Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[norbra]

57 minutes ago, norbra said:

Just placing an order with Wise,noticed that payment by credit card and internet banking would arrive in seconds while with bank transfers payment expected in 5 hours

Sorry all , late in posting this was from yesterday (friday)

[DomiCollins]

Since many of us overcome this problem, I am looking for another similar application to make international transfers.
I discovered ASIMO which seems to be  more interesting. 
 

The problem is to know if  the  transfers from ASIMO are tagged as international or FTT  !!!

 

Does anyone here have the answer ?
I’d appreciate  

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, DomiCollins said:

Since many of us overcome this problem, I am looking for another similar application to make international transfers.
I discovered ASIMO which seems to be  more interesting. 
 

The problem is to know if  the  transfers from ASIMO are tagged as international or FTT  !!!

 

Does anyone here have the answer ?
I’d appreciate  

From UK I'd say only swifts are International, Wise type companies get processed as local

[billd766]

8 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

From UK I'd say only swifts are International, Wise type companies get processed as local

Then you would say that wrongly. What is worse is that you keep repeating the same mantra. Will you please correct it?

 

However transfers from Wise to BBK, if they are tagged to go via BBK only, are arriving in the BBK as International transactions on the bank statement and as FTT in the bankbook.

 

This has been my experience for nearly 3 years and is shared by quite a few other posters.

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Then you would say that wrongly. What is worse is that you keep repeating the same mantra. Will you please correct it?

 

However transfers from Wise to BBK, if they are tagged to go via BBK only, are arriving in the BBK as International transactions on the bank statement and as FTT in the bankbook.

 

This has been my experience for nearly 3 years and is shared by quite a few other posters.

you missed the point yet again....he was asking for alternatives

[OJAS]

15 hours ago, DomiCollins said:

Since many of us overcome this problem, I am looking for another similar application to make international transfers.
I discovered ASIMO which seems to be  more interesting. 
 

The problem is to know if  the  transfers from ASIMO are tagged as international or FTT  !!!

 

Does anyone here have the answer ?
I’d appreciate  

Suggest that you initiate a token (c.£100 or equivalent) transfer with them to see how the end result in your (presumably) Bangkok Bank account is eventually coded.

 

 

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

From UK I'd say only swifts are International

And seemingly no guarantee even of this, according to @Pib earlier in this thread.

 

 

[OJAS]

Thought it high time to check out the lie of the land in my case in preparation for my next monthly transfer in just over a week. Initiated a token £100 transfer this morning, only to be dismayed by it being paid straight away, with the partner bank being Kasikorn and, hence, an internal coding resulting. However, I have, for some time noticed a second completely identical recipient in my Wise account (right down to my Bangkok Bank account number), so I tried another £100 transfer to this second recipient, which, much to my relief, resulted in an email stating that the THB equivalent would be paid out tomorrow. So it looks like this second recipient is the one which Wise tagged at my request last year, with the first recipient being untagged. 

 

On a point of detail, I noticed when logging in to my Wise account for the first time since the start of the month that the actual figures of the 6-digit access code which I had received by SMS were each shown on screen, separated by hyphens (I'm sure that these figures weren't displayed on screen previously). Makes me wonder what further "mischief" Wise's IT boffins might have been up to these past few weeks, which we have still to find out about the hard way.

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by OJAS

[pontious]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

On a point of detail, I noticed when logging in to my Wise account for the first time since the start of the month that the actual figures of the 6-digit access code which I had received by SMS were each shown on screen, separated by hyphens (I'm sure that these figures weren't displayed on screen previously).

They were not - you had to type them in. Now I do not get them at all when I now log on. Just log on - no SMS and it just opens.??????????????/ If the figures are there automatically how can that be an added layer of security.? I do not get them at all now.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

Thought it high time to check out the lie of the land in my case in preparation for my next monthly transfer in just over a week. Initiated a token £100 transfer this morning, only to be dismayed by it being paid straight away, with the partner bank being Kasikorn and, hence, an internal coding resulting. However, I have, for some time noticed a second completely identical recipient in my Wise account (right down to my Bangkok Bank account number), so I tried another £100 transfer to this second recipient, which, much to my relief, resulted in an email stating that the THB equivalent would be paid out tomorrow. So it looks like this second recipient is the one which Wise tagged at my request last year, with the first recipient being untagged. 

