UK continues its refusal to recognise vaccines administered in Thailand

[bkk6060]

It's like giving another country restaurant with questioned oversight, regulation, or health inspections a complicated meal recipe.

How can you be assured the recipe you provided was followed and the meal will be presented properly and cleanly without compromise?

Bottom line, the UK seems to not trust Thailand.  Maybe they are aware of some things that have not been made public.

Either way, at this point I doubt they will ever approve it.

Edited September 26, 2021 by bkk6060

[overherebc]

21 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I think it is the sheer disorganised way in which the campaign is conducted, and the lack of transparency.

 

For example, my first jab was Sinovac, the second was supposed to be AZ. The date of the second jab was changed several times, and then suddenly it was Pfizer, at 18 hours notice. When I got there, at the exact time and place they specified, nobody knew anything about me. I eventually was jabbed, but I had to throw a wobbly ( quite easy as I can only stand with crutches) as they kept me standing in front of a desk whilst three MOPH officials argued and took turns examining my passport page by page.

 

Couple this air of chaos with the Health Minister, no less, discussing alternative ways of injecting, and "getting more out of the bottle", yet not taking any responsibility for the decisions involved, along with the very limited testing and it is perhaps not surprising that their is a lack of enthusiasm for Thailand's claims?

 

These decisions are made after having carefully considered all the available information, both that which is in the public domain, and that which is kept out of the public domain. For example the situation surrounding Siam Bioscience's efforts to produce AZ vaccines, which is virtually (perhaps it actually is) a state secret here; if the UK authorities were unable to ascertain the situation, ( I imagine they probably have done) then they will assume a "worst case scenario", and decide accordingly.

 

The bottom line is that there are big red question marks against the conduct, planning and efficacy of the vaccination programme, along with testing and the actual as  against the expected, as announced or hoped for supply of vaccines. Hence the decision.

See my post just before yours ( 22 hours ago ) and you can apply your reasoning to how many of those??

Edited September 26, 2021 by overherebc

[david555]

Why still they are thinking they are a member states as before with free access as all other  27 ?...... ????

 

Now just any same  rule to follow as any other third country to enter E.U.  ..... same counts for E.U. nationals to pass U.K. border .

[herfiehandbag]

55 minutes ago, overherebc said:

See my post just before yours ( 22 hours ago ) and you can apply your reasoning to how many of those??

No I can't, because I ( like everyone else) do not know the criteria which the UK is applying to accepting vaccination. If, as I suggest the criteria which Thailand has failed to reach are in the areas of the way in which the process is being conducted: mixing vaccines, "stretching" the contents of the vials, refusal by the ultimate authority ( the Minister of Health) to accept any responsibility for "unconventional" methods of injecting the vaccines; then I assume that those countries which you mentioned have met those criteria.

[tomacht8]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:05 PM, cormanr7 said:

The issue of AZ produced in Thailand not being accepted goes far further than the UK. It applies also to the EU so will affect quite a lot of people here in Thailand (and other countries that have received locally produced AZ). It must be registered at the EMA as 'vaxzevria' . However, unlike the claim above for AZ produced in AUS and South Korea (as well as Japan), these are on the list of non-EU produced AZ accepted in the EU. This from the official Dutch Govt. site (these rules also apply to all other EU countries, though they can decide to go their own way).  https://www.government.nl/topics/c/coronavirus-covid-19/visiting-the-netherlands-from-abroad/requirements-for-proof-of-vaccination. 

Why Siam Bioscience has not registered AZ at the EMA is obscure, the example of South Korea shows that it is clearly achievable.   

Unfortunately, it is not uniform across the EU. For example in Germany is AZ made in Thailand approved.

 

Versions of EU-approved vaccines approved abroad (original or licensed productions) are equivalent to the mentioned EU-approved vaccines for proof of vaccination protection. For more information, please refer to the list below.

