Why so many chinese cars MG cars ? do people only care to buy something cheap, whatever is the quality ?

[Adumbration]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:45 PM, London Lowf said:

In the sixties some people laughed at Japanese motorbikes, and then in the seventies Japanese cars.

 

China is taking over as the manufacturing hub of the world and there is nothing to stop it as, at the end of the day, people want cheap stuff - and it's not necessarily poor quality.

China's industrial base will collapse entirely within this decade.  The country suffers from a critical inverted population pyramid.  Were is the labor going to come from to run this manufacturing hub.

[London Lowf]

2 hours ago, Adumbration said:

China's industrial base will collapse entirely within this decade.  The country suffers from a critical inverted population pyramid.  Were is the labor going to come from to run this manufacturing hub.

In ten years time it seems that there will be very little need for human labour - or brainpower nfor that matter.

 

I'll be popping off around then so I don't really care.

Edited May 3, 2023 by London Lowf

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Adumbration said:

China's industrial base will collapse entirely within this decade.  The country suffers from a critical inverted population pyramid.  Were is the labor going to come from to run this manufacturing hub.

You clearly haven't visited a motor factory in the last 20 years or so

[ThailandRyan]

11 hours ago, Adumbration said:

China's industrial base will collapse entirely within this decade.  The country suffers from a critical inverted population pyramid.  Were is the labor going to come from to run this manufacturing hub.

Remember that not all of the models owned by SAIC, BYD, GWM are being built in China.  The MG's are being built here in Thailand, and new factories for BYD are going in or are already building cars here.

[Adumbration]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Remember that not all of the models owned by SAIC, BYD, GWM are being built in China.  The MG's are being built here in Thailand, and new factories for BYD are going in or are already building cars here.

Thailand also has an inverted population pyramid.  It is not as critical as China (because of the one child policy) but it is still a serious problem for the future of Thailand.  Did you miss all the recent articles posted here about Thailand's ageing population.

 

Smart business are relocating out of Thailand and China and moving to Vietnam and Myanmar.  Not for political reasons but for long term access to labor.  Have a look at the population pyramid for Myanmar:

 

https://www.populationpyramid.net/myanmar/2019/

 

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Thailand also has an inverted population pyramid.  It is not as critical as China (because of the one child policy) but it is still a serious problem for the future of Thailand.  Did you miss all the recent articles posted here about Thailand's ageing population.

 

Smart business are relocating out of Thailand and China and moving to Vietnam and Myanmar.  Not for political reasons but for long term access to labor.  Have a look at the population pyramid for Myanmar:

 

https://www.populationpyramid.net/myanmar/2019/

 

You might want to do some more research as far as the manufacturing goes, and it has nothing to do with Thailands ageing population.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-supply-chains-moving-companies-outside-mainland-2023-4?op=1

 

As Southeast Asia's second-largest economy, Thailand has been moving up the value chain in manufacturing and is a production hub for car parts, vehicles, and electronics, with multinationals such as Sony and Sharp setting up shop there.

And Chinese companies aren't too far behind either.

For instance, Chinese companies have relocated parts of their supply chains to Thailand. Companies producing solar panels, such as Shanghai's JinkoSolar, are moving their production to the island nation to take advantage of lower costs and avoid geopolitical tensions, the South China Morning Post reported in July.

Chinese car-parts manufacturers are also making their way to Thailand due to pressure from their overseas clients who are now wary of relying too much on China and over geopolitical tensions, Bloomberg reported on April 11, citing car-parts suppliers.

[Adumbration]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You might want to do some more research as far as the manufacturing goes, and it has nothing to do with Thailands ageing population.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-supply-chains-moving-companies-outside-mainland-2023-4?op=1

 

As Southeast Asia's second-largest economy, Thailand has been moving up the value chain in manufacturing and is a production hub for car parts, vehicles, and electronics, with multinationals such as Sony and Sharp setting up shop there.

And Chinese companies aren't too far behind either.

For instance, Chinese companies have relocated parts of their supply chains to Thailand. Companies producing solar panels, such as Shanghai's JinkoSolar, are moving their production to the island nation to take advantage of lower costs and avoid geopolitical tensions, the South China Morning Post reported in July.

Chinese car-parts manufacturers are also making their way to Thailand due to pressure from their overseas clients who are now wary of relying too much on China and over geopolitical tensions, Bloomberg reported on April 11, citing car-parts suppliers.

I dont need to research.  It is a mathematical certainty Thailand will not have enough labor in the next decade.  Pinch is already being felt in Hospitality industry here did you miss those articles as well?  And how will China import and export car parts, and cars, when the conflict in the South China Sea kicks off?