 

On a point of detail, I noticed when logging in to my Wise account for the first time since the start of the month that the actual figures of the 6-digit access code which I had received by SMS were each shown on screen, separated by hyphens (I'm sure that these figures weren't displayed on screen previously). Makes me wonder what further "mischief" Wise's IT boffins might have been up to these past few weeks, which we have still to find out about the hard way.

 

 

1 hour ago, pontious said:

They were not - you had to type them in. Now I do not get them at all when I now log on. Just log on - no SMS and it just opens.??????????????/ If the figures are there automatically how can that be an added layer of security.? I do not get them at all now.

When I log on to Wise I get message on my tablet from Wise asking if it is me and it is OK to proceed. If I ignore that it will not open and to open it I need to access the account by my mobile to which they send a OTP of 6 numbers by SMS but with no hyphens. Then I fill that in and I get into my Wise account.

 

The tablet and the mobile have different numbers. A good safety check.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

A good safety check.

Not in OJAS case - they are already there for him in the correct boxes . I do not GET any SMS anymore I click log on and it does, This is a computer not a mobile. Who knows.? Beats me..

[Phulublub]

21 minutes ago, pontious said:

Not in OJAS case - they are already there for him in the correct boxes . I do not GET any SMS anymore I click log on and it does, This is a computer not a mobile. Who knows.? Beats me..

Perhaps depends if customer has set up two factor authentication or not?  I get SMS sent to phone, logging in on PC.

PH

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

When I log on to Wise I get message on my tablet from Wise asking if it is me and it is OK to proceed. If I ignore that it will not open and to open it I need to access the account by my mobile to which they send a OTP of 6 numbers by SMS but with no hyphens. Then I fill that in and I get into my Wise account.

 

The tablet and the mobile have different numbers. A good safety check.

I got my money from wise sent Friday and it was in my Bkk bk same day.

Just had an email from WISE saying did we do and how can we improve things for you.

So sent reply saying,  Get my Bkk bk to mark the funds as coming from abroad. 

[pontious]

7 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Perhaps depends if customer has set up two factor authentication or not?  I get SMS sent to phone, logging in on PC.

PH

So did I - now I do not - I have not changed anything. Life's small mysteries.

[lexilis]

An update on two test transfers of USD (from the US) from Wise I made on last Thursday. For one I defined a SWIFT wire transfer using BKKBTHBK. For the other I defined a domestic transfer from Wise to the BBK NY office using their ABA routing # (026008691). In this one BBK NY, not Wise, actually does the international transfer. Both of them posted today in my Thai BBK account. Both of them were coded FFT. Success. However the fees charged by BBK (and/or the conversion rates), especially for the SWIFT transfer were more than the normal Wise transfer. For the SWIFT transfer I got a net conversion rate of less than 31.5. Not good. Still these are two alternatives because in each case they are never routed through another Thai bank so will always come through FFT. Early this morning I did a "normal" Wise international transfer from my USD account (selecting "funds for long term stay"). It did not post immediately in my Thai account and it says it should arrive approx. 2:00 PM today which indicates that it will post FFT. As of last week my Wise account is "tagged".

[JohnOFphon]

1 hour ago, lexilis said:

An update on two test transfers of USD (from the US) from Wise I made on last Thursday. For one I defined a SWIFT wire transfer using BKKBTHBK. For the other I defined a domestic transfer from Wise to the BBK NY office using their ABA routing # (026008691). In this one BBK NY, not Wise, actually does the international transfer. Both of them posted today in my Thai BBK account. Both of them were coded FFT. Success. However the fees charged by BBK (and/or the conversion rates), especially for the SWIFT transfer were more than the normal Wise transfer. For the SWIFT transfer I got a net conversion rate of less than 31.5. Not good. Still these are two alternatives because in each case they are never routed through another Thai bank so will always come through FFT. Early this morning I did a "normal" Wise international transfer from my USD account (selecting "funds for long term stay"). It did not post immediately in my Thai account and it says it should arrive approx. 2:00 PM today which indicates that it will post FFT. As of last week my Wise account is "tagged".

