Immigration seem to be deliberately making marriage extensions more difficult

[Wookie]

4 minutes ago, bbko said:

What questions do they ask of the witness?  Where I live there's 3 huge open fields surrounding me and I never interact with the Thais next door.  My wife said she can call a cousin or aunt to act as a witness, but I'm not sure immigration will accept them as a legit witness.  I was thinking of asking the nearby mom & pop shop to vouch for me (tipping them for their time) but it seems weird to call in someone I vaguely know to act as a witness for my marriage.

They asked the witness personal questions about their job and income, how long they had known us, what are our names etc. They had to bring their Tabien Baans and ID cards with photocopies which they had to countersign

[Old Croc]

One of the things I knew about this country when I decided to retire is that many things work differently here from my home country. Thailand is not Britain, Australia nor any other more structured western country.

Yes, there is a high level of minor corruption here, but it is an ingrained part of the local system and usually helps keep costs down and the wheels turning. 

Every time I build a structure on a property, from a tool shed, chicken house or even a main residence, I give thanks to the system here that allows me to bypass the numerous permits, moribund rule books and never ending permissions required back home. When I told a friend in Australia how quickly my new house was completed he was astonished, saying I would still be waiting for a building permit there.

Fines here, despite never having to pay one, are so small they would have no impact on my income. I've never seen a booze bus nor speed trap here. In Australia, several times, it has cost me hundreds of $s for going a couple of ks over the limit.  I don't care if fine money goes into someone's pocket here, at least I know it's not going into a computer record to blacken my name for evermore.

Thailand is corrupt, but most of the small bribes are to everyone's advantage. I pay them so I can get on with my life. I'm not "scared" when I give an Immigration official some lunch money. It get's him out of my house and smooths the waters for my application.

Of course I despise big corrupt schemes engineered by greedy officials and big businessmen in Thailand. That's the western system that seems to becoming more  prevalent here. However, I have no interest in tilting at  windmills, preferring instead to live quietly and avoid conflict.

 

 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

You try it when its print your full name and then sign underneath 100 times ! total of 180 signatures last year ! (took me back to kid writing lines in school). We also had 25 minutes to do it in before it was back the next day.

Curved ball they threw me was they wanted previous passports and every page in them photicopied No mention of this 2 weeks prior when I checked what was needed this time !

Previous passports?

Sorry, my government took them back to destroy them.

????????????

[Wookie]

3 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

One of the things I knew about this country when I decided to retire is that many things work differently here from my home country. Thailand is not Britain, Australia nor any other more structured western country.

Yes, there is a high level of minor corruption here, but it is an ingrained part of the local system and usually helps keep costs down and the wheels turning. 

Every time I build a structure on a property, from a tool shed, chicken house or even a main residence, I give thanks to the system here that allows me to bypass the numerous permits, moribund rule books and never ending permissions required back home. When I told a friend in Australia how quickly my new house was completed he was astonished, saying I would still be waiting for a building permit there.

Fines here, despite never having to pay one, are so small they would have no impact on my income. I've never seen a booze bus nor speed trap here. In Australia, several times, it has cost me hundreds of $s for going a couple of ks over the limit.  I don't care if fine money goes into someone's pocket here, at least I know it's not going into a computer record to blacken my name for evermore.

Thailand is corrupt, but most of the small bribes are to everyone's advantage. I pay them so I can get on with my life. I'm not "scared" when I give an Immigration official some lunch money. It get's him out of my house and smooths the waters for my application.

Of course I despise big corrupt schemes engineered by greedy officials and big businessmen in Thailand. That's the western system that seems to becoming more  prevalent here. However, I have no interest in tilting at  windmills, preferring instead to live quietly and avoid conflict.

 

 

You are lucky if you haven't seen any speed traps. Driving from Hua Hin to Bangkok there are normally three or four on the way. They used to be manned by police but now they leave them to operate automatically during the daytime

[Thingamabob]

Extensions based on marriage and income are the most complicated of the available options, while extensions based on retirement and 800k permanently on deposit are the most simple. Why did you want to switch from retirement to marriage ?

[berrec]

Yes, IMHO each year I went for my marriage visa extension (CW) it became more difficult with always a new reason for initial rejection.

 

In the end I gave up and went to a retirement visa; now a piece of cake.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:
The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements. I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no,

 

I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? 

 

I use the marriage visa, and they inevitably like to throw in something, to increase the difficulty of the process. Frankly, I think at least some of this comes from the rather extreme level of xenophobia and the toxic racism of the army. It filters down throughout the government. I do not think they want us here. And making these procedures difficult is one way of expressing that. 
 
Fortunately, I feel very little of that sentiment from the non governmental Thai people. 

Again its the inconsistency - My last one in my old hometown, Hat Yai was finished in 25 minutes without any stress. We waited outside for 30 minutes because we didn't have a copy of the bankbook and they took a screenshot of my internet banking app.

