Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

15 hours ago, internationalism said:

unless it was a deliberate action by ukrainians - even without knowledge of their president and military command, just rouge nationalist element. An independent interrogation of those involved and investigation would show. But ukraine still denies it was their own missile. So answer won't be coming in the near future  

"unless it was a deliberate action by ukrainians - even without knowledge of their president and military command"

 

Stretching out the speculation there internationalism Where would you get that idea from I wonder, especially when the Ukraine military had already released this statement.

 

Ukraine says missile parts that landed in Poland may have been Ukrainian

In an interview Friday, he described an intense battle during which at least 50 missiles were flying through the air within a matter of minutes near the Polish border in western Ukraine, with at least 20 fired by Russia and 30 fired by Ukrainian air defenses as Russia launched its biggest attack yet on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. They were among a total of 96 missiles fired by Russia that day, 77 of which were shot down, he said.

“Anything could be the result of this air defense battle,” he said, acknowledging that at least some of the missile parts could have been Ukrainian.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/18/ukraine-missile-poland-nato-russia/

[Rimmer]

An unsubstantiated post trying to hijack the topic have been removed, topic is not about Scott Ritter

[Social Media]

 

[ballpoint]

One of the side effects of using paid mercenaries is seen in the fight for Bakhmut, a WW1 style battle where soldiers fire rifles at each other from muddy trenches, when not taking cover from artillery shells.  It's estimated that the Russians are losing around 100 soldiers a day fighting for a city that has little real strategic value.  Newly mobilised soldiers and conscripted prisoners are fighting alongside a core force of Wagner Group mercenaries, and are basically being used as disposable human probes by the latter, repeatedly being ordered to charge the Ukrainian lines in order to find the strongest defensive points, which are then targeted with mortar and artillery fire.  Human beings been fed into a mincer, and summarily shot on the spot if they refuse. 

 

Not only do the mercenaries not care about the lives of the common soldiers fighting for them, it's thought that the reason for the bloody battle is all about their getting paid, with Ukrainian military analyst Serhiy Grabskiy saying:

"...the Wagner Group was likely assigned the job of capturing Bakhmut by the Kremlin, and doing so will come with a significant financial reward — regardless of the number of Russian lives lost doing it.

Prigozhin "will play his role and show that he is an important component of the Russian military machine.

The only part of the long front line where Russia appears to have the capacity to go on the offensive is around Bakhmut, and it's important for the military to provide a battlefield success for Putin."

 

Why the battle for the small city of Bakhmut is so important to both Russia and Ukraine | CBC News

 

 

More on Bakhmut is also found in this report, along with the news that:

"The alleged daily losses are beginning to mount up as Russia is predicted to lose 100,000 soldiers in less than one year of war, according to Ukraine's Ministry of Defence.

This milestone could be reached as soon as this week or the next. This would be two months shy of the anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in late February 2022."

 

Russia Losing 100 Soldiers a Day in Bloody Battle for Bakhmut, Report (newsweek.com)

 

Putin must be very proud of himself.  I wonder how he'll celebrate?

[rudi49jr]

17 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Putin must be very proud of himself.  I wonder how he'll celebrate?

I’m quite sure Putin isn’t losing one second of sleep over this, he couldn’t care less how many lives have to be sacrificed to achieve his goals. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:02 PM, bannork said:

But we must see the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons from his perspective, his values, of which rationality is but one part. 

Should we back down faced with a madman prepared to destroy the world rather than lose face?

 

Given the possibility that everyone you know will die, how far do you want to go to oppose him when he's not ( presumably ) threatening your country with annihilation?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the possibility that everyone you know will die, how far do you want to go to oppose him when he's not ( presumably ) threatening your country with annihilation?

Given the certainty that giving in to Putin now will embolden him, and others, to use the threat of nuclear weapons to achieve his/their objectives, how far to you want to let them go before drawing the line?

[tgw]

41 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Given the certainty that giving in to Putin now will embolden him, and others, to use the threat of nuclear weapons to achieve his/their objectives, how far to you want to let them go before drawing the line?

the world needs to take this opportunity to show all wannabe nuclear warmongers that they will be stopped. at all costs.

if we don't this, any country without the bomb and not member of any nuclear defense alliance will be at risk.

[tgw]

Hungary blocks 18 billion euros of EU assistance for Ukraine.

Czech Finance Minister and EU Economic and Financial Affairs Council President (ECOFIN) Zbyněk Stanjura said that the EU is currently looking for another mechanism to start allocating funds to Ukraine.

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/hungary-blocks-18-billion-euros-of-eu-assistance-for-ukraine

 

=> Hungary has been annoying for a long time already, if Hungarians support this policy, why can't they be let out of the EU, so they can join Ruzzia's "Eurasian Economic Union" instead ?

[Bkk Brian]

Another strike by Ukraine within Russian territory on an airfield. Keep it up, those drones are doing wonders, three in a row now

 

Drone attack hits oil storage tank at airfield in Russia’s Kursk region

 

A drone attack has set an oil storage tank on fire at an airfield in Kursk, the Russian region’s governor has said, a day after Ukraine appeared to launch audacious drone attacks on two military airfields deep inside Russian territory.

Roman Starovoyt, the governor of the Kursk region bordering Ukraine, said on the Telegram messaging app there were no casualties from the attack and the fire was “localised”.