Could you clear up something? Please.

When you sent the Swift transfer via Wise, was it from a borderless account in NY?

What reason for the transfer did you choose?

What fee did you choose? The $14 dollar or $2.90.

How much did you pay start to finish?

And...lastly...what was the total when you sent it to Bkk NY to BkkB here?

I know BkkB charges 200bt for the exchange. But what else.

Sorry if too many questions. I want to decide which option to choose with my next transfer.

Thanks

[Pib]

1 hour ago, lexilis said:

An update on two test transfers of USD (from the US) from Wise I made on last Thursday. For one I defined a SWIFT wire transfer using BKKBTHBK. For the other I defined a domestic transfer from Wise to the BBK NY office using their ABA routing # (026008691). In this one BBK NY, not Wise, actually does the international transfer. 

That's good to know...tells me the format that Wise uses to send to Bangkok Bank satisfies the ACH "IAT" format......the ACH IAT format that Bangkok Bank NY started requiring a year or two ago for personal transfers from a bank/brokerage/etc.....if not in ACH "IAT" format the NY branch would just reject it back to the sender.  The only non-IAT ACH transfer than can still get thru the NY branch is U.S. govt benefits/pension paying agencies like Social Security, DFAS military retirement, VA, etc. 

 

But for those folks who have U.S. banks that charge an arm-and-a-leg for a SWIFT transfer and/or make it kinda hard to do a SWIFT transfer, those folks should be able to do a normal ACH transfer easily and for free to a Wise multicurrency acct (except a few fee evil U.S. bank that even charge a few dollars for an ACH transfer).   Do the transfer to their Wise multicurrency acct which has it's own ACH routing number and acct number (just like a U.S. bank) and then fund a SWIFT transfer from their multicurrency acct like you've been doing.  And the cost of a transfer is significantly less when funding from a person's multicurrency acct.  Preaching to the choir I know....these rambling words are just meant for those U.S. folks who have Wise accts but haven't activated the multicurrency acct option yet.  The multicurrency acct is a good thing....makes Wise transfers cheaper & faster and gives a person more options in how to use Wise to best effect.   Now regarding their debit card (which I didn't get or want) I guess that card is beneficial to some, but the fees associated with it and the very limited withdrawal amount allowed per month makes it a piece of plastic I don't want.

 

 

 

 

[Phulublub]

From Wise this morning:

 

The way the Wise platform works, we use local bank transfers with local currency transfers, to enable us to transfer funds with lower fees, and thus make our services cheaper for you. 

In short, rather than transferring funds through borders, we receive a local transfer from the place of origin of the transaction, and send out a local transfer from a local account in the receiving country/area.

Unfortunately, with this in mind, we will not be able to send the funds from a bank account outside of Thailand, without you setting up a SWIFT transfer.

 

Guess I am going to have to go back to them wth some of the replies given to other posters here.

 

PH

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

From Wise this morning:

 

The way the Wise platform works, we use local bank transfers with local currency transfers, to enable us to transfer funds with lower fees, and thus make our services cheaper for you. 

In short, rather than transferring funds through borders, we receive a local transfer from the place of origin of the transaction, and send out a local transfer from a local account in the receiving country/area.

Unfortunately, with this in mind, we will not be able to send the funds from a bank account outside of Thailand, without you setting up a SWIFT transfer.

 

Guess I am going to have to go back to them wth some of the replies given to other posters here.

 

PH

they are stating what we already know, depends what you asked them. Just get them to tag your account to route via Bangkok Bank partner bank

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Phulublub said:

From Wise this morning:

 

The way the Wise platform works, we use local bank transfers with local currency transfers, to enable us to transfer funds with lower fees, and thus make our services cheaper for you. 

In short, rather than transferring funds through borders, we receive a local transfer from the place of origin of the transaction, and send out a local transfer from a local account in the receiving country/area.

Unfortunately, with this in mind, we will not be able to send the funds from a bank account outside of Thailand, without you setting up a SWIFT transfer.

 

Guess I am going to have to go back to them wth some of the replies given to other posters here.