 

https://www.pei.de/DE/newsroom/dossier/coronavirus/coronavirus-inhalt.html;jsessionid=C9A2FE58903AA2021679E75E3E22907A.intranet212?nn=169730&cms_pos=3

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, herfiehandbag said:

No I can't, because I ( like everyone else) do not know the criteria which the UK is applying to accepting vaccination. If, as I suggest the criteria which Thailand has failed to reach are in the areas of the way in which the process is being conducted: mixing vaccines, "stretching" the contents of the vials, refusal by the ultimate authority ( the Minister of Health) to accept any responsibility for "unconventional" methods of injecting the vaccines; then I assume that those countries which you mentioned have met those criteria.

Like many I would like to hear the UK's reasons for the decision but it would most likely be 10 minutes of politically correct waffle that would confuse things even more.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

It wasn't a suggestion from you.You presented your collection of errors as facts.

 

The issue relates to certification of vaccines and Thailand is not an isolated instance.We await clarification from the UK government on the details.

I presented some possible reasons for why, in my opinion, Thailand has failed to meet the criteria set by the UK. before

 

You don't agree with them. Fine, that is absolutely your right. Ignore them then, but as I said before,  if you are going to issue a blanket dismissal of them as "complete rubbish" and "errors" you could offer alternative suggestions? 

[tomacht8]

9 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Like many I would like to hear the UK's reasons for the decision but it would most likely be 10 minutes of politically correct waffle that would confuse things even more.

May the reasons could be Thailand's silly announcements:

a.) not wanting to administer full doses,

b.) to inject the vaccine in other places and not as approved in the deltoid muscle of the upper arm.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

May the reasons could be Thailand's silly announcements:

a.) not wanting to administer full doses,

b.) to inject the vaccine in other places and not as approved in the deltoid muscle of the upper arm.

I would still like the uk gov' to state why in public. Then again I might fly to the moon tomorrow. ????

[jayboy]

59 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

I presented some possible reasons for why, in my opinion, Thailand has failed to meet the criteria set by the UK. before

 

You don't agree with them. Fine, that is absolutely your right. Ignore them then, but as I said before,  if you are going to issue a blanket dismissal of them as "complete rubbish" and "errors" you could offer alternative suggestions? 

The certification issue has been detailed in several posts over the last few days.We haven't yet been given the details.

 

I see you are now placing caveats and qualifications on your previous "explanation." It makes no difference:it is still mostly nonsense.

[Cake Monster]

20 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

I read that Spain doesn't recognise AZ vaccine in Thailand. They say it isn't approved by WHO

Extract 

Foreigners who are vaccinated against covid-19 can also enter Spain. For this, it is necessary to meet the following requirements:

 

• Have completed the complete vaccination schedule at least 14 days before traveling to Spain.

• Only vaccines authorized by WHO or by the European Medicines Agency (Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zeneca, Janssen, Sinopharma and Sinovac) are accepted. Astra Zeneca vaccines manufactured in Europe, South Korea and India are in principle accepted (they are approved by WHO), but not yet manufactured in Thailand by Siam Bioscience, which is not yet authorized by either the WHO or the AEM .

• The certificate can be written in Spanish, English, French or German.

• The certificate must include the name and surname of the applicant, date of vaccination and doses, type of vaccine and number of doses administered, issuing country and identification of the issuing body of the vaccination certificate.

Vaccination against covid-19 is not required for children under 12 years of age, as long as they travel accompanied by a vaccinated adult.

Here's what AZ have to say: 

https://www.astrazeneca.com/country-sites/thailand/press-release/travelling-with-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-made-in-thailand.html

This may be the largest issue with Vaccines not approved by the UK.

However, this statement only applies to the AZ Vaccine manufactured in Thailand, but not the other vaccines that the UK also do not recognize if administered in Thailand.

It does seem very strange that the AZ from basically all the sites around the Globe has been recognized, but not the AZ from Thailand.

Maybe there is a clerical hold up or incorrect paperwork submitted ...who knows?

 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

The certification issue has been detailed in several posts over the last few days.We haven't yet been given the details.

 

I see you are now placing caveats and qualifications on your previous "explanation." It makes no difference:it is still mostly nonsense.

In your opinion, if I could suggest a caveat or qualification.

[freedomnow]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

It's like giving another country restaurant with questioned oversight, regulation, or health inspections a complicated meal recipe.

