Life in Thailand getting back to normal – but only if you are vaccinated

[webfact]

BTS train station in Bangkok on October 4, 2021. (Photo by Jack TAYLOR / AFP)

 

If you haven’t had your COVID-19 jab yet, then your life in Thailand may be very different from those who have already been vaccinated. This is because of new “COVID-Free Setting” rules that bar unvaccinated people from accessing certain services.

 

From October 1, several businesses in strictly controlled zones reopened under tight COVID-Free Setting rules. Some gyms, for instance, have banned unvaccinated members from using their facilities.

 

“I know that without a vaccine, my life cannot return to normal,” said Kawin, who lives and works in Bangkok. Though nearly half of the Thai population has received the first shot and nearly a third have been double-jabbed, he has still not received a single dose. Millions of Thais are also in the same situation.

 

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Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/life-in-thailand-getting-back-to-normal-but-only-if-you-are-vaccinated/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-10-06

 

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[2long]

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies? It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

[John Drake]

Well, I've had three shots and have the all clear on the MOPH app on my phone. But my wife has had zero shots. And she is the one that travels, while I mostly stay home. She is saying she will not be able to get anything until November, because she is waiting for Pfizer and will not take AZ. 

[BKKTRAVELER]

To be fair, I haven't seen a place or business in Bangkok which asked for vaccination proof. I don't think they can afford to lose customers..

 

Granted, I haven't been to many places yet. Has anyone here been asked for vaccination proof by local businesses?

[cclub75]

It's pure fantasy...

 

Pure PR. Thailand wants to do like "grown up countries" (AKA western).

 

Old syndrome of inferiority.

 

So they take all the bad ideas coming from us, instead of doing their own things.

 

It's really pathetic.

 

But in anycase, this idea of "Covid pass" will never be widely used in Thailand... It's just impossible. From a practical point of view.

 

It might be used in a few district "show off" in Bangkok, for rich tourists, that's all. Good for the TV crews. But around the country ? Outside Bangkok ?

 

It's good to laugh.

[timendres]

Well, that is not "getting back to normal" is it?

At some point, this nonsense will pass.

[topt]

35 minutes ago, BKKTRAVELER said:

Has anyone here been asked for vaccination proof by local businesses?

No. A couple of the local golf courses have a form to fill in with columns to tick if vaxed and whether one or two. However if you leave blank nothing is said......

[richard_smith237]

49 minutes ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

Even with all the explanations on this forum and many many other sources, is this really still a struggle?

 

Think of it as a ‘bigger picture’ issue....

 

The mRNA vaccines reportedly have an efficacy of 95% against contracting Covid-19 (Pre-Delta variant figures), I’m not sure what the mRNA efficacy figures are against the Delta Variant (but they are less). Real world efficiency is also less than efficacy...  (efficacy measures against a healthy test group within a specific age range, where as efficiency is measured in the general population, full age ranges, health issues etc). 

 

Thus: IF the real world efficiency of the mRNA vaccines are 80% that means 8 out of 10 people exposed to SARS-CoV-2 who would otherwise have tested positive for Covid-19 do not test positive - they still carry the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but for a shorter period of time than some who tests positive for Covid-19 inside whom the virus is replicating. IF that person who tests positive for Covid-19 also presents with symptoms they are contagious for a longer period of time, they also sneeze, cough more than a someone without symptoms.

 

Even with vaccines of a far lower efficacy and real world effectiveness i.e. for arguments sake, 50% when millions of people have been vaccinated, thats half of millions of people who can spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus, for a shorter period of time and who do not present with symptoms. 

 

 

There is a sweet spot which is highly dependant on the R0 value of the virus, no one knows for sure what that sweet spot is, its also dependent on many social and environmental factors - population density and weather. 

 

That ‘sweet spot’ figure is likely to be less than 99% or 98%.... But when someone chooses not to vaccinate they do not know they are within a 1% or 2% of a population who refuse to get vaccinated and if sufficient numbers do not vaccinated the spread of the virus will continue at a greater rate with greater risk of evolution of the virus and a greater risk to everyone.

 

Thus: Those who choose not to vaccinate are a risk to the vaccinated because when in aggregate the numbers of  those who do not vaccinate exceeds the ’sweet spot’ at which the virus spreads and evolves, that evolution unmitigated presents greater risk for everyone - the only measures of mitigation we currently have are Isolation or vaccination. 

 

Its not just every vaccinated person who is at risk by other unvaccinated people, but in aggregate, every unvaccinated person is also at risk from other unvaccinated people.

 

The only change to any of this will be 100% effective vaccines or treatment which is effective against all variants of Covid-19 and prevents all illness, hospitalisations and deaths - i.e. treatment which renders Covid-19 completely moot. 

