Have any of you teachers received the ultimatum yet?

[Expat Rob]

On 10/7/2021 at 9:39 AM, kingstonkid said:

The OPS question and stance is interesting.  The challenge that has been laid out here though is interesting and sounds like a lot of places.

 

First the vaccines as I have read do not prevent a person for getting covid they only minimize the affect.

Second, the argument that I should not have to get the vaccine is also true.  There is nothing to say anywhere unless yo work for the U.S. government you have to be vaccinated.  Hockey players are throwing away millions of dollars and in sme cases their careers because they do not want to get vaccinated.

 

Third, considering that the government has mandated that Matayom students will get vaccinated to return to schools then teachers should have realized that the other side of the coin is that teachers will have to be vaccinated.  

The government has not come out and said it but then again almost all Thais and Farang have been vaccinated willingly.

 

Fourth you sign a contract that states that you will abide by the school policies and rules.  Unfortunately it does not say what rules or when they can be created or enforced.

 

Finally as a teacher you may be able to convince the labour board that you are in the right (not so sure abut that)  but that only means that the school has to employ you until the end of your contract.  It does not say it has to have you teaching classes.  Therefore there is nothing saying they can not give you your own office in a broom closet and mandate you checking in at 730 and leaving at 4 each day and sit in your little room.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

 

It does help to prevent infection...

[Captain Monday]

One teacher friend in Chiang Mai, pretty dead set against vaccination was given the ultimatum but he was not willing to lose job and leave country over it. 

 

My deadline was last month. I'm not a teacher I am a pilot there is absolutely nothing my company can do about the entry requirements of sovereign nations and management won't be paying people to twiddle their thumbs at the airport. A small number are suing citing "religious objections" or other quixotic lawsuits. Imagine throwing away a USD $300,000 dollar plus career based on internet FUD pushed by people with an agenda to divide people for political reasons? I don't get it????

[stupidfarang]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:41 PM, 248900_1469958220 said:

Well, after A LOT of thought.....some anger....many many questions I freaking bit the bullet. I feel I have no choice. I am NOT happy with the whole virus situation and how its been handled. I think information is being suppressed. I dont think all is rosy with the vaccines....I chose to get Sinovac. The ladies were shocked....They had to check with someone "Farang mai yaak dai Pfizer"!!!! I have my reasons. I have left this decision till now. I have looked into all these vaccines as well as anyone with average/ slightly above average intelligence can ha!! I went with the traditional style vaccine, not new tech mrna. I asked if I can get Sinovac for my second and was told I can. They then asked what I would want for my booster!!! That's a step too far for me to be talking about lady.....

 

All I care about is that, in 2 months or maybe less IF and I mean IF kids go back I will be able to show their little 'fully vaccinated' card...or 'app' or whatever it is. I have thought about all alternatives, believe me. Again, I see no option.... I am not happy. I think boosters are inevitable but again, I am going to put that off as long as I can. The vaccines efficacy, even the bees knees Western vaccines seem to wane within months. Treatments, which should have been pushed for months ago may be available to us all if this actually does make any of us sick......

 

I will be getting shot number 2 in two weeks......What a world.

Stop complaining, you had a choice, either get the vaccine as per terms of employment or not that was your choice. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by stupidfarang

[stupidfarang]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:30 AM, zyphodb said:

I haven't had the ultimatum yet, but am half expecting it, however the director knows my views on experimental "vaccines" and may be pragmatic and not push it, as he should realise that his chances of getting another Native English speaking teacher to keep his English programme going in the backwoods of Isaan are pretty slim. Also he may not want to end up in the Labor courts for sacking me when he's the one who's broken the contract of employment...

Do you really think he would be worried about the labour courts? You really need to wake up to the reality of living here.

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

Do you really think he would be worried about the labour courts? You really need to wake up to the reality of living here.

"He" is who? That is the question. I doubt it will be done school by school. 

 

If there is to be a "teachers must be vaccinated" it will likely be from the very top.

 

I doubt very much the labour courts would take take a case against their own bosses.

[stupidfarang]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

"He" is who? That is the question. I doubt it will be done school by school. 

 

If there is to be a "teachers must be vaccinated" it will likely be from the very top.

 

I doubt very much the labour courts would take take a case against their own bosses.

He as in the head of the school, and as the OP stated "Also he may not want to end up in the Labor courts for sacking me when he's the one who's broken the contract of employment.." I agree the courts unlikly take a case against the government  and the new T&Cs when signing a teachers contract may carry vaccination is required to teach. Already some companies in the west are saying that being vaccinated is part of working in the future. Airlines is a classic example, all but two airlines in the USA say staff must be vaccinated and I would not be surprised that passengers may in the future have to show a certificate.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/10/03/major-us-airlines-vaccine-mandates/?sh=2ce2723c73d9

[theswoop]

Look into whether there is an exception for people who can show they already had Covid. I found that China accepts a previous positive PCR test as proof that people had Covid.