How can you be assured the recipe you provided was followed and the meal will be presented properly and cleanly without compromise?

Bottom line, the UK seems to not trust Thailand.  Maybe they are aware of some things that have not been made public.

Either way, at this point I doubt they will ever approve it.

It's revenge for the exchange rate.....bring back 75 Baht to the £££££.

[MRToMRT]

Travel to UK from the rest of the world if you are fully vaccinated

 

From 4am Monday 4 October, you will qualify as fully vaccinated if you are vaccinated either:

• under an approved vaccination programme in the UK, Europe, USA or UK vaccine programme overseas
• with a full course of the Oxford/AstraZeneca, Pfizer BioNTech, Moderna or Janssen vaccines from a relevant public health body in Australia, Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados, Bahrain, Brunei, Canada, Dominica, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, Malaysia, New Zealand, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan or the United Arab Emirates (UAE)

 

Formulations of the 4 listed vaccines, such as AstraZeneca Covishield, AstraZeneca Vaxzevria and Moderna Takeda, qualify as approved vaccines.

 

You must have had a complete course of an approved vaccine at least 14 days before you arrive in England.

 

Where 2 doses of a vaccine are required for a full course, you will be able to:

• mix 2 different types of vaccine, for example Oxford/AstraZeneca and Moderna
• have the 2 vaccinations under 2 different approved programmes, for example Australia and Japan, UK and USA, EU and Canada

 

Until 4 October, mixed vaccines are only permitted if you are vaccinated under the UK, Europe, USA or UK overseas vaccination programme.

 

The rules for fully vaccinated people will also apply if you are either:

• under 18 and resident in the UK or one of the listed countries or territories with approved vaccination programmes
• taking part in an approved COVID-19 vaccine trial in the UK, Australia, Canada or the USA

If you qualify as fully vaccinated you will have to:

• book and pay for a day 2 COVID-19 test – to be taken after arrival in England
• complete your passenger locator form – any time in the 48 hours before you arrive in England
• take a COVID-19 test on or before day 2 after you arrive in England

 

Under the new rules, you will not need to:

• take a pre-departure test
• take a day 8 COVID-19 test
• quarantine at home or in the place you are staying for 10 days after you arrive in England

 

You must be able to prove that you have been fully vaccinated (plus 14 days) with a document (digital or paper-based) from a national or state-level public health body that includes, as a minimum:

• forename and surname(s)
• date of birth
• vaccine brand and manufacturer
• date of vaccination for every dose
• country or territory of vaccination and/or certificate issuer

 

If your document from a public health body does not include all of these, you must follow the non-vaccinated rules. If not, you may be denied boarding.

 

If you are fully vaccinated in the USA, you will also need to prove that you are a resident of the USA.

 

If you are fully vaccinated, but do not qualify under these fully vaccinated rules, you must follow the non-vaccinated rules.

[Rimmer]

Off topic rant dragging Brexit into the topic has been removed, also a reply

[VocalNeal]

Has anyone with a Thai vaccination certificate been refused entry?

[Doctor Tom]

My attitude to the UK authorities, fxxk em all.  No wonder I left that basket case of the dysfunctional country .  

[sandyf]

On 9/26/2021 at 3:39 AM, Rampant Rabbit said:

yeah i went thru all their stupid identify yourself  rigmarole for them to say my gp doesnt  use this system, why they dont  ask for  your  gp's surgery address  first and say they dont subscribe to it  instead of wasting your  time uploading vidoe and speech nonsense, planks

After being passed around several NHS depts, this is part of a response I received.

 

"At the moment vaccinations administered overseas are not currently captured in the UK vaccination database. As a result of this the NHS COVID Pass service is unable to generate the COVID Pass or Letter. 
 
The NHS is currently working on a solution to this issue; however, this may take some time and we thank you for your continued patience."

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

After being passed around several NHS depts, this is part of a response I received.

 

"At the moment vaccinations administered overseas are not currently captured in the UK vaccination database. As a result of this the NHS COVID Pass service is unable to generate the COVID Pass or Letter. 
 
The NHS is currently working on a solution to this issue; however, this may take some time and we thank you for your continued patience."