 

 

Quote

..until at some stage the smaller percentage will be a danger. But if, just if, that smaller percentage is something like 30%, then that's an unfair ratio of the majority effectively forcing their beliefs on the minority. 

I would assume that 80% of eligible adults are happy to be jabbed (as I have), so what's with people around the world being forced what they do with their bodies?

Because the ’sweet spot’ (as explained earlier) is unknown...  also simply put, IF you are carrying the virus because you have not vaccinated, you present a risk to the percentage of people who cannot be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine does not work. 

 

Quote

It's similar to being forced to wear a seatbelt while driving; doing so only protects the individual, so why should others get involved?

Its not similar at all - I am not at greater risk in a car accident because you drive past me without a seatbelt, yet walk past me or enter the same room with Covid-19 and I have a chance of contracting it - you have a greater chance of carrying it because you are unvaccinated. 

 

The seatbelt example is also highly flawed: You not wearing a seatbelt can lead to greater injury, government costs of treatment, loss of an earner for your family etc etc...  ‘others are protect’ in socio-economic stand point through you not being injured, killed, disabled through the protection of a seatbelt. 

 

 

Quote

Yes, I understand that a stupid person who gets sick or injured takes up hospital services, but that could be said for many other things in life, such as people with high-risk jobs.

Another highly flawed argument...  You have used people with ‘high-risk jobs’ are still doing jobs which are a necessity for ‘our’ standard of living. 

 

Perhaps you could compare leisure activities instead of high risk jobs (*which would be a better comparison) - but those doing ‘higher risk leisure activities’ do not present a health risk to others, where as not being vaccinated does. 

 

I’m not sure why analogies or comparisons are necessary - the distorts explanations to oversimplify to avoid the real issue... BUT... IF you really need a comparison - not getting vaccinated is like the passive smoking issue... your actions can have a health impact on innocent others unless you remain isolated. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by richard_smith237

[charmonman]

Is there a way for people who have been vaccinated outside of Thailand to get registered in the system, such as the droves of tourists they are expecting when quarantine restrictions are lifted?

[Saanim]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The mRNA vaccines reportedly have an efficacy of 95% against contracting Covid-19

When the news about the various vaccines started more than year ago, and about their efficacy %, we haven't been said there will be a number of the jabs. Or did I miss it?  

[connda]

54 minutes ago, BKKTRAVELER said:

To be fair, I haven't seen a place or business in Bangkok which asked for vaccination proof. I don't think they can afford to lose customers..

 

With small and medium businesses struggling not to go bankrupt, demanding vaccinations will be the mantra of the news media and government -  but the reality?  TIT - the reality will be something else. 

"Hey love, can I have another Heineken coffee?"
<bartender, errr waitress pour amber liquid from a green bottle into a coffee cup>

[ChomDo]

Seems to me like they've actually dropped the idea of restricting non-vaccinated that much after all. First there was talk about needing a vaxx passport to enter restaurants and malls. That seems to have been forgotten about. I know it would be complicated but still not a fan of seeing selfish anti-vaxxers getting away so easy. 

[JonnyF]

I'm double vaxxed with AZ and my life is nowhere near back to normal. 

 

I'm still walking around with a mask on 14 hours a day, it's difficult for me to visit friends around Thailand, I can't easily go to visit my family because the UK doesn't recognize Thai implemented vaccines, nightlife is completely dead and 4 hours ago I had a swab shoved about 3 inches up my nose, again.

 

Normal?

[simon43]

Here in Laos, I have to show my double-vax card to get into the bank....  No double-vax proof => no entry.

[JustAnotherHun]

...and still no reliable answer to what happens to expats who are vaxxed in their home countries on "the way to normal" - whatever "normal" should mean in Thailand.

Edited October 6, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[Bruno123]

Just now, ChomDo said:

Seems to me like they've actually dropped the idea of restricting non-vaccinated that much after all. First there was talk about needing a vaxx passport to enter restaurants and malls. That seems to have been forgotten about. I know it would be complicated but still not a fan of seeing selfish anti-vaxxers getting away so easy. 

 

Selfish anti-vaxxers? 

It's selfish to care about what goes into your body? What is wrong with you?

Getting away so easy? According to the scaremongers they are all going to die. As long as your are vaccinated; you aren't. So why the bitterness?

[ChomDo]

3 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

...and still no reliable answer to what happens to expats who are vaxxed in their home countries on "the way to normal" - whatever "normal" should mean in Thailand.

