Does a LT Girlfriend have property rights when we split - it's time

[RafPinto]

24 minutes ago, connda said:

Well, there's the definition of a Thai woman for ya! 

Thai women logic:

Farang money is now my money too.

My money is mine and stays mine.

 

[kingstonkid]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:37 AM, JoeBloe said:

Thanks folks.

It is as I had expected from a legal standpoint, up to my own internal model of the world what I am willing to offer.

Some more of the story.

Her father is dead (I paid a big lump of his funeral) and she is estranged from her family. As far as I can ascertain, this is between her and her mother.  Oldest daughters v. mothers is a thing in all cultures.

During my dealings with the family I have managed to secure the remaining part of the family farm for my GF plus some another small piece of land etc.. Every time the family needed money and I was expected to contribute, I traded a chanot for it, rather than straight charity. I offered to pay a large wad the other day to zero the family debt for the other part of the farm, but they apparently already agreed to sell it. Thai rural families are easy pray for loan sharks and banks. I gain no benefit for this, but I do not doubt my GF (and subsequently her son) would have ended with nothing without my intervention, so my contribution insured some of her farm stayed in family (her) hands. From my point of view, this is me giving her money.

My deal with her explicitly excluded marriage, it was that I would provide for everything incl. the boy's education and her only job was to be a full-time mother and a faithful partner. She did a pretty good job on the mother front and since she is a great cook, they both eat well. I have been faithful and kept everyone under my roof and given them a cosmopolitan lifestyle when we are outside Thailand.

One issue now appears to be she feels inferior to other Thai women because she doesn't have an expensive watch, lots of jewellery, a big bank balance and so on. She has developed an inferiority complex versus what she perceives other Thai woman receive from their farang partners. She has built up a massive "princess entitlement" position and she's angry about it. This is quite a new development.

I could throw gifts at her, but my experience is that she treats ear rings that cost 20 THB the same as those that cost 10,000 THB. A mistake I am not willing to make again so she can play princess around other women for a while.

There you go, a bit of pointless rambling about some of what is driving me out of my own home.  There are far deeper issues though, and there aren't solutions for those,. ????

Question: How can one reasonably hide knives from the chef?
 

She obviously is talking to other wives and gf.  This happened to me and really the only thing you can do is sit her down and show her what she has versus what the others have.  It probably willnot change much but that is the choice you have.

 

Show her what life will be like without you and with also if You break up do it in a way that tells everyone that you had no choice change the locks and tell security that she is no longer allowed in the  your condo.  She can still get entrance from her friends inthe condo.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, BTB1977 said:

My not legally married thai wife  sometimes throws the my friends husband gives her this and that. My friend has the credit card of her farang husband. My friends has 2 baht gold necklace, ring or what ever.  So I did an experiment on how she would take care of me if I let her have control of money I gave her 1,000 baht. And explained that this money is for taking care of us/me for that day. Food ,coffee whatever. She had every excuse for not pulling out that 1,000 baht all day. I left it at the shop. It's under the motorcycle seat 10 feet away, but didn't want to go get it. On and on. She has her own business so makes money for her mother, father and 2 lazy 20 somthing boys. Our arrangement is I take care of her. Her shop takes care of the family.  So I told her on our last anniversary that she can go s$ch her friends husband's Richard if she wants all that. I also said to ask her thai friend if her rich husband has a rich friend that might be interested in her and she can leave anytime. She has not brought up the BS my friend  stories ever again. 

Talk about manning up. You are doing the gender proud, with that kind of talk. I know so many weak men here, who just give into the pressure. It is such nonsense, and such a form of greedy emasculation. No thanks. I say no all the time too. It can be a very healthy thing for a woman to hear the word NO. 

[RafPinto]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

Talk about manning up. You are doing the gender proud, with that kind of talk. I know so many weak men here, who just give into the pressure. It is such nonsense, and such a form of greedy emasculation. No thanks. I say no all the time too. It can be a very healthy thing for a woman to hear the word NO. 

They give you the "wet puppy look" when they need extra cash.

Refuse to pay, they turn into a monster.

 

I showed my GF the door as she wanted more and more and do less and less at home.

Always talking about how much others get.

 

I told her many time that most don't get anything and that she could go and find a job.

 

No, she wanted a  rich farang 555 and now sitting in her village.

 

I told her many times that there are millions of good looking girls, younger than her who want exactly the same thing. ..... Quiet.....

[Mac Mickmanus]

On 10/17/2021 at 6:08 AM, JoeBloe said:

She wants more money constantly.  Bizarrely, she's never set foot in a bar or "worked", but she has now developed the same "whore mentality" that equates money with sex (and says it out loud) - I blame the Thai internet forums and chat rooms for that development.