 

PH

I don't know what questions you asked Wise and how you phrased them, but I think their "Unfortunately.........a SWIFT transfer" statement is probably trying to say "when Wise sends funds using their normal peer-to-peer method" they are really using their own funds in a local acct (like in a Thai bank partner bank acct) to finalize a transfer.   

 

But with a SWIFT transfer they are "not" using their normal peer-to-peer transfer network but instead using the SWIFT network.....then money is really starting it's trek in your home country and/or a country other than Thailand and flowing into Thailand.   

[scubascuba3]

Both my Thursday transfers just settled 2pm International, I used "long term stay" for one and "general living expenses" for the other, so the reason for transfer no longer matters for routing

[Phulublub]

52 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

they are stating what we already know, depends what you asked them. Just get them to tag your account to route via Bangkok Bank partner bank

This is what I asked them:

 

You may be aware of the Immigration requirement for expats in Thailand that we need to show funds arriving from overseas into our accounts. I understand that you can tag my BKK bank account so that funds will always arrive direct from you into it and not via another bank here (which would then show as an internal transfer not FTT). Please do so

 

Was I not clear?

 

PH

 

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

This is what I asked them:

 

You may be aware of the Immigration requirement for expats in Thailand that we need to show funds arriving from overseas into our accounts. I understand that you can tag my BKK bank account so that funds will always arrive direct from you into it and not via another bank here (which would then show as an internal transfer not FTT). Please do so

 

Was I not clear?

 

PH

 

No not clear enough.

 

You need to ask them to tag your account so your transfers are routed to Bangkok Bank partner bank and then to your Bangkok Bank account.

 

For me they have tagged my BB account plus my Kasikorn account isn't embroiled in the tagging so i get instant transfers via Kasikorn partner bank

Edited October 25, 2021 by scubascuba3

[Pib]

For U.S. Folks. 

 

Below is an analysis of during a: (1) USD-THB transfer funded by Bank Debit (ACH), (2) a USD-THB transfer funded from your Wise Multicurrency acct, and then (3) a USD-USD transfer to Bangkok Bank New York branch who relays it to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch....see lexillis' post a few up on his "small dollar" test transfer via the NY branch for more background on this method.

 

In the analysis I used a $2,100 amount which comfortably exceeds Bt65K arriving based on current exchange rates/fees.    I think you may be surprised how each method faired in terms of amount of baht arriving your acct....and of course the important coding issue when needing FTT coding. 

 

***********

USD-THB typical transfer...using Bank Debit (ACH) to Fund the Transfer.  That is, Wise pulls funding from your U.S. bank acct to fund the transfer.

 

 

***********

USD-THB Transfer...but now using your Wise Multicurrency Acct "Balance" to Fund.   Funding you have already "pushed" to Wise via a free ACH push transfer from your U.S. bank...or maybe you are having a pension Direct Deposited to your Wise Multicurrency acct.    Funding from the balance of your multicurrency acct results in lower Wise transfer fees which means more baht arriving on the receiving end.

 

 

************

Now a USD-USD local transfer from your Wise Multicurrency Acct to Bangkok Bank NY just like a person use to be able to do directly from their U.S. bank to the NY branch before that ACH "IAT" policy changed killed that method as very, very, very few U.S. banks use ACH IAT format...they only use the "standard/domestic" ACH format. You have previously send those dollars into your Wise Multicurrency acct via a ACH transfer (probably free) from your U.S. bank or maybe you have your pension payment going directly to the Wise Multicurrency acct.   However, below only shows what Wise will charge to send the money to the NY branch. Some more number crunching is needed to determine how much will post to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct after Bangkok Bank uses its currency exchange rate and applies its fees.  Once it arrives the Bangkok Bank NY branch a $10 fee would be sliced off by the NY branch for any transfer over $2000 (only $5 if $2K or below)...then they forward the remaining amount to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch which in this example would be $2,089.49 being forward to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch where they would first use their TT Buying Rate to convert the received USDs.  They use their TT Buying Rate (usually the daily opening/0830am rate) which would have been 33.12 baht/USD for today/25 Oct.  $2,089.49 which arrived times 33.12 equals Bt69,203.90.  But before posting they still have to apply their receiving fee of 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).    Bt69,203.90 times 0.25% equals Bt173.00 which is below the minimum fee of Bt200, so Bt200 is deducted from the Bt69,203.90 which results in Bt69,003.90 posting to your acct---and it posts with FTT coding since it flowed thru the U.S. ACH system.   The amount posting to your acct beats Wise's typical funding/transfer method and is only a little lower if using the Wise multicurrency acct funding/transfer method.   But the NY branch routing method will ensure FTT coding since it flowed thru the ACH system, whereas, flowing thru Wise's peer-to-peer system you might not get FTT coding at Bangkok Bank unless Wise chose Bangkok Bank to be the partner bank for the transfer. 