I was asking this for a long time, but there was no answer on how EU or US vax passport would be transferred to the local Thai card. I guess it won't matter much anymore since non-vaxed have pretty much the same rights (unless you have a Fitness First membership).

[johng]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

and 4 hours ago I had a swab shoved about 3 inches up my nose, again.

 

Normal?

 That's why they called it "The new normal"  !   ???? 

[new2here]

1 hour ago, cclub75 said:

But in anycase, this idea of "Covid pass" will never be widely used in Thailand... It's just impossible. From a practical point of view.

I agree.. IMHO, a combination of an overall lax attitude towards rules/law compliance by the general public plus a law enforcement mechanism that just hasn’t shown its ability to enforce laws uniformly, consistently or continually.

 

I think the ONE area where it could be implemented is for the purchase of domestic air travel.  The carriers could be forced to add a field in their booking platforms, for your covid pass to to be uploaded or linked, before a ticket can be bought and then again, shown at time of travel.  That part could be added to the TIMATIC profile and therefore would automatically be triggered when someone checks in. 

[crazykopite]

What a load of BS we still have a curfew we still are not allowed to drink in bars so how the hell are things getting back to normal if I want to go from Koh Phangan to Koh Samui I have to go to the government office and get a certificate in order that I can return I can go buy a beer in 7/11 Makro . Big C and any other shop that sells booze but bars are not allowed to open  it’s total madness and this has been going on for months 

[BritManToo]

Will this be enforced like not driving a motor vehicle without tax, insurance, driving license, helmet?

As for not letting me into a bank ......... will they really not be wanting their home loan repayments?

Edited October 6, 2021 by BritManToo

[new2here]

6 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

I was asking this for a long time, but there was no answer on how EU or US vax passport would be transferred to the local Thai card. I guess it won't matter much anymore since non-vaxed have pretty much the same rights (unless you have a Fitness First membership).

i don’t think it ever will.. my guess is that initially, the default answer will be the use of the yellow-book-like Covid Certificate- that very closely resembles that of the much older and nearly worldwide recognized Yellow Fever Certificate. With each country issuing their own, but in accordance with the agreed/accepted standards.

 

Later, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some countries migrate to an online searchable database, accessible by authorized entities; like foreign immigration agencies. 

[ChomDo]

4 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Selfish anti-vaxxers? 

It's selfish to care about what goes into your body? What is wrong with you?

Getting away so easy? According to the scaremongers they are all going to die. As long as your are vaccinated; you aren't. So why the bitterness?

This one is personal for me because I know a few people who are totally brainwashed just because they got into all these dark web sites claiming that the world is flat and vaccines kill you. Same happened to NBA star Kyrie Irving.

 

Sure "selfish" may sound a bit harsh but their decision not to get vaxxed based on some false conspiracy theories affects everyone and prolongs the process of getting life back to normal. It's only because of vaccinated people that we are slowly opening up again – in Europe pretty much back to normal now.

 

Just read in local news (not Thailand) that hospitals now only have non-vaxxed people that are then causing patients with other critical sicknesses to wait for treatment. That could be seen as selfish in my opinion. 

[Johnny Mac]

1 hour ago, timendres said:

 

At some point, this nonsense will pass.

Apart from at airports, I think you are probably right. Won't be anytime real soon, but I think more and more people everywhere are beginning to think enough of this nonsense now, and rightly so. This has gone on for wayyyyy too long already. The vaccines work and Delta is losing it's strength. Time to start cracking on again, even if you have nothing to crack on with. You will always have some curtain twitchers and those who will stay behind their sofa's, but that's on them.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Johnny Mac

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, cclub75 said:

It's pure fantasy...

 

Pure PR. Thailand wants to do like "grown up countries" (AKA western).

 

Old syndrome of inferiority.

 

So they take all the bad ideas coming from us, instead of doing their own things.

 

It's really pathetic.

 

But in anycase, this idea of "Covid pass" will never be widely used in Thailand... It's just impossible. From a practical point of view.

 

It might be used in a few district "show off" in Bangkok, for rich tourists, that's all. Good for the TV crews. But around the country ? Outside Bangkok ?

 

It's good to laugh.

 

1 hour ago, timendres said:

Well, that is not "getting back to normal" is it?

At some point, this nonsense will pass.

So the Thai authorities are 

going for highly publicised measures, which are impractical to enforce, only vaguely explained, largely misunderstood and will be ignored by most of the population.

 

Definitely back to normal!

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

“I know that without a vaccine, my life cannot return to normal,” said Kawin, who lives and works in Bangkok. Though nearly half of the Thai population has received the first shot and nearly a third have been double-jabbed, he has still not received a single dose. Millions of Thais are also in the same situation.