To some extent, you did allow her to adopt that mentality 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, RafPinto said:

They give you the "wet puppy look" when they need extra cash.

Refuse to pay, they turn into a monster.

 

I showed my GF the door as she wanted more and more and do less and less at home.

Always talking about how much others get.

 

I told her many time that most don't get anything and that she could go and find a job.

 

No, she wanted a  rich farang 555 and now sitting in her village.

 

I told her many times that there are millions of good looking girls, younger than her who want exactly the same thing. ..... Quiet.....

Good one. Using financial reason with her. You do not like it here, you can leave anytime you want. You do not think you are getting "what you deserve", find a rich sucker. Plenty of them out there. I am not forcing you to stay with me. You are free to move on anytime you want.

 

I have a slightly modified plan. Since my wife and I have been together for a very long time, and are generally very happy together, if the occasion does arise when she is being demanding, or drinking too much with her girlfriends, who are nearly all drunkards, I just suggest she go home to her village, stay in our house there for a month or two, and stay around her very sober mom and dad for awhile. That really brings her back around! 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

Just the car, mainly because of the complications involved with getting it in my name (don't ask)

20-50K ????????

If you wanted to recover that money, there are things you can do. Such as teasing her into buying a new car. We need to sell this one, so we can buy a luxurious new one honey. I was thinking of a BMW, or a Volvo. It works every time. The buyer pays you, and the deal is done. Depending on the car, it may be just too high a price to pay for separation. 

 

Since she spends so much time and energy working you over psychologically, it seems only fair to return the favor, once and for all. 

[khunPer]

To my knowledge, and agreeing with other posters, common law marriage will not result in alimony in Thailand.

 

It will in my modest opinion be a fine gesture to give the lady in question some cash compensation in her hand for the time that she spent with you, so she has an excellent chance to move on...????

[Dont confuse me]

I've had more or less the same experience, mine was out if a bar.

I wanted the split I made an offer which she attempted to increase, so I reduced my offer which she immediately took.

Like you I didn't want to leave her high and dry (she was potentially past her sell by date for bar work). She found somewhere to live and I stood 6 months rent brought her a 2nd hand scooter job done.

I think it's all down to your conscience and the type of relationship you had together. 

[Bangkok Barry]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:37 AM, JoeBloe said:

Thanks folks.

It is as I had expected from a legal standpoint, up to my own internal model of the world what I am willing to offer.

Some more of the story.

Her father is dead (I paid a big lump of his funeral) and she is estranged from her family. As far as I can ascertain, this is between her and her mother.  Oldest daughters v. mothers is a thing in all cultures.

During my dealings with the family I have managed to secure the remaining part of the family farm for my GF plus some another small piece of land etc.. Every time the family needed money and I was expected to contribute, I traded a chanot for it, rather than straight charity. I offered to pay a large wad the other day to zero the family debt for the other part of the farm, but they apparently already agreed to sell it. Thai rural families are easy pray for loan sharks and banks. I gain no benefit for this, but I do not doubt my GF (and subsequently her son) would have ended with nothing without my intervention, so my contribution insured some of her farm stayed in family (her) hands. From my point of view, this is me giving her money.

My deal with her explicitly excluded marriage, it was that I would provide for everything incl. the boy's education and her only job was to be a full-time mother and a faithful partner. She did a pretty good job on the mother front and since she is a great cook, they both eat well. I have been faithful and kept everyone under my roof and given them a cosmopolitan lifestyle when we are outside Thailand.

One issue now appears to be she feels inferior to other Thai women because she doesn't have an expensive watch, lots of jewellery, a big bank balance and so on. She has developed an inferiority complex versus what she perceives other Thai woman receive from their farang partners. She has built up a massive "princess entitlement" position and she's angry about it. This is quite a new development.

I could throw gifts at her, but my experience is that she treats ear rings that cost 20 THB the same as those that cost 10,000 THB. A mistake I am not willing to make again so she can play princess around other women for a while.

There you go, a bit of pointless rambling about some of what is driving me out of my own home.  There are far deeper issues though, and there aren't solutions for those,. ????

Question: How can one reasonably hide knives from the chef?
 

From what you've written here, just tell her that if she isn't happy with what she has then she is free to leave. Simple as that. If she wants expensive stuff then she, not you, has to work for it. At the moment, it's take take take, but here's your dinner. As for her son, he is her responsibility, not yours.

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

From what you've written here, just tell her that if she isn't happy with what she has then she is free to leave. Simple as that. If she wants expensive stuff then she, not you, has to work for it. At the moment, it's take take take, but here's your dinner. As for her son, he is her responsibility, not yours.

