Sinovac/ Astra Zeneca combo Vaccinations not recognised as fully vaccinated

[skorts]

I, and my wife, both British Citizens living in Thailand, have each received Sinovac followed by AstraZeneca vaccinations. 
We understand this combination is not recognised by the British Government and we would be treated as non-vaccinated if we visit the U.K.  

We imagine there will be a number of British citizens living in Thailand in a similar position to us. 
Will the British Government recognise British Citizens who have had Sinovac plus AstraZeneca followed by a booster shot of another vaccine on their approved list e.g. AstraZeneca, Moderna?
This is really important as it effects our (and others) future vaccination booster plans and our ability to be recognised by the British Government as fully vaccinated avoiding the need to self-isolate for 10 days on arrival in the U.K.  

[blackcab]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but this is how I see it.

 

If you have received two recognised vaccines, for example AstraZenica and Moderna, then you should be classed as fully vaccinated.

 

The fact that you have had an additional non-recognised vaccine should not matter. I base my opinion on the following:

 

A somewhat similar situation has occurred in the UK. The minimum recognised time between the first and second vaccine shots is three weeks. Out of the millions of people who have been vaccinated, a very few people ended up getting their second shot too early, before the three weeks had elapsed.

 

The way the government handled this was to discount or ignore the vaccine dose that had been received too early, and allow the individual to get another shot at a later date.

 

Any difficulty, however, is not going to be in dealing with the UK government. The problem might be with your airline when you are boarding to go to the UK.

 

As such I would take the time to check with them before you book, and try and get an email reply from their customer service department.

 

There are a lot of people in a similar situation to yourselves, so the airlines will have to find a way of dealing with this, especially as recognised shots can now be received from different countries.

[bluemoon58]

14 hours ago, skorts said:

Will the British Government recognise British Citizens who have had Sinovac plus AstraZeneca followed by a booster shot of another vaccine on their approved list e.g. AstraZeneca, Moderna?

How long's a piece of string...???

[XJPSX]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but this is how I see it.

 

If you have received two recognised vaccines, for example AstraZenica and Moderna, then you should be classed as fully vaccinated.

 

The fact that you have had an additional non-recognised vaccine should not matter. I base my opinion on the following:

 

A somewhat similar situation has occurred in the UK. The minimum recognised time between the first and second vaccine shots is three weeks. Out of the millions of people who have been vaccinated, a very few people ended up getting their second shot too early, before the three weeks had elapsed.

 

The way the government handled this was to discount or ignore the vaccine dose that had been received too early, and allow the individual to get another shot at a later date.

 

Any difficulty, however, is not going to be in dealing with the UK government. The problem might be with your airline when you are boarding to go to the UK.

 

As such I would take the time to check with them before you book, and try and get an email reply from their customer service department.

 

There are a lot of people in a similar situation to yourselves, so the airlines will have to find a way of dealing with this, especially as recognised shots can now be received from different countries.

You must have the batch numbers and know where the Astra came from along with any other alternatives.

So, it’s important to know yourself the country of manufacture.

[4MyEgo]

What I find interesting is that the UK and other countries allow their own citizens within their country who choose not to get vaccinated to roam the streets free as birds, yet if their own citizens wishing to return from abroad have had some kind of vaccinations like you say Sinovac followed by AZ  (something better than nothing), they have to quarantine for 14 days.

 

Bureaucracy at it's best.

 

Edit: Not to mention, that the airlines will accept you as vaccinated and transport you all the way to the UK, so it's ok to travel on airlines vaccinated, but the UK government not recognising you if you had a shot of the Chinese vax which is approved by the WHO, sounds politically motivated if you ask me.

Edited October 13, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Nojohndoe]

23 minutes ago, XJPSX said:

You must have the batch numbers and know where the Astra came from along with any other alternatives.

So, it’s important to know yourself the country of manufacture.

Are you saying or suggesting the UK is continuing to discriminate over the source of AZ production?

[millymoopoo]

Would it be possible to 'buy' 1 Moderna/Pfiser shot from one of the major private hospitals.?

By discounting the Sinovac, but showing one AZ & one mRNA, would you then be considered fully vaccinated.?