 

China may open up to teachers in March 2022. Worth thinking about. Avoid the agencies and go direct to schools to get the best deal. Look on the forums to see how people are doing this.

 

I am a pureblood. I will never accept any of these freak jabs.

[thaichina]

11 minutes ago, theswoop said:

Look into whether there is an exception for people who can show they already had Covid. I found that China accepts a previous positive PCR test as proof that people had Covid.

 

China may open up to teachers in March 2022. Worth thinking about. Avoid the agencies and go direct to schools to get the best deal. Look on the forums to see how people are doing this.

 

I am a pureblood. I will never accept any of these freak jabs.

If you think you are gonna be able to work in a school in China without being vaccinated, you are gonna have a big surprise. You will not be able to fly in. Let us know how it goes pureblood.

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, thaichina said:

If you think you are gonna be able to work in a school in China without being vaccinated, you are gonna have a big surprise. You will not be able to fly in. Let us know how it goes pureblood.

I thought China was getting rid of all the foreign teachers anyway.  Is that not the case?

[thaichina]

25 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I thought China was getting rid of all the foreign teachers anyway.  Is that not the case?

It s not as easy as before to teach in China. They are very careful now on who gets a working visa for teachhing and who doesn t. And forget about working without a work permit.

[thaichina]

3 minutes ago, PureBlood said:

 

 

https://t.co/cQ6qoDii9G

 

I am posting this for other people. There are many people who already had Covid, so they are fine to go to China without getting any jabs. I posted the link to the Chinese Embassy in London where you can see this written.

 

I already had Covid. I am not taking any of the mRNA jabs. Firstly, I'm not taking them on principle, as they are an unnecessary response to a mild flu. The endless boosters and digital surveillance "passport" are an over reach by government. Secondly, I don't want to end up with heart trouble associated with the mRNA jabs and I don't want to risk ADE when I'm exposed to Covid again. Thirdly, my natural immunity is better than the jabs.

Is that your source of information?

 

If you refuse the surveillance passport and reach over by governments, you are not gonna be happy in China.

You have your opinion on Mrna vaccines, and it s ok but I don t want to have any teacher who refuses to get vaccinated to be near my kid and I guess it s the same for chinese parents. It s not personal, it s just a fact.  And keep your BS about natural immunity for yourself please.

[cdemundo]

Foreign teachers in Thailand have kind of a sketchy reputation.

I used to wonder about that.

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, theswoop said:

Look into whether there is an exception for people who can show they already had Covid. I found that China accepts a previous positive PCR test as proof that people had Covid.

 

China may open up to teachers in March 2022. Worth thinking about. Avoid the agencies and go direct to schools to get the best deal. Look on the forums to see how people are doing this.

 

I am a pureblood. I will never accept any of these freak jabs.

Off ya go then LOL

You may need the jab for an extension of stay in future.

I hope so. 

[talahtnut]

On 10/7/2021 at 2:20 AM, Resident Alien said:

Please educate yourself properly:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/explainers

This is one thing I learn from your link.

'The whole process, from preclinical trial to manufacture,

can sometimes take over a decade to complete'.

See you in ten years hopefully.

[chessman]

a teacher who has weighed up the evidence on both sides and decided not to get vaccinated might also believe that evolution is a myth, the earth is flat and the word ‘dumb’ is spelled without a ‘b’.

 

They shouldn’t be teaching.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“ english ( language) teachers” TEFL types are a universal joke everywhere.

they will seldom admit their occupation.always broke trying to live beyond their means.

the job requires minimal quals / experience ( native english speaker ? yes . your hired….)

reputation is looking for free sex with the local women ( inc. their students)

they do well in this regard in Japan I understand but the S. Korean women run a mile ……..

[brewsterbudgen]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:37 AM, CM Dad said:

 

 

I am grateful that you are NOT my son's teacher.  As a parent I pay very high school fees at my son's private school - if you were employed there, I would insist that you be terminated.

Can a single parent have that much power and influence over which teachers are employed?  I'd love to know which expensive private school this is!  It's lovely that you're so concerned with the teachers' welfare, but if you're worried about your son, surely you should focus on getting him and your family fully vaccinated, rather than focusing on a single unvaccinated teacher!

[brewsterbudgen]

19 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“ english ( language) teachers” TEFL types are a universal joke everywhere.

they will seldom admit their occupation.always broke trying to live beyond their means.

the job requires minimal quals / experience ( native english speaker ? yes . your hired….)

reputation is looking for free sex with the local women ( inc. their students)

they do well in this regard in Japan I understand but the S. Korean women run a mile ……..