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

I dont need to research.  It is a mathematical certainty Thailand will not have enough labor in the next decade.  Pinch is already being felt in Hospitality industry here did you miss those articles as well?  And how will China import and export car parts, and cars, when the conflict in the South China Sea kicks off?

When and if a conflict kicks off the world supply of everything will be affected, much like it was during Covid when cars could not be assembled to completion due to Chip issues.  Current volitivity in the Ukraine has also reduced exports of food stuffs.  If we have another major conflict the whole world will be affected when it comes to parts for cars no matter where they will be coming from.  Local factories will need to be built in order to build all in house, and one day things will look like they did 40 years ago. Nothing is a mathematical certainty, unless things stay status quo and outside forces do not come into play.

 

My MG HS-X is now 3 years old, runs like a top, and has only had one issue and that was caused by a defective battery which was replaced under warranty.  I have now over 30k KM's on it.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 minute ago, Adumbration said:

And how will China import and export car parts, and cars, when the conflict in the South China Sea kicks off?

Well, I guess you really don't need to do research when you can predict the future.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Remember that not all of the models owned by SAIC, BYD, GWM are being built in China.  The MG's are being built here in Thailand, and new factories for BYD are going in or are already building cars here.

Cheap labour and tax and other givernment incentives (v.BOI) decide where cars are built.

But modern car plants are almost empty of people. It depends on the product.

In Thailand cars are built to varying degrees according to Thai regulations. TKD requires only imported parts but there are import duties.

To avoid the taxes a certain amount of the car must be manufactured from scratch in the country 

 

[transam]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

You clearly haven't visited a motor factory in the last 20 years or so

The MG, a British car, well it says so on the boot, ????, but in reality one is buying a ride made with Chinese materials, probably the reason they can undercut others in the price range.

In my longish life, I have bought many Chinese made items that have failed or fallen apart, including my wheelbarrow, no undercoat and cr_p metal, rusted away in short order.......????

 

So why would I think their cars are any different. I mean, they bought a retired British brand name, which they use as a smoke screen.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Pink Mist
Troll portion of post removed

[Pink Mist]

A reported troll post and reply have been removed.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, transam said:

British car, well it says so on the boot

It says "MG" - stands for Morris Garages, but nowhere does it claim to be British.

Since Brexit, dozens of British brands have either moved or been sold abroad or are foreign owned.

Edited May 4, 2023 by kwilco

[transam]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

It says "MG" - stands for Morris Garages, but nowhere does it claim to be British.

Since Brexit, dozens of British brands have either moved or been sold abroad.

You see, you know nothing about the Chinese MG...

 

MG is the racing logo of Morris Garages, their basic cars are called  ...MORRIS..........

On the rear of the Chinese rides there is a badge, even the Chinese Maxus truck has an MG variant, 100% Chinese except the MG bling..

 

The Chinese MG quotes in their MG advertising, since 1924.....????

 

Here is the boot badge.....????

 

 

Here is

[In the jungle]

1 hour ago, transam said:

You see, you know nothing about the Chinese MG...

 

MG is the racing logo of Morris Garages, their basic cars are called  ...MORRIS..........

On the rear of the Chinese rides there is a badge, even the Chinese Maxus truck has an MG variant, 100% Chinese except the MG bling..

 

The Chinese MG quotes in their MG advertising, since 1924.....????

 

Here is the boot badge.....????

 

 

Here is

 

Speaking as somebody born in Abingdon I find this profoundly dishonest.

 

[KhunLA]

22 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Remember that not all of the models owned by SAIC, BYD, GWM are being built in China.  The MG's are being built here in Thailand, and new factories for BYD are going in or are already building cars here.

MG's EVs, are imported, for now, from China, the BEVs (ZS) anyway, as not sure about the other EV versions.   

 

A good thing, I think, though may not matter since SAIC/MG is making.   But the Toyotas & Mazdas made here, that we owned (Vios (2) & Mazda 2 (1) were a bit lacking in comfort, over the road.   Drivetrain, no issues, but ride & noise levels at highway speed/90kph were krap.  A few baht more and the MG ZS ICE was comfy & quiet in comparison, with the ZS EV even more so.

 

My experience & opinion anyway.  

Others that never owned may have a different opinion ????

[Gweiloman]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:54 PM, spidermike007 said:

Time will tell if these cars can truly rival the build quality of the Japanese rivals. I don't think they ever will. 

Any basis for saying this? Or just ingrained bias?

[Kwasaki]

43 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Any basis for saying this? Or just ingrained bias?

Yeah don't understand peoples comments like that about Chinese car manufacturers they use to say the same about Japanese cars. 