On a slightly less related subject, Australia has recently recognised Sinovac and Sinopharm, not for any efficacy reasons, but for purely commercial reasons.

A very large part of the income of universities is derived from foreign students, the majority of whom come from China.!

[mtls2005]

Follow-on question: Is this same combo, and other 'cocktails' used by the thai government, acceptable for unfettered domestic travel?

 

See the newest Phuket entry rules re: domestic tourism (where vaccines are listed), and leaked plans for domestic air travel requirements.

 

A lot of cans, and a lot of worms.

 

The ramifications of incompetent policies (health, tourism) will hinder thailand for years.

 

 

 

Just saw all the caveats re: domestic travel and Phuket entry, where it says (in smaller print):

 

"Combining vaccine formulas as prescribed by the Ministry of Health."

 

 

So assume any cocktail served by the government is acceptable.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by mtls2005

[Denim]

Worth noting that you can still travel to the UK , even with mixed vaccine but you will be required to stay in a quarantine hotel on arrival for a cost of 2000 pounds . Ouch.

[ifmu]

so go get vac in whatever combo you like ...

[BananaGuy]

54 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Would it be possible to 'buy' 1 Moderna/Pfiser shot from one of the major private hospitals.?

By discounting the Sinovac, but showing one AZ & one mRNA, would you then be considered fully vaccinated.?

On a slightly less related subject, Australia has recently recognised Sinovac and Sinopharm, not for any efficacy reasons, but for purely commercial reasons.

A very large part of the income of universities is derived from foreign students, the majority of whom come from China.!

Actually I don’t think Sinopharm is approved by Australian TGA yet. 
 

Believe Sinovac is OK into Oz.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

Worth noting that you can still travel to the UK , even with mixed vaccine but you will be required to stay in a quarantine hotel on arrival for a cost of 2000 pounds . Ouch.

No, you will not. Since Thailand is no longer on the UK's red list, all you have to do is self-isolate at home (or wherever you're staying) for 10 days. No hotel quarantine is required. The OP even mentions this.

Edited October 13, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[murraynz]

3 hours ago, bluemoon58 said:

How long's a piece of string...???

I got those same two vaccines in Thailand.. 

I'm not interested in going to the UK,  but australia ,NZ and other Asian countries, over the next few years. 

 

[skorts]

7 hours ago, blackcab said:

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but this is how I see it.

 

If you have received two recognised vaccines, for example AstraZenica and Moderna, then you should be classed as fully vaccinated.

 

The fact that you have had an additional non-recognised vaccine should not matter. I base my opinion on the following:

 

A somewhat similar situation has occurred in the UK. The minimum recognised time between the first and second vaccine shots is three weeks. Out of the millions of people who have been vaccinated, a very few people ended up getting their second shot too early, before the three weeks had elapsed.

 

The way the government handled this was to discount or ignore the vaccine dose that had been received too early, and allow the individual to get another shot at a later date.

 

Any difficulty, however, is not going to be in dealing with the UK government. The problem might be with your airline when you are boarding to go to the UK.

 

As such I would take the time to check with them before you book, and try and get an email reply from their customer service department.

 

There are a lot of people in a similar situation to yourselves, so the airlines will have to find a way of dealing with this, especially as recognised shots can now be received from different countries.

I agree with your assessment. 
 

The big question marks for me are:

 

1. Take 1 (or 2) of the Moderna shots (when they become available) that I reserved and paid for back in June when there was so much uncertainty about who could get vaccines and when. 
 

Or if I should wait for a “free” AstraZeneca booster shot which I am pretty sure will be offered to everyone (or similar) in Thailand next year. 

 

2. The timing of the booster shot. To be fully vaccinated you have a first shot followed by a second shot. In Thailand, for Sinovac plus AstraZeneca shots there were three weeks between shots. For AstraZeneca plus AstraZeneca there were two months between shots. Johnson & Johnson only requires one shot but this is not available in Thailand yet.  
 

So, if you take a booster shooter e.g. for me, assuming Astra Zeneca, does this mean I have to have the booster 2 months after my first AstraZeneca to be considered fully vaccinated?
 