This has a degree of truth in Thailand (although I doubt the sex is ever free!), but TEFL in the UK and Europe doesn't provide as many opportunities to get together with the students.

[brewsterbudgen]

13 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I thought China was getting rid of all the foreign teachers anyway.  Is that not the case?

No, that's just for online teachers based outside China but teaching Chinese students.

[BangkokReady]

41 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“ english ( language) teachers” TEFL types are a universal joke everywhere.

they will seldom admit their occupation.always broke trying to live beyond their means.

the job requires minimal quals / experience ( native english speaker ? yes . your hired….)

reputation is looking for free sex with the local women ( inc. their students)

they do well in this regard in Japan I understand but the S. Korean women run a mile ……..

Might be the case for some in Thailand but other countries have quite different attitudes (and rates of pay).  It certainly isn't a universal attitude or reputation held everywhere.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

yeah….it is. Worked all over the world as Engineer. TEFL are the lowest general grade of teacher with matching reputation. Mostly LBH (Losers Back Home) with zero teaching quals and often no teaching experience. 

 

Now of course there are Great TEFL and Other Teachers with outstanding quals / experience / reputation. No Doubt.However this OP and Teacher Members Comment are not helping on the Teacher Reputation Front.

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

yeah….it is. Worked all over the world as Engineer. TEFL are the lowest general grade of teacher with matching reputation. Mostly LBH (Losers Back Home) with zero teaching quals and often no teaching experience. 

Perhaps you just met some really bitter and negative people who shared their opinions with you.

 

Actually, just noticed another post by you in this thread where you complain about over-educated people.

 

Is there a chance that perhaps anyone less educated than you is bad, while anyone more educated than you is bad also?  Perhaps you might want to look for the factor common to both these judgments.

Edited October 12, 2021 by BangkokReady

[ThailandPermanent]

Some balance from me (so double the flaming to come? haha)

I'd give myself a 5/10 on the scale of vaccine hesitancy. Basically "Meh, alright then. It's not like it's dangerous. I'm waiting for AZ though".

I'm getting the vaccine next week. Waited until AZ was available for my age group.  Probably would have done Pfizer or Moderna at a push, but can't be bothered waiting that long.

I won't call people antivaxxers, that's incredibly lazy, and I get that a chunk of people here are more anti-mandate as opposed to thinking the vaccine is dangerous.

However, some of the NoCOVIDVaxxers here are becoming what they hate. They are living a life utterly consumed by all of this, from morning to night. While I have huge sympathies in opposing the mandates, you may be on a path to Pyrrhic victory: no visa, no job, no nice Thailand life. 

 

Are you OK with that? do you have a backup option that's workable that you like? Not saying it's right (it's not in my opinion), but that's how it's looking. Only you lose out in that situation sadly, and you will have a horrible time finding an education job elsewhere. (The guy who posted about China. You need 2 x Sinovac/Sinopharm to get in. They will not let you in unvaxxed. No chance).

 

Again, not saying that's right, but you have to see the trajectory of this whole thing. After 18 months of all this, they likely aren't going to just leave you alone, especially in this sector. Likely the decision will be made from the very top, i.e the MOE/immigration.

"Well I'll wait until that's likely to happen". That's fine, but only if it's actually fine for you. Again, are you truly 100% happy gambling all of this over this principle? Do you have a workable backup option in place? Only you can truly answer that deep down. 

However, on the other side of this:
 

I really am perplexed by just how much people care about the vaccination status of the teacher. Some of the arguments are becoming as hysterical as some of the die-in-the-wool NoCOVIDVaxxers.

The chance of hospitalisation from COVID for a young person really is incredibly low.

 

It's so low, that it's  potentially in the same ballpark of vaccine side effects (which are laughably low, as you'd agree.... right?) [Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study]

Even then, the students are likely to have had vaccines offered to them before returning to class, with their parents/grandparents fully jabbed.

Plus mask-wearing will still be a rule in the  school, along with some distancing measures and maybe even face shields again.

Huge precautions will have been taken, so I'm perplexed why some are so absolutely terrified of perhaps three teachers not having had the jab. There'll be around 15% of students in the room who won't have had it either, too. Perhaps up to 100% if you go towards a younger age group.

But yeah, back to the NoCOVIDVaxxers. Shools/MOE/Immigration will not care even if the above has some logic to it, and the principle sucks

Make your choice

Also guys. Good rule in life: when someone does/says something that irritates you. Start off by thinking of three reasons why that person might have done it, that could be explained through good intentions (that may have not resulted). Just a better way to live life, then constantly thinking everyone is terrible

Anyway, have a nice day. Will probably come back to both sides being irritated.
 