Yeah, the number of old foreign fools that think they owe some local slapper a free ride is amazing.

Amazing Thailand!

[thomago]

6 hours ago, JoeBloe said:

This thread started with a question about legal status (answered). It is always wise to know the basic law before entering into a negotiation or contract.

Many years ago, I had lived together with my girlfriend for about 4 years. At that time, I didn't think about marriage but, like you, became concerned that my GF might acquire some legal rights simply by living together permanently.

 

Therefore, I discussed this potential issue with my lawyer. He confirmed that there is no common law marriage in Thailand and that -- legally speaking -- my GF/Partner would not be entitled to anything. However, he cautioned me of the following: If there should be a legal dispute, the Thai judge might well rule in my GF's favor (at least partially). When I questioned him about the rule of law versus the application of the law, he mentioned that he is aware of cases whereby the concept of common law marriage has been applied in Thailand.

 

My advice for you would be to obtain legal council to clarify your current legal position.

 

PS 1: The previous GF/Partner and I have been happily married and we have 2 lovely children.

 

PS 2: You sound like a very decent and empathic person. My best wishes and stay the way you are.

[thasoss]

As other's have said,because you and your lady are not married you do not have any legal responsibilities towards her.

From the information you have given it sounds like there is no way back.So the way forward is "how to extricate yourself"....with the least amount of damage.

You have said that you are the owner of the condo you live in and that does present a problem of "how to get her to leave peacefully"

Could I suggest that if possible you suggest a break from each other would do you both good.Suggest a visit to  her village and family would be a good cooling off period for you both and give her enough money for a weeks break.If that worked,it would give you time to change the locks,pack her stuff up and leave it with management,and find a place for yourself to rent....and change sim card.

Doing this will give you some peace, and time to think things through.

10 years together is a long time,and (only my opinion) she would deserve some financial recompense for those years.

It's a devil when thai ladies with farang partners get together and compare wealth and it can destroy relationships,but it happens all the time.Best way forward is to be resolute,lay down how you will play this out ....and give her some kind of pay out reasonable to both parties.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Subject to legal opinion, it appears your obligations are moral rather than legal. I should suggest you put together a package that you are comfortable with. The following proposed headings may help. Include definitive time periods and procedures to guarantee child support money is used for the child's expenses and not to be spent for her own benefits. I hope this helps. Have an agreement drawn up in Thai and English and formalised to prevent any future issues.

 

Lump Sum Cash Severence

Child Support including Medical and Education

Spousal Support

Child Visitation Rights

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

Well Joe, you did lots of good things in the past and still wants to be good to her.

However she changed her mind and doesnt seem to care. That's tough.

Dont let it get to you and set your mind correct, dealing with a break up. Your first one?

It doesnt matter, she is Thai. It can happen in every country, with every woman.

Ive been there and many other men with me. Also in my relations with women from several nationalities.

It doesnt matter if you do good. At one point there is a change and then it all runs down hill.

Ive seen, heard, lived all of those situations. It leaves you flabbergasted, but is an almost common reality.

 

Imo it is super rare to find a person, to be your friend or whatever more. Even family can have its burdens.

I dont believe Thailand has laws in this, so you could just walk away. Again your feelings are putting up a wall and you

want it to do nicely for mostly for her. You should think more about your self now and step up.

You read, there are men and they say, drop it , kick her out, walk on. Being nice doesnt help you, ok maybe if your

feelings of doing right and nice. But she doesnt.

Once i had contact with a married Thai woman, so i asked why. She was still married to have support and would change

if she find another guy, to instantly to get married with him. So it was a short contact with me, however she was honest about it.

 

 

 

[JoeBloe]

8 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Hmm ... what did her former husband die from ? You know that ?

Yes I know. A congenital health issue not relevant here.

[ChrisP24]

22 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

Before you give her the bad news, don't forget to secure all of your important documents, outside of the condo if you can.

 

Passport, bank cards, bank books, pension documents, title deeds, housebooks, spare property access cards and keys, vehicle registration books and spare keys, driving licenses, any documents from your home country and anything else that would be difficult to replace easily.

Yep.   Hope for the best, but plan for the worst and take steps before you tell her the news.  Maybe it will go just fine, but even if it does,  your own stress level will be lower if you've first done what you need to in order to limit possible damage. 

[JustAnotherHun]

I would say she has a moral right to get support after 10 years.

[JoeBloe]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yeah, the number of old foreign fools that think they owe some local slapper a free ride is amazing.

Amazing Thailand!