 

 

Da End.

 

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

39 minutes ago, Pib said:

But the NY branch routing method will ensure FTT coding since it flowed thru the ACH system

The downside is that it will require bank visit to obtain funds as Bangkok Bank account can not have card or electronic access as bank policy.  For some not an issue - but for others could be a pain.

[Pib]

And for those U.S. folks who want to do a low value test transfer via the Bangkok Bank NY branch, in order to minimize the Bangkok Bank fees for the test recommend you transfers no more than $50 as such an amount will not incur a Bangkok Bank NY branch fee.  However, the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch fee of 025% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) will still be applied.   

 

For a $50 test transfer that means Bt200 (approx $6) in Bangkok Bank fees...and don't forget the 51 cents Wise fee for such a transfer  So a $50 test transfer via Bangkok Bank NY branch would cost approx $6.51 in total fees.

 

 

 

When funding from Wise multicurrency acct/

[skatewash]

17 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

The downside is that it will require bank visit to obtain funds as Bangkok Bank account can not have card or electronic access as bank policy.  For some not an issue - but for others could be a pain.

Bangkok Bank imposes those conditions on its bank accounts into which US government funds are direct deposited.  I don't think the transfers specified by lexilis above are direct deposits by the federal government.  Therefore the kinds of restrictions mentioned should not be imposed on his Bangkok Bank accounts just because he has executed these transfers.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by skatewash

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

The downside is that it will require bank visit to obtain funds as Bangkok Bank account can not have card or electronic access as bank policy.  For some not an issue - but for others could be a pain.

No....the requirement for restricted Bangkok Bank acct where you have to visit the bank to withdraw money, have a debit card, etc.,  only applies to "reoccurring ACH U.S. govt payments or private organizations payments via direct deposit" like social security, military retirement, etc.     For "direct deposits", like a monthly payment, there is special coding designating it as a Direct Deposit vs an adhoc bank transfer.

 

Since Wise is initiating the payment the funds are not coming from a U.S. govt agency, therefore, they could be sent to a regular (unrestricted) savings acct also.  

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Pib

[lopburi3]

33 minutes ago, Pib said:

Since Wise is initiating the payment the funds are not coming from a U.S. govt agency, therefore, they could be sent to a regular (unrestricted) savings acct also.  

Indeed was thinking ACH was from government rather than Wise.  Thanks.

What are the requirements for direct deposit to Wise?  Normal US Bank ACH data?  Was not aware of that option (to direct deposit to borderless account as never checked on that - but starting to sound like an option).  Thanks again for the detailed report.

[racyrick]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Both my Thursday transfers just settled 2pm International, I used "long term stay" for one and "general living expenses" for the other, so the reason for transfer no longer matters for routing

Is your account tagged? Forget question, I see your answered it above.

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by racyrick
Left something out

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

And for those U.S. folks who want to do a low value test transfer via the Bangkok Bank NY branch, in order to minimize the Bangkok Bank fees for the test recommend you transfers no more than $50 as such an amount will not incur a Bangkok Bank NY branch fee.  However, the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch fee of 025% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) will still be applied.   

 

For a $50 test transfer that means Bt200 (approx $6) in Bangkok Bank fees...and don't forget the 51 cents Wise fee for such a transfer  So a $50 test transfer via Bangkok Bank NY branch would cost approx $6.51 in total fees.

 

 

 

When funding from Wise multicurrency acct/

Do you have to have a multi currency account to make a transfer from my bank to Bangkok Bank-NY branch?

Can you use the Debit ACH pull from my bank to transfer to the Bangkok Bank-NY branch? Thanks