This is not going to happen as I would have to have the AstraZeneca booster shot next week. 
 

Likewise, if I take Moderna as a booster do I only need one shot or two shots and do these have to be administered at specific times to deem me fully vaccinated?
 

i (and others) could end up taking booster vaccines of the wrong type and at the wrong times which means we are never considered vaccinated. 
 

Clearly, any booster shots of the the two dose vaccines are not given at the same time intervals as the original two shots so clarification from the British Government is really important. 
 

Until then my assumption is I remain classed as “unvaccinated” in the eyes of the British Government. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by skorts

[hansnl]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

What I find interesting is that the UK and other countries allow their own citizens within their country who choose not to get vaccinated to roam the streets free as birds, yet if their own citizens wishing to return from abroad have had some kind of vaccinations like you say Sinovac followed by AZ  (something better than nothing), they have to quarantine for 14 days.

 

Bureaucracy at it's best.

 

Edit: Not to mention, that the airlines will accept you as vaccinated and transport you all the way to the UK, so it's ok to travel on airlines vaccinated, but the UK government not recognising you if you had a shot of the Chinese vax which is approved by the WHO, sounds politically motivated if you ask me.

There seems to be doubt about the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine.

[4MyEgo]

7 minutes ago, hansnl said:

There seems to be doubt about the effectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine.

As I said, something is better than nothing and if they have had AZ as the 2nd shot that has to say something vs nothing, especially with those in their own country walking around unvaccinated.

 

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know

 

 Like I said, it appears to be politically motivated.

How does this vaccine compare to other vaccines already in use?

We cannot compare the vaccines head-to-head due to the different approaches taken in designing the respective studies, but overall, all of the vaccines that have achieved WHO Emergency Use Listing are highly effective in preventing severe disease and hospitalization due to COVID-19.

 

How efficacious is the vaccine?

A large phase 3 trial in Brazil showed that two doses, administered at an interval of 14 days, had an efficacy of 51% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 100% against severe COVID-19, and 100% against hospitalization starting 14 days after receiving the second dose.

 

Does it work against new variants of SARS-CoV-2 virus?

In an observational study, the estimated effectiveness of Sinovac-CoronaVac in health workers in Manaus, Brazil, where P.1 accounted for 75% of SARS-CoV-2 samples was 49.6% against symptomatic infection (4). Effectiveness has also been shown in an observational study in Sao Paulo in the presence of P1 circulation (83% of samples).

Assessments in settings where the P.2 Variant of Concern was widely circulating – also in Brazil - estimated vaccine effectiveness of 49.6% following at least one dose and demonstrated 50.7% two weeks after the second dose. As new data becomes available, WHO will update recommendations accordingly. 

SAGE currently recommends using this vaccine, according to the WHO Prioritization Roadmap.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, skorts said:

So, if you take a booster shooter e.g. for me, assuming Astra Zeneca, does this mean I have to have the booster 2 months after my first AstraZeneca to be considered fully vaccinated?

No, you don't. The guidance just says that, "If you were vaccinated with a 2 dose vaccine (Moderna, Pfizer BioNTech, Oxford AstraZeneca, or a combination of them), you must have had both doses to be considered fully vaccinated for travel to the UK."

 

There is no requirement that the second dose of a vaccine be at a specific time interval, other than the fact that it shouldn't be given too early. In fact, for the Astrazeneca vaccine, the data shows that the longer you leave it, the greater the boost to the immune system. See below.

 

Delayed second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine leads to heightened immune response

 

Quote

A longer delay of up to 45 weeks between the first and second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine leads to enhanced immune response after the second dose.

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[SunsetT]

Im sure that I read somewhere that the 2 vaccines should be the same make. Sorry I cannot provide the link but if you scour the .gov.uk website Im sure that you will find the info. you need. This could well change as they are researching and debating what to use for a booster now in the UK. I believe that health care staff are already getting Pfizer as a booster, which would differ from the AZ vaccines which they probably received before. So differing vaccines will probably be accepted in the future but probably excluding Sinovac with its poor track record.