 

Im looking forward to the games in March as I have now moved provinces, after 4 years of extensions, what purpose does it serve dragging a couple of villagers that have only known me for 9 months?

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Wookie said:

I and my wife had to sign EVERYTHING again. I would never pay 20,000 baht for an agent. 

 

I wpuldnt pay 20 000 baht for an agent either. I think it costs me about 3000 for the annual renewal and all i have to do is get the bank letter.. i go to the agent and they flip the pages and say sihn here maybe 6 or 7x and then we go to immigration and are out in literally 5 minutes. And i know that everything is done properly and so does the io as all is prepared not by me but someone who knows what to do ... sure i could do it myself but it is not a big expense for me.. 

[overherebc]

45 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Previous passports?

Sorry, my government took them back to destroy them.

????????????

@CharlieH

In my case that would be 4 x 90 page passports so just say you hand then back when you get a new one. In my case (uk) 

you get the choice.

Obviously in the case of a valid visa in your oid PP you keep it.

[chalawaan]

23 hours ago, Wookie said:

I guess 45,000 couldn't put up with it any longer

I'm one of them. Back to NZ get free/assisted govt training as a truckie/bus driver, they're screaming for drivers of anything big here right now. Missus holding the fort until the Sukhumvit condo renovated to luxury standard then it's a managed rental. She's coming over here on a marriage sponsorship  and has good enough written English to get at least a job at Starbucks or Pak n Slave. We'll nip back over to Kalaland between coups for longish holidays during the southern winter, that's low season in Thailand.

The million baht I needed to maintain to jump thru the retirement hoops is paying for a mortgage downpayment on a cheaper rural-ish property in NZ, which we'll use as a part Airbnb to help pay it off.

And the brutes in brown just lost almost all of our disposable income, including the condo rent which will buy offshore crypto on a dollar cost averaging basis.

So long and thanks for all the fish!

[Wookie]

40 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Extensions based on marriage and income are the most complicated of the available options, while extensions based on retirement and 800k permanently on deposit are the most simple. Why did you want to switch from retirement to marriage ?

Because I am going to be doing some part time work and you can't get a work permit with a retirement extension

[toofarnorth]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:49 PM, Wookie said:

I think if I did that my next application would be in jeopardy !

.......................your job is in Jeopardy . But I don't want to go abroad .  The Goons circa 1960.

[CharlieH]

7 minutes ago, overherebc said:

@CharlieH

In my case that would be 4 x 90 page passports so just say you hand then back when you get a new one. In my case (uk) 

you get the choice.

Obviously in the case of a valid visa in your oid PP you keep it.

I tried that tack, so they said get a letter from the UK Embassy confirming it ! Then get that translated into Thai !  2 copies bring back with covering letter off me explaining etc and they will  consider it.

[billsmart]

Yes, much of what you describe (hand written, blue ink, etc.) has crept into the requirements for extending stay based on marriage. The only thing I can think of to explain it is, at least at my immigrations office (Phetchabun), a year extension based on marriage has to be sent to Chiang Mai for approval. One-year stay extensions based on retirement can be approved locally. So, this March, I'm switching my extension basis to retirement.

[Chongalulu]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:30 PM, DrJack54 said:

OP, all your points sound very minor to me....

The blue ink? Big deal.

The new forms? They are just acknowledgements. 

Mountain out of mole hill.

Apart from that I think anyone be it retirement or marriage choose the more difficult path using income method.

Money in bank bullet proof and so so easy for married guys. 

 

I think you’ve missed the point. Things are being made artificially more difficult (the excuses will be tailor made to your circumstances) and I think it’s to put pressure on to use an agent- for the reasons we are all well aware of !-. I’ve had several years of no problems using income method at my office,but this year providing exactly the same proofs (including all the fx documents) nonsense questions like " why did I bring in so MUCH money" (I brought in way above the requirements ) and where was I getting the money from ! None of which are germane to my application! 
It too was hinted at that next year ' it wouldn’t be accepted " ????.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, nchuckle said:

I think you’ve missed the point. Things are being made artificially more difficult (the excuses will be tailor made to your circumstances) and I think it’s to put pressure on to use an agent- for the reasons we are all well aware of !-. I’ve had several years of no problems using income method at my office,but this year providing exactly the same proofs (including all the fx documents) nonsense questions like " why did I bring in so MUCH money" (I brought in way above the requirements ) and where was I getting the money from ! None of which are germane to my application! 
It too was hinted at that next year ' it wouldn’t be accepted " ????.

Which immigration office.

[overherebc]

53 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I tried that tack, so they said get a letter from the UK Embassy confirming it ! Then get that translated into Thai !  2 copies bring back with covering letter off me explaining etc and they will  consider it.

When you renew (PP) ask for a letter saying old PP returned to gov' office for disposal??

I wonder if they would do it for you.

[Chongalulu]

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Which immigration office.

I’m reluctant to specify in case of potential comeback,but it’s one generally regarded as formerly being relatively easy and helpful to deal with and we always dress smartly ,have all the correct paperwork and are very polite.I noticed a couple of others in there seemingly having issues,hence my implication that something might have changed..