 

Spose I cant pass  "GO"   and collect 200  pounds either then????

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, Doctor Tom said:

My attitude to the UK authorities, fxxk em all.  No wonder I left that basket case of the dysfunctional country .  

and  arrived in another  one????

[Doctor Tom]

8 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

and  arrived in another  one????

Not all all. I can  buy food here, fill my car with petrol, see a doctor without delay and travel on a major motorway without it being blocked by lefty woke lunatics, just a few things that the UK find difficult.

[Robespierre]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:08 AM, Tropicalevo said:

There is a government online petition that you can all sign.

 

Not sure if the link is allowed - just in case it is

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/594456

This petition does not allow you to sign if based in Thailand

[Denim]

17 minutes ago, Robespierre said:

This petition does not allow you to sign if based in Thailand

Did for me. There is a box you have to tick at the top confirming you are a citizen of the UK. Make sure you tick that box or you won't be able to sign.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Denim

[MRToMRT]

5 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

No wonder I left that basket case of the dysfunctional country .  

I don't disagree with you, but a not bit out of the frying pan into the fire :+)

[Lancelot01]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:43 AM, keith101 said:

It may  have a lot to do with Thailand's continuing use of Chinas Sinovac and Sino pharm vaccines which i can fully understand .

Plus the fact that, although fully vaccinated, you can still contract and pass on the virus. 

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Not all all. I can  buy food here, fill my car with petrol, see a doctor without delay and travel on a major motorway without it being blocked by lefty woke lunatics, just a few things that the UK find difficult.

Ah, but you can't go watch a class game of football, to a pub,   a nightclub, put your kids in school or pay the same price as a local for something! It isn't all bad in the UK, else so many would not be trying to get in!

[relax33]

On 9/24/2021 at 12:04 PM, ben2talk said:

The point really is that AZ, Pfizer and Moderna are approved - but if they're administered in Thailand they aren't being accepted.

 

Frankly ridiculous... but for a country that still insists that you arrange to have a bank statement or mobile phone bill delivered to your home address by post as part of your verification (why - because your current passport isn't good enough?) before you can get a new passport it's hardly surprising.

 

y, wonder if they had seek advice from WHO (the rock band) rather WHO (the World Health Org) before coming to such a fabulous decision ...

The part about TL having less testing should be mitigated by the fact that a) PCR tests is still being done before n after the flight for folks flying in
b) TL is still fairly opened for business with temperature checks being required before entry to most places  ...  
Temp checks are  highly effective for detecting active covid
Being fairly opened for biz means its not that the covid nos r artificially depressed cos of some total lock down ..
N don't forget most folks in TL are naturally "super obedient" in wearing masks too

Talk is cheap  ... 
The litmus test is that if u ask UK bookmakers  to open bets on vaccinated folks from TL getting covid , i' m sure they will provide extremely low payouts on the possibility ... ha
 
N before folks jump in to say TL has done nothing right , do remember that TL was faring easily 20x better than the UK in terms of covid nos n deaths before the delta Variant arrived.

Testing can be more extensive in the UK but its not perfect or hugely encompassing either ..
If u look at the death nos being the more accurate indicator, TL has 128 vs 63 in the UK, that is respectable considering  TL is only 22% vaccinated compared to the UK 's 71%
Would not be surprised if TL eventually ends up having fewer covid deaths than the UK once its vaccination numbers r on par

[MRToMRT]

1 hour ago, relax33 said:

TL was faring easily 20x better than the UK in terms of covid nos n deaths before the delta Variant arrived.

According to official figures it still is faring better. 

[PREM-R]

12 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

According to official figures it still is faring better. 

Lies, damned lies, statistics and Thai official figures

[Doctor Tom]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Ah, but you can't go watch a class game of football, to a pub,   a nightclub, put your kids in school or pay the same price as a local for something! It isn't all bad in the UK, else so many would not be trying to get in!

Sorry but not interested in any of those things. Standing on a freezing terrace at Leeds as a 12 year old cured me of football forever, I  am not really a pub person and kids all grown up.  I do miss good draft beers though, but not enough to set foot in that sorry place again.