Video footage posted on social media showed a large explosion lighting up the night sky followed by a substantial fire at the airfield 175 miles (280km) from the Ukrainian border, at daybreak a large column of black smoke was still visible above the site.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/06/drone-attack-hits-oil-storage-tank-airfield-russia-kursk

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

the world needs to take this opportunity to show all wannabe nuclear warmongers that they will be stopped. at all costs.

if we don't this, any country without the bomb and not member of any nuclear defense alliance will be at risk.

Also, many countries without the bomb will want to acquire nuclear weapons in order to defend themselves and/or threaten others.

 

Like it or not, the U.S. must extend its nuclear umbrella to cover all allies and prove that it will stand firm against tyrants like Putin.  Otherwise nuclear weapons will proliferate even more than currently and the world will become much more dangerous.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, tgw said:

the world needs to take this opportunity to show all wannabe nuclear warmongers that they will be stopped. at all costs.

if we don't this, any country without the bomb and not member of any nuclear defense alliance will be at risk.

It's generally their choice not to ally with a nuclear armed state ( or because they are so toxic that no decent country wants them in the "club" ), so why is it our responsibility to protect them?

 

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's generally their choice not to ally with a nuclear armed state ( or because they are so toxic that no decent country wants them in the "club" ), so why is it our responsibility to protect them?

 

Does the phrase "enlightened self-interest" mean anything to you?

[ballpoint]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's generally their choice not to ally with a nuclear armed state ( or because they are so toxic that no decent country wants them in the "club" ), so why is it our responsibility to protect them?

 

In the case of Ukraine, it's because the US and UK guaranteed they would when it willingly gave up its share of Soviet nuclear warheads (it had a third of all warheads when the USSR broke up), and signed the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons Treaty in the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, exactly 28 years ago last Monday (Dec 5th).

 

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,

Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as non-nuclear-weapon State,

Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,

Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.

Confirm the following:

 

1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.

6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

 

 

UNTC

 

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts about the ignore list have been removed.

[Social Media]

 

[Social Media]

 

[ozimoron]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given the possibility that everyone you know will die, how far do you want to go to oppose him when he's not ( presumably ) threatening your country with annihilation?

He's threatening another country with annihilation and that's good enough for me. It was also good enough for my ancestors when they went to Europe to fight for your country.

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Replace Ukraine/Ukes by Russian(s) and you’d probably be a lot closer to the truth.

You'd expect nothing else from a Russian telegram propoganda channel.

[jvs]

2 hours ago, Black Ops said:

 

Can you tell me how to access these links you post?

I would like to read them or watch them but there is no way i can open them.

Lots of UK  stuff but i would like to know about the winter 'Stalemate'

 

[Social Media]

3 minutes ago, jvs said:

Can you tell me how to access these links you post?

I would like to read them or watch them but there is no way i can open them.

Lots of UK  stuff but i would like to know about the winter 'Stalemate'

 

There is a link provided inthe post :

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-belarus-to-move-equipment-and-security-forces-for-terrorism-response-checks-after-kyivs-warnings-it-could-enter-war-12541713

[bannork]

 

[tgw]

Moscow accuses Ukraine of drone attacks deep inside Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/05/europe/russia-ukraine-missiles-kyiv-zaporizhzhia-intl/index.html

 

"accuses" makes it sound like a bad thing ????

 

I mean... yes, and ??? what did Putin expect ??

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, tgw said:

Moscow accuses Ukraine of drone attacks deep inside Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/05/europe/russia-ukraine-missiles-kyiv-zaporizhzhia-intl/index.html

 

"accuses" makes it sound like a bad thing ????

 

I mean... yes, and ??? what did Putin expect ??

Yeah, cool. I don't care if eskimos did it. ????

[rudi49jr]

49 minutes ago, tgw said:

Moscow accuses Ukraine of drone attacks deep inside Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/05/europe/russia-ukraine-missiles-kyiv-zaporizhzhia-intl/index.html

 

"accuses" makes it sound like a bad thing ????

 

I mean... yes, and ??? what did Putin expect ??

He’s created this image of being a big manly macho, but Putin is a freaking coward who couldn’t beat up a nun. His idea of a fair fight is if six of his goons hold his opponent down while he can beat him up. If his opponent accidentally gets in a shot he runs home to mama, crying that it’s not fair. Such a hypocrite crybaby.

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, AnotherFarang8 said:

In my observations, the same people who rooted for covid lockdowns threatening that we will all be dead if we don’t give up our rights and take a jab and wear a mask not to kill granny, now jump out of pants to prove that Ukraine is somehow winning. Funny how any opinion alternative to the CNN and BBC echo chamber is wiped out of existence on this forum. Well, it ain’t so easy to censor reality on the ground.

Oh we're into the covid topic now on the Ukraine war OP. Is it not notable that Russian Trolls were evident and documented in large numbers deliberately spreading covid misinformation on social media outlets when the pandemic was ongoing, then when Russia attacked Ukraine they went silent on covid and switched their onslaught to Russian propaganda? Look it up its all there. Requires a little critical thinking and not being led like sheep into the conspiracy theories.

 

A poll in Austria found that most vaccinated Austrians believe Russia is responsible for the war in Ukraine, while the unvaccinated mostly blame the US and NATO.

 

 

(google translate)

Vaccination shy and loyal to Putin: the unvaccinated blame the USA for the Ukraine war

https://www.profil.at/oesterreich/was-sagt-der-impfstatus-ueber-