand.  While the additional burden may not dissuade some, the fact remains the more hurdles, and cost you burden people with wealthy or not, the fewer you will get. 

This idea that somehow that loosening the rules on home ownership, making wine and cigars cheaper will provide the irresistible lure to come to Thailand versus other choices is just ludicrous.  Thailand better look in the mirror and like the queen in Snow White who chanted "mirror mirror on the wall who know is the fairest one of all" and get the honest answer that Thailand for all its charm is not the sole destination that wealthy expatriates have and throwing them a few bread crumbs will not have them standing in line to sit in quarantine to enjoy it. 

[Hockeybik]

Shushssss... don't tell anyone that more than 20 of the worlds richest tech billionaires never graduated college let alone have masters degrees. 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Good idea , Thailand need highly trained electricians and plumbers . That would be a good start . This would help the local labour to become more efficient at what they do .  

Well jollyhangman , it is not funny when you are visited by a well trained Thai electrician or plumber and things go wrong .

[Airalee]

Where will interest rates be in 3-5 years?

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, bojo said:

Jeez, that's some analogy.....can't see David Attenborough telling it like that!!!

He had to clean it up for the Beeb, some people can't handle the truth.

[DaveSamutP]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

More "pupa" visas - you are the pupa. Think of how a wasp catches a larvae and brings it to feed its brood, once they have sucked out all the goodness the empty exoskeleton is discarded.

 

 

This is exactly right.

 

The problem with Thailand is that it's simply a low quality country from a variety of perspectives. Very few seriously successful people would choose to be based in Thailand. There are some, but not may. 

 

Great place to have fun. Terrible place to work, invest or expose your wealth to in any significant way. There is also a HUGE stigma associated with telling any self-respecting person that you're based in Thailand.

 

They'll get 5 or 6 "digital" guys who want to spend a couple years partying and playing hide the sausage with farm girls. Maybe 9 or 10 gray haired blokes with income generating investments. Not much else.

[Sydebolle]

Clean up your country, your politics, your attitude towards anything non-Thai and apply common sense when dealing with "high skilled alien dirty farang" (™30 or 90days spring to mind) before using big words 

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Thanks, and yes - I fully agree - I was merely focusing on the aspect of the government's wishful thinking, where the nomad banging his/hers tent pegs or poles more permanently into Thai soil...????

There probably will be some "banging" and "pegging" from those digital nomads during their short stays in Thailand, but that's about as much as the government can expect from them. 

[mokwit]

19 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

There probably will be some "banging" and "pegging" from those digital nomads during their short stays in Thailand, but that's about as much as the government can expect from them. 

The Govt is expecting full Intellectual Property and knowhow transfer in return for being able to stay here without reporting every 90 days [like they would in the South of France or BVI or Bahamas etc], which it seems they expect to be achieved in 5-10 years after which the pupa is discarded.

Edited September 24, 2021 by mokwit

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

You guys are focusing on semantics too much. Replace 'digital nomad' with 'remote worker' and you may start to see the appeal.

 

There are a lot of newly remote professionals due to Covid. And a lot of what Thailand has to offer is appealing to them, believe it or not. And I think I would know lol - I'm one of them, as are many of my friends.

 

To address some of your points so that you know how people will evaluate these:

• Nothing in the known text stipulates a minimum amount of time that needs to be spent in Thailand. It's basically a free pass to come and go as you please. Effectively it turns Thailand into a regional base with extremely minimal required commitment on behalf of the visa holder (Group 3 applicants);
• Groups 2-4 don't actually seem to require a land purchase or any investment in the country. Not 100% sure about this for Group 2 (the 'or $80,000' line is a bit unclear). But anyway, unlike the Elite visa these can be picked up for virtually zero liability. At worst you turn cash into some other asset on the balance sheet;
• 17% flat tax is attractive. I could see some people changing their tax residences to take advantage of the offer, particularly given the low qualifying requirements relative to other lower-tax jurisdictions. I'm reasonably sure some bright people will actually find a way to declare tax residence in Thailand while earning abroad and end up paying effectively 0% income tax. Please message me if you figure out how to do this;
• For HNWI looking to diversity RE holdings, the visa rights allow them market access while basically providing an additional residence perk for something they wanted to do anyway.

---

Now that I've typed this I sorta want to delete before posting lest the authorities read it and decide they were too generous with the terms lmao. But otoh it might be educational for this audience so I'll post and hope for the best.

Sure, the first 3 items can be more easily had with an elite visa tho and there's nearly zero paperwork involved. The 90 day reporting is a non issue outside of Covid due to frequent travelling.

 

 

4th point is what would me make apply for these IF they offer unrestricted land access in a place that I choose without strings attache, this could even be limited to a max size of land a la 10 rai.

If this is only for approved building projects from Thai developers it's entirely useless, at least for me.

 

I can't see that last point happening, so I am not so hyped up about this at all - I hope I am wrong tho.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wolf81]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

You know based on the criteria outlined in the article, this looks like a pretty good visa option. 10 year validity with no annoying reporting and revenue outside Thailand exempted from taxation? Nice! I really think I'll apply for this.

 

I still think that letting foreigners own land is a mistake, but if they insist then I guess it would be a shame not to oblige them.

They should at least put some limits on land size owned by foreigners - and perhaps they do. Say max 1 rai, maybe even less. Might also need to think of some inheritance ruling, maybe after foreigner dies and if descendants or significant other is not Thai, force them to sell to Thai people within 5 years.