Edited October 12, 2021 by ThailandPermanent

[Chad3000]

On 10/7/2021 at 2:14 PM, rbkk said:

Why can't parents access the Teacher Council of Thailand's database and check the licence and vaccine status of all teachers?

If they had the correct information they could.

[VinnieK]

I would consider a Sinovac (in case they refuse to renew my visa)

Never an MRNA 'v'

Btw...are hotels or apartment building managers starting to ask for 'v' proof?

OP... sorry for the slightly off-topic reply 

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies reported and removed.  Stay on the topic, please.

 

[scorecard]

On 10/8/2021 at 6:41 AM, mstevens said:

I respect your viewpoint, even if I personally disagree with it. What does make me wonder is what the students' respective parents would make of the foreign teacher who refuses to be vaccinated. My feeling is that this is not something many parents would readily accept and they might well put pressure on "Paw Aw" to pressure said foreign teacher to get jabbed, else find a new foreign teacher.

Seems to me there's another point. The relationship/closeness of the 'worker' and others in the various workplaces.

 

Teachers work in an environment where many times each day they are fairly close to their students and IMHO teachers should therefore be fully vaccinated.  

 

Seems to be reality that in many/most countries the total % of the population are getting 2 jabs (in the state of NSW, Australia over 92% of the population have had 1 jab and many additional folks getting first jab every day. Around 74% already have double jabs and that number rising quickly every day, estimated to go over 80% next Saturday/Sunday 16/17 October, and higher.

 

This appears to indicate for many professions/industries it's not difficult to find new fully vaccinated folks. At it will get even more easy to find fully vaccinated staff as the numbers of fully vaccinated citizens rises higher and higher.

 

The converse is that folks who refuse to get vaccinated will find they can't easily get employment. Their choice. The exception of course being folks who have a medical condition which clearly does mean vaccination could trigger a health crisis. In NSW these people are now required to carry a signed/verifiable document that they are exempt and soon available on their smartphone.

[robblok]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Seems to me there's another point. The relationship/closeness of the 'worker' and others in the various workplaces.

 

Teachers work in an environment where many times each day they are fairly close to their students and IMHO teachers should therefore be fully vaccinated.  

 

Seems to be reality that in many/most countries the total % of the population are getting 2 jabs (in the state of NSW, Australia over 92% of the population have had 1 jab and many additional folks getting first jab every day. Around 74% already have double jabs and that number rising quickly every day, estimated to go over 80% next Saturday/Sunday 16/17 October, and higher.

 

This appears to indicate for many professions/industries it's not difficult to find new fully vaccinated folks. At it will get even more easy to find fully vaccinated staff as the numbers of fully vaccinated citizens rises higher and higher.

 

The converse is that folks who refuse to get vaccinated will find they can't easily get employment. Their choice. The exception of course being folks who have a medical condition which clearly does mean vaccination could trigger a health crisis. In NSW these people are now required to carry a signed/verifiable document that they are exempt and soon available on their smartphone.

To be honest from a business point of view nobody wants to have antivaxxers in their business (unless they themselves are antivax)

 

Why would a business take the extra risk of infections (unvaccinated spread more then vaccinated) and why would a business take the risk of unvaccinated stay longer in hospitals. It all boils down to the fact that the choices of the antivaxxer negatively influence the business of people. 

 

Antivaxxers just make no sense. 

 

[rbkk]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:44 AM, chessman said:

a teacher who has weighed up the evidence on both sides and decided not to get vaccinated might also believe that evolution is a myth, the earth is flat and the word ‘dumb’ is spelled without a ‘b’.

 

They shouldn’t be teaching.

I would go further and say they are unnecessarily endangereing the health of the children they are supposed to be nurturing and protecting. Why is that not criminal?

[matchar]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

To be honest from a business point of view nobody wants to have antivaxxers in their business (unless they themselves are antivax)

 

Why would a business take the extra risk of infections (unvaccinated spread more then vaccinated) and why would a business take the risk of unvaccinated stay longer in hospitals. It all boils down to the fact that the choices of the antivaxxer negatively influence the business of people. 

 

Antivaxxers just make no sense. 

 

On the other hand would a business take responsibility if an employee suffers serious side effects or death linked to a vaccine they were forced to take?

 

I'm not anti-vax and I'm quite happy to take Pfizer if I'm eventually offered it but I'm not willing to take AstraZeneca since that one has a higher risk of very dangerous side effects, which in younger healthy people is similar to the risk from covid.

 

If I was old I would be more willing to take AstraZeneca because the risk from covid would be higher than the risk from the vaccine.