Should I infer from your post that I am old or that my GF is "a slapper"? 

That is about as far from the truth as it could possibly be.

[JoeBloe]

27 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I would say she has a moral right to get support after 10 years.

I don't disagree.

This is not something I want to do, my hand is being forced by a situation that cannot be adequately controlled - or I would control it!

[JustAnotherHun]

7 minutes ago, JoeBloe said:

I don't disagree.

This is not something I want to do, my hand is being forced by a situation that cannot be adequately controlled - or I would control it!

I hope things will turn out ok for both of you.

[DJ54]

OP in regards to your question it sounds like legally you’re not required to do anything except 

what you want to do.

 

I’m divorced long ago and split everything and the reason we was had a lot of great years together.

Sometimes life changes people ... and 20 years later are friends and cherished the great times we had....  I won’t go into a long story just do what you feel is right and it sort it’s way out,,, 

 

i dont think anyone was born thinking how to rip someone off.. .. they’ve learned it some how and 

hopefully being decent about a situation makes then think...hey maybe the BS people taught me is

not true,., people deserve a chance to try and make their better.. 

 

Me personally to give someone the boot without a little cushion... ... I believe in Karma and someday 

Life may become difficult and I wouldn’t want the boot without a cushion..

 

All the Best to you and hope it all sorts out..

 

[ChrisP24]

JoeBloe, good luck and I hope you post an update on how it goes (and I also hope we only read about it here instead of seeing it on any of the Thai news channels).

[LarrySR]

Have you hidden the kitchen knives yet?

That’s the first thing I did when she started going berserk. 
Shortly thereafter her sisters showed up, barged thru the door and attacked me with their shoes, Did I mention the police showed up and took me away? I think the neighbors heard the commotion and called them. 

Of course the cops weren’t able to extort me, had to let me go after my attorney showed up because I didn’t do anything wrong. I went back to my room and it had been ransacked by my wife’s family, even my passport gone. 
 

Then I got calls from my worried friends and family, counseling about my ‘drug problem’ and ‘abusive behavior’….….I don’t even take aspirin or drink or ever raised a hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

Yeah , when they say that they love you , you cannot be sure of that ... but when they hate you , they really do ...

[JoeBloe]

2 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Have you hidden the kitchen knives yet?

That’s the first thing I did when she started going berserk. 
Shortly thereafter her sisters showed up, barged thru the door and attacked me with their shoes, Did I mention the police showed up and took me away? I think the neighbors heard the commotion and called them. 

Of course the cops weren’t able to extort me, had to let me go after my attorney showed up because I didn’t do anything wrong. I went back to my room and it had been ransacked by my wife’s family, even my passport gone. 
 

Then I got calls from my worried friends and family, counseling about my ‘drug problem’ and ‘abusive behavior’….….I don’t even take aspirin or drink or ever raised a hand. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, Thai women apparently have no problem slandering their former partners and telling tall stories to the police as punishment. Hiring hit men is a thing too, I know.

The rage in this one is severe. It won't end well.

[Sandboxer]

I have nothing of value to contribute, but just wanna say that you sound like an intelligent, articulate, reasonable and overall great guy (and all without being a simp) that I wish the Thailand expatsphere had more of. Best of luck with the situation.

[LarrySR]

Thai women hires hitman. 
 

https://thecinemaholic.com/where-is-richard-moores-ex-wife-chansamorn-pokai-now/

[JoeBloe]

2 hours ago, Sandboxer said:

I have nothing of value to contribute, but just wanna say that you sound like an intelligent, articulate, reasonable and overall great guy (and all without being a simp) that I wish the Thailand expatsphere had more of. Best of luck with the situation.

Thank you.

[BKKTRAVELER]

Just finished reading the whole thread and I truly feel for you OP. You have all your answers by now, so I won't add to it.

 

I just want to ask this: is your relationship with her really at the point of no return? I mean, it seems that things were fine for almost 10 years and that must have created strong bonds hopefully. Have you really taken the time to sit down with her when she sounds more "rational" and see if a compromise could be worked out between you two. You seem like a caring person, so I believe you would be up to try and make it work with her. She may be acting out now, but if you talk to her about the fact that you're not seeing this relationship going further if she doesn't change her behavior, she may react better than you'd expect. People usually take others for granted until they lose them, give her the opportunity to not fall in that trap. Lay down your terms.

 

It may be really naïve of me, but too many people make relationship decisions without actually talking to their partners and regret them later. Many breakups could be avoided in my opinion. I don't think people can fundamentally change, but they can adapt. Maybe also ask her what she would like from you that you could change, aside from money.

 

In any case, I wish you good luck.