 

Apart from the land ownership possibility, I think the deal is a bit crappy. Other countries give a permanent citizenship or even passport (valid for life) for this or less money: https://www.goldenvisas.com/country

[mokwit]

10 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

They should at least put some limits on land size owned by foreigners - and perhaps they do. Say max 1 rai, maybe even less. Might also need to think of some inheritance ruling, maybe after foreigner dies and if descendants or significant other is not Thai, force them to sell to Thai people within 5 years.

 

Apart from the land ownership possibility, I think the deal is a bit crappy. Other countries give a permanent citizenship or even passport (valid for life) for this or less money: https://www.goldenvisas.com/country

It strikes me as less than competitive. Thailand expecting to deal 100% on its terms as usual. They have been very lucky with that so far - starting with Thailand for a while being the cheapest labour option, cheapest "2week James Bond" option - they misguidedly expect to be able to dictate the terms going forward.

[newnative]

I'm not seeing anything 'bold' here.  

[Tropposurfer]

Thank the gods ! This will preclude most of my family then

[HappyExpat57]

Thailand has been beating this dead horse for some time now. They keep trying to put lipstick on a pig and shouting to the world, "Come invest in us! Don't look behind the curtain, just give us your money."

 

"If you build it, they will come." If you create a healthy environment that is apparent to all wise investors, you won't have to "scheme" or "lure" them in.

Hello? Is this thing on? Hello?

[tonray]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

How do you woo people that are well off enough to live a great life anywhere in the world ?

 

 

 

Where else can you get fermented paddy crabs in your salad ?

[digger70]

Government makes bold move to woo wealthy, highly skilled foreigners . 

 

I think that most people that are Well off and have the funds that they require for this Visa  wouldn't be interested to waste their time and money in Los.

But then there are always some that Do.

Edited September 24, 2021 by digger70

[tonray]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Government makes bold move to woo wealthy, highly skilled foreigners . 

 

I think that most people that are Well off and have the funds that they require for this Visa  wouldn't be interested to waste their time and money in Los.

But then there are always some that Do.

You're going to be filtering for 'well-off' riff raff unfortunately. Most well off respectable retirees/expats would likely settle somewhere else given resources to do so....unless...unless...they have questionable methods and means of acquiring that wealth/income. In the USA you're going to get lots of interest if and when you plunk large sums in a bank ...here not so much. For example, even renting a condo/apartment in the US requires a credit and security check as standard practice...here...just sign a lease and transfer a depost and you're in. Lots of folks from China and other areas of the world with the means to pay but can't risk using that loot in many places.

[Rampant Rabbit]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

How do you woo people that are well off enough to live a great life anywhere in the world ?

 

 

 

You  lie, theyre  experts  at  that, and  only  that

[The Cipher]

6 hours ago, wolf81 said:

Apart from the land ownership possibility, I think the deal is a bit crappy. Other countries give a permanent citizenship or even passport (valid for life) for this or less money: https://www.goldenvisas.com/country

But that's not true tho. Based on the text in the original article, groups 3-4 definitely have a path to this visa for materially zero outlay. Group 2 might also have a path for zero investment, but the text is less clear. I agree that in general a passport is the gold star, but 10 years for minimal cost is pretty darn good.

 

Adding to that, every country at your Golden Visas link is outside Asia, which is fairly significant.

---

 

As a general statement just reading the negative responses on this thread it's obvious that a lot of the pessimists don't understand how capital and/or talent will evaluate these options, or they are just finding reasons to vocalize that they want the program to fail.

[Dont confuse me]

12 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

How do you woo people that are well off enough to live a great life anywhere in the world ?

 

 

 

Easy:- Woo Woo, Woo Woo woould you like to live in a developing country with an unstable government...

[BangkokReady]

10 hours ago, itsari said:

Thailand needs skills not rich people . Bag of money is not creating a future for the youth and future  of  Thailand .

I can't imagine attracting skills on anything other than a short-term basis if they are too scared to allow foreign people to own a house and the land it sits on (along with the other xenophobic attitudes).

 

10 hours ago, poskat said:

"Highly skilled professionals from overseas could impart training to Thais"

 

I was recruited to a major university to do just this

 

my reward has been having to do 90-day reports, yearly visa extensions/work permit renewals, pay taxes while experiencing the beloved dual pricing system here, and being accosted on the street by the cops more than a few times about what I was doing and going.

It's like they expect to just suck the skills out of you without really giving you much in return.

 

People dropping years of their life, or relocating long-term, (if they have "in demand" skills) should be treated in a way that makes them want to actually commit.

 

It's fine to say "we don't want you here long-term, we'll pay you for your work, when you're done, you can leave", but there are countries that will say "bring your skills to our country and we'll reward you with the same benefits as the locals and you will actually be able to build a life here".  Sure, Thailand can decide how to operate and I'm sure some people will still come, short-term, but people who are thinking about the future and want to put down some roots, will look elsewhere; and I believe it's the long-term people that will be the better investment for the future of Thailand.

Edited September 24, 2021 by BangkokReady

[BangkokReady]

7 hours ago, mokwit said:

"2week James Bond"

That's an interesting one.  I've heard "two week millionaire" before, but not James Bond.  Seems pretty apt.

[Albert Zweistein]

11 hours ago, The Cipher said:

I closed this thread but reopened it just to say that the more I think about it, the more I think that these visas are a good deal.

 

Groups 2 and 3 especially seem to offer great value. Group 1's not bad either.

 

If you guys genuinely don't think that there will be takers for these, I kinda think you just might not be the target demographic. Based on what's been revealed so far, these are pretty attractive.

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