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

I noticed a couple of others in there seemingly having issues,hence my implication that something might have changed..

Not interested in guessing games.

Accounts of dealings with immigration are useless without the name of office..

[Chongalulu]

41 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not interested in guessing games.

Accounts of dealings with immigration are useless without the name of office..

It wasn’t a post solely directed to you! It’s a wider discussion about a possible general trend in immigration which might be of interest to others.

You have the option to do us all a favour by walking away ! 

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, Wookie said:

They asked the witness personal questions about their job and income, how long they had known us, what are our names etc. They had to bring their Tabien Baans and ID cards with photocopies which they had to countersign

Our witness is a quite attractive Thai lady ,her husband owns a rather large company ,they only ever asked her once what her income was , they all seemed to treat her with a very large amount of respect after that ????

as to people who talk about bribes ,in 26 yrs i have only once been asked for one about 15 yrs ago and it was regarding a traffic offence in BKK.

[Thingamabob]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:53 PM, daveAustin said:

Have stated as such on innumerable occasions since the junta took up office. Some won’t see any difference, but in general it does look like it’s getting trickier and marriage would be the first port of call for change. If they are indeed doing a squeeze, do folk think it’s in favour of incoming long stay visas for the well heeled and Elite visas?

Yes.

[TheScience]

Can't sign in black ink. It looks like the photocopy. This rule is as old as Rama 7.

[TheScience]

4 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

all is prepared not by me but someone who knows what to do ..

I've prepared my marriage extension paperwork for almost ten years. It's really nothing. What becomes the issue is the randomness of the IOs.

 

Agents for marriage visas are a total waste of money. At the end of the day you'll gather the identical docs as you would alone and you and your wife will go with them and sit there - you looking like a complete noob, rube and pigeon.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, TheScience said:

I've prepared my marriage extension paperwork for almost ten years. It's really nothing. What becomes the issue is the randomness of the IOs.

 

Agents for marriage visas are a total waste of money. At the end of the day you'll gather the identical docs as you would alone and you and your wife will go with them and sit there - you looking like a complete noob, rube and pigeon.

I never had a marriage visa... always retirement and did it all myself for about 20 years... most of that time in a small rural office and the same lady every year... I always found them friendly and helpful. The couple of times I created a problem through my own doing, they worked at helping me correct the situation... 

 

Randomness of officials can be an issue in many things. I imported to the USA and the duty was determined by the random officer who inspected my goods.

 

Good luck. 

[antony77]

If you have Thai.friendsn you won't have these problems. I always have a few thai

 friends along when I go to immigration  Thais make very loyal friends. 

 Your wife should have complained.

[Max Brok]

On 1/27/2022 at 5:49 PM, OneeyedJohn said:

That piece of flimsy red card they give you for marriage has 14 requirements on it, plus they demand you have 2 copies of everything.

I now have a 13 page photocopy of my passport after the last fiasco. That is what they will get everytime they ask for it.

 

 

They asked me 2 sets of copies but they needed one set copy and the originals to copy them self. The pictures they made also like at the airport. In The Netherland we call them klojo's

[connda]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:25 PM, herfiehandbag said:

1) Marriage extensions are more complicated than retirement extensions I am led to believe, therefore more work. They have to present to he dossiers upwards through several layers, and therefore if the paperwork is not to the liking of their seniors they cop the bollockings.

Which is not our fault.  After 10, 15, or 20 years of marriage, they could, streamline the process as it's not like you are faking the marriage. 

Have we ever heard of a foreign woman having this kind of problem with their Thai husband?  I never have.  So it doesn't have to be this way. 

Anyway, it's a money thing.  I'm not tying up 800K THB to make it easier for the IO.  If they don't like the marriage extensions, they should lobby parliament to change the xenophobic laws.  Again - if you've been married for 10, 15, 20+ years, the only reason for making the process complicated is racial hatred.

[Nickelbeer]

13 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Yet you can live in a foreign country be married to Thai and can't put 12k USD into a bank for couple of months.

The very money that you are then allowed to spend and live off, as the funds do not need to remain in the bank. Spare me. 

Your post made no sense, whatsoever. My understanding is that the funds DO have to stay in the bank. I came here with only a monthly pension and no "savings". All my savings have been pumped into an annuity and a Teacher's Pension plan over the years. Those are "savings" too and they pay off in perpetuity. I'm getting sick and tired of being chided for not bringing an impossible sum of money with me to Thailand, in order to satisfy arbitrary rules. Those rules were NOT in effect when I arrived here. so I kept MY part of the bargain. The Thai government was the one who moved the goalposts.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

My understanding is that the funds DO have to stay in the bank.

For extensions based on marriage using money in bank method, the requirement is 400k in bank for 2 months prior to application.

Also (advise) to maintain during the under consideration period.

So in effect approx 3 months.

After that the money can be used as you wish. Even withdraw total amount.