[HauptmannUK]

Apart from in battery technology (CATL Lithium Ion) the Chinese do not yet have the domestic expertise and IPR to produce cars which would be competitive on the international market.  EVERY Chinese-branded vehicle sold outside China is predominantly using European, American and Japanese technology. SAIC (who inherited rights to the MG brand name when they bought Nanjing Auto) is in effect 'GM China'.  SAIC petrol engines are GM engines, the SGE and MGE engines, developed around 15 years ago by GM-Opel in Germany. These same engines are built in Flint, Michigan, and Korea, using the same equipment as in China (from Hirata, Japan). They're the same engines used in small GM cars such as the Cruze and the now-defunct GM Europe products such as the Opel Corsa/Astra/Insignia etc. They suffer the same problems (weak timing chains and coil pack failures).  If a turbo it fitted then its a Mitsubishi. The MG transmissions are a GM manual box, a DCT auto (supplied in kit form by BorgWarner in Dalian and assembled by SAICs 'Gearworks' - 'SAGW'). These are BW DualTronic three-shaft wet clutch 'boxes, designed in Germany. Fundamentally these are the same core units as supplied to VW/Audi Group ('DSG' branded) but with a simpler and cheaper mechatronic control unit. The CVTs are Bosch, made under licence by SAGW. Apparently the Bosch units have been problematic so currently Aisin (Toyota) CVT units are being used.

MG platforms are GM platforms. Specifically the GEM ('Global Emerging Market') and the so-called 'PATAC-K' platform which is a cost-reduced Chevrolet D2 chassis with and also used in cars like the Buick Excelle, Chevrolet Cavalier - amongst numerous others.

MG BEV's use GM BEV platforms with power electronics designed by DriveTec of Switzerland (now owned by BW).

If you want to go out and buy a Haval (GWM) - well, their petrol engines (with code 4G) are Mitsubishi units built under licence. Engines with code GW are based on fairly ancient Toyota blocks with new heads developed by GWM/Toyota to meet modern emissions requirements.  The blocks are R4 and R5 last used by Toyota in the 1980s.  The Haval Diesel is an Isuzu unit built under licence.  In fact most Diesel engines made in China are some version or other of an Isuzu unit.  Havel electric drives are designed and supplied by BorgWarner.  DCT transmissions are basically the same BW units supplied to SAIC.  Havel TC-epicyclic autoboxes are ZF (Friedrichshafen, Germany) 8HP units built in China.

Anyway, to all of you driving 'MG's, you're actually driving a 'GM'.

MG, Haval, Maxus etc are all 'challenger brands' designed to capture market share through pricing. 

You can probably guess that I've 'been there and got the T-shirt' on this stuff. In fact you might be able to guess which supplier I did some work for....

[GammaGlobulin]

The MGB was a great car in the 1960s.

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Any basis for saying this? Or just ingrained bias?

Yes. It is very well known that most Japanese products are far superior to most Chinese products. This is not a secret. When given a choice between made in Japan and made in China, which do most of us pick? Nothing has changed. China makes some quality products, like the iphones, some computers, etc. But, they also make an enormous amount of junk. I would definitely not trust my life with one of their cars. No thanks. 

[KhunLA]

"Chinese cars are among the safest of 2022 in the EuroNCAP tests"

https://time.news/chinese-cars-are-among-the-safest-of-2022-in-the-euroncap-tests/

[Furioso]

My neighbor bought a MG HS. He first looked at the ZS but it didn't have a turbo and was a little too basic. Wanting a little more he test drove the HS and he was really impressed, a much smoother and powerful ride with turbo and dual clutch. They gave him quite a discount, he ended up talking them down from 1.1 million to around 980 thousand.

 

I was very dubious that the HS was going to be any good but once I got inside I was pretty shocked how nice the interior is. Then we took a couple of trips up to the recent Bangkok auto shows, once again, very surprised. I've been a big fan of Japanese cars for over 40 years I thought I would find many faults with his MG. But I have to be honest, so far I haven't found any. 

 

He's had the HS for around a year and a half, taken many long trips and had zero problems. Man, he loves his cars too, takes excellent care both in cleanliness and maintenance.