[jayboy]

7 hours ago, blackcab said:

Any difficulty, however, is not going to be in dealing with the UK government. The problem might be with your airline when you are boarding to go to the UK

Yes but it is the policy of the UK government that determines action by the airlines on this issue.At the moment Chinese and Russian vaccines are not recognised by the UK.If or when that UK government policy changes, the position of the airlines will change accordingly.

[GroveHillWanderer]

23 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

Im sure that I read somewhere that the 2 vaccines should be the same make.

No, that's not the case. Any mixture of the approved two-dose vaccines is allowed.

 

The actual wording is:

 

Quote

If you were vaccinated with a 2 dose vaccine (Moderna, Pfizer BioNTech, Oxford AstraZeneca, or a combination of them), you must have had both doses to be considered fully vaccinated for travel to the UK.

 

[Denim]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No, you will not. Since Thailand is no longer on the UK's red list, all you have to do is self-isolate at home (or wherever you're staying) for 10 days. No hotel quarantine is required. The OP even mentions this.

My bad. Thanks for the heads up. I clean forgot Thailand no longer on red list.

[DefaultName]

Get another dose, AZ or Pfizer, and you're good to go.

[skorts]

54 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

No, you don't. The guidance just says that, "If you were vaccinated with a 2 dose vaccine (Moderna, Pfizer BioNTech, Oxford AstraZeneca, or a combination of them), you must have had both doses to be considered fully vaccinated for travel to the UK."

 

There is no requirement that the second dose of a vaccine be at a specific time interval, other than the fact that it shouldn't be given too early. In fact, for the Astrazeneca vaccine, the data shows that the longer you leave it, the greater the boost to the immune system. See below.

 

Delayed second dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine leads to heightened immune response

 

 

Thanks for sharing that information. 
 

is the AstraZeneca vaccine being administered in Thailand the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine?

 

I am not sure it is as it was not produced in the U.K.  

[beano2274]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

My bad. Thanks for the heads up. I clean forgot Thailand no longer on red list.

actually you were in part correct, the OP states he has had SInovac, which is not on the UK List, therefore he would have to quarantine at a cost of 2200GBP, and the his wife as well at a reduced cost.

[beano2274]

35 minutes ago, skorts said:

Thanks for sharing that information. 
 

is the AstraZeneca vaccine being administered in Thailand the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine?

 

I am not sure it is as it was not produced in the U.K.  

Oxford Astra Zeneca is the correct name, we all call it Astra Zeneca though

[Tropposurfer]

5 hours ago, BananaGuy said:

Actually I don’t think Sinopharm is approved by Australian TGA yet. 
 

Believe Sinovac is OK into Oz.

It's not approved for being administering within Australia. Those foreigners vaccinated with it overseas are approved to enter the country with the opening of Aussie borders asap. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-03/sinovac-covishield-recognition-hopes-for-international-students/100508968

[BananaGuy]

57 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

It's not approved for being administering within Australia. Those foreigners vaccinated with it overseas are approved to enter the country with the opening of Aussie borders asap. 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-03/sinovac-covishield-recognition-hopes-for-international-students/100508968

Exactly as i suggested. They are two entirely seperate vaccines.

 

SinoVAC

Oz is OK with this.

 

SinoPHARM

is not approved by OZ TGA so cannot be administered withinn Oz and is not recognised as a vaccine for incoming travellers.

 

Regardless of immigration requirements I’m advising my Thai partner not to get Sinopharm even if it’s offered for free.

[UKJASE]

i would imagine it is two shots of recognised vaccine isnt it?

 

any other vaccines you have had, would be irrelevant (i guess)

[SunsetT]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:34 AM, GroveHillWanderer said:

No, that's not the case. Any mixture of the approved two-dose vaccines is allowed.

 

The actual wording is:

 

 

OK good. Sorry, my mistake......but I wish u had provided the actual link.

[Eaglekott]

Quote

I, and my wife, both British Citizens living in Thailand, have each received Sinovac followed by AstraZeneca vaccinations. 

Just get the second shot of AstraZeneca and you will be "fully vaccinated" if you go for Moderna of Pfizer you probably is counted as "Half Vaccinated" x3.

 

Booster of J&J as 3rd shot should also work because its a One-Dose vaccine.