Which is why the notion of no jab no entry is just all talk and no substance.

[malathione]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Even with all the explanations on this forum and many many other sources, is this really still a struggle?

 

Think of it as a ‘bigger picture’ issue....

 

The mRNA vaccines reportedly have an efficacy of 95% against contracting Covid-19 (Pre-Delta variant figures), I’m not sure what the mRNA efficacy figures are against the Delta Variant (but they are less). Real world efficiency is also less than efficacy...  (efficacy measures against a healthy test group within a specific age range, where as efficiency is measured in the general population, full age ranges, health issues etc). 

 

Thus: IF the real world efficiency of the mRNA vaccines are 80% that means 8 out of 10 people exposed to SARS-CoV-2 who would otherwise have tested positive for Covid-19 do not test positive - they still carry the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but for a shorter period of time than some who tests positive for Covid-19 inside whom the virus is replicating. IF that person who tests positive for Covid-19 also presents with symptoms they are contagious for a longer period of time, they also sneeze, cough more than a someone without symptoms.

 

Even with vaccines of a far lower efficacy and real world effectiveness i.e. for arguments sake, 50% when millions of people have been vaccinated, thats half of millions of people who can spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus, for a shorter period of time and who do not present with symptoms. 

 

 

There is a sweet spot which is highly dependant on the R0 value of the virus, no one knows for sure what that sweet spot is, its also dependent on many social and environmental factors - population density and weather. 

 

That ‘sweet spot’ figure is likely to be less than 99% or 98%.... But when someone chooses not to vaccinate they do not know they are within a 1% or 2% of a population who refuse to get vaccinated and if sufficient numbers do not vaccinated the spread of the virus will continue at a greater rate with greater risk of evolution of the virus and a greater risk to everyone.

 

Thus: Those who choose not to vaccinate are a risk to the vaccinated because when in aggregate the numbers of  those who do not vaccinate exceeds the ’sweet spot’ at which the virus spreads and evolves, that evolution unmitigated presents greater risk for everyone - the only measures of mitigation we currently have are Isolation or vaccination. 

 

Its not just every vaccinated person who is at risk by other unvaccinated people, but in aggregate, every unvaccinated person is also at risk from other unvaccinated people.

 

The only change to any of this will be 100% effective vaccines or treatment which is effective against all variants of Covid-19 and prevents all illness, hospitalisations and deaths - i.e. treatment which renders Covid-19 completely moot. 

 

 

Because the ’sweet spot’ (as explained earlier) is unknown...  also simply put, IF you are carrying the virus because you have not vaccinated, you present a risk to the percentage of people who cannot be vaccinated or for whom the vaccine does not work. 

 

Its not similar at all - I am not at greater risk in a car accident because you drive past me without a seatbelt, yet walk past me or enter the same room with Covid-19 and I have a chance of contracting it - you have a greater chance of carrying it because you are unvaccinated. 

 

The seatbelt example is also highly flawed: You not wearing a seatbelt can lead to greater injury, government costs of treatment, loss of an earner for your family etc etc...  ‘others are protect’ in socio-economic stand point through you not being injured, killed, disabled through the protection of a seatbelt. 

 

 

Another highly flawed argument...  You have used people with ‘high-risk jobs’ are still doing jobs which are a necessity for ‘our’ standard of living. 

 

Perhaps you could compare leisure activities instead of high risk jobs (*which would be a better comparison) - but those doing ‘higher risk leisure activities’ do not present a health risk to others, where as not being vaccinated does. 

 

I’m not sure why analogies or comparisons are necessary - the distorts explanations to oversimplify to avoid the real issue... BUT... IF you really need a comparison - not getting vaccinated is like the passive smoking issue... your actions can have a health impact on innocent others unless you remain isolated. 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent writeup. Thank you for this.

[poskat]

1 hour ago, BKKTRAVELER said:

Has anyone here been asked for vaccination proof by local businesses?

I had to show my vax doc at fitness first to go in the first time

[poskat]

2 hours ago, 2long said:

While expecting a backlash from the pro-vaxxers who won't listen that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but I would like to know....

 

- if 99% are vaccinated, how can the 1% be a danger to the others?

- if 98% are vaccinated, can the 2% be a danger to the others?

 

we have been told that with the 2 vax shots you can still get infected, just not as sick

so someone unvaxxed is no threat to a vaxxed person

either one can get infected and pass it on

only the unvaxxed should get sick

[BKKTRAVELER]

2 minutes ago, poskat said:

I had to show my vax doc at fitness first to go in the first time

Thanks, interesting. Did they say that if you weren't vaccinated you could not go in? I'm just curious.