 

He does admit he doesn't know how the reliability will hold up, that's the one thing that hasn't been answered. But so far I can only say his HS is much, much better than I expected. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Furioso

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Apart from in battery technology (CATL Lithium Ion) the Chinese do not yet have the domestic expertise and IPR to produce cars which would be competitive on the international market.  EVERY Chinese-branded vehicle sold outside China is predominantly using European, American and Japanese technology. SAIC (who inherited rights to the MG brand name when they bought Nanjing Auto) is in effect 'GM China'.  SAIC petrol engines are GM engines, the SGE and MGE engines, developed around 15 years ago by GM-Opel in Germany. These same engines are built in Flint, Michigan, and Korea, using the same equipment as in China (from Hirata, Japan). They're the same engines used in small GM cars such as the Cruze and the now-defunct GM Europe products such as the Opel Corsa/Astra/Insignia etc. They suffer the same problems (weak timing chains and coil pack failures).  If a turbo it fitted then its a Mitsubishi. The MG transmissions are a GM manual box, a DCT auto (supplied in kit form by BorgWarner in Dalian and assembled by SAICs 'Gearworks' - 'SAGW'). These are BW DualTronic three-shaft wet clutch 'boxes, designed in Germany. Fundamentally these are the same core units as supplied to VW/Audi Group ('DSG' branded) but with a simpler and cheaper mechatronic control unit. The CVTs are Bosch, made under licence by SAGW. Apparently the Bosch units have been problematic so currently Aisin (Toyota) CVT units are being used.

MG platforms are GM platforms. Specifically the GEM ('Global Emerging Market') and the so-called 'PATAC-K' platform which is a cost-reduced Chevrolet D2 chassis with and also used in cars like the Buick Excelle, Chevrolet Cavalier - amongst numerous others.

MG BEV's use GM BEV platforms with power electronics designed by DriveTec of Switzerland (now owned by BW).

If you want to go out and buy a Haval (GWM) - well, their petrol engines (with code 4G) are Mitsubishi units built under licence. Engines with code GW are based on fairly ancient Toyota blocks with new heads developed by GWM/Toyota to meet modern emissions requirements.  The blocks are R4 and R5 last used by Toyota in the 1980s.  The Haval Diesel is an Isuzu unit built under licence.  In fact most Diesel engines made in China are some version or other of an Isuzu unit.  Havel electric drives are designed and supplied by BorgWarner.  DCT transmissions are basically the same BW units supplied to SAIC.  Havel TC-epicyclic autoboxes are ZF (Friedrichshafen, Germany) 8HP units built in China.

Anyway, to all of you driving 'MG's, you're actually driving a 'GM'.

MG, Haval, Maxus etc are all 'challenger brands' designed to capture market share through pricing. 

You can probably guess that I've 'been there and got the T-shirt' on this stuff. In fact you might be able to guess which supplier I did some work for....

Good stuff,  it brings to mind in my 1960 onwards car time that 5 of the most reliable cars I had were GM. 

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yes. It is very well known that most Japanese products are far superior to most Chinese products. This is not a secret. When given a choice between made in Japan and made in China, which do most of us pick? Nothing has changed. China makes some quality products, like the iphones, some computers, etc. But, they also make an enormous amount of junk. I would definitely not trust my life with one of their cars. No thanks. 

Once again, your personal opinion does not make it a fact. To be honest, I would be hard pressed to name a single Japanese product I own. My ac is LG as is my Tv and fridge. M fridge freezer is cheap charlie Chinese brand (still works perfectly after 5 yrs). Air purifier, dehumidifier, robot vacuum etc all Chinese. Oh, I remember, one Jap product, a 5 yr old Mazda, that only starts intermittently and dealer’s workshop can’t even identify the problem. I do also own 3 Shoei helmets - top product.

 

China does make a lot of cheap and lower quality products (what you refer to as junk) - they are made to a price point. For eg, you can buy a Chinese made reciprocating saw for half the price of a Makita or De Walt. But unless you are a professional user or a prosumer, the Chinese one will more than satisfy your requirements. Why waste money unnecessarily or worse, deprive yourself of that tool because it’s too expensive? Chinese made products has been a boon to DIYers the world over. And lots of professional woodworkers will tell you that there are many Chinese made products that are on par with Japanese and European made ones at a more affordable price.

 

Get over your prejudices.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Once again, your personal opinion does not make it a fact.

But of course yours does? 

[Doctor Tom]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:34 AM, kwilco said:

some of the highest quality products in ANY field..... c

Their aircraft are terrible.  To date, they have not be able to design and build a jet capable of operating off a carrier.  Their civil aircraft are poor, uneconomic  knock off designs that don't meet western spec. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Doctor Tom

[transam]

2 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Their aircraft are terrible.  To date, they have not be able to design and build a jet capable of operating off a carrier.  Their civil aircraft are poor, uneconomic  knock off designs that don't meet western spec. 

And strangely here, their cars are the nuts....................

[Gweiloman]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

But of course yours does? 

Anything I said that wasn’t factual?

[Ralf001]

20 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The MGB was a great car in the 1960s.

By 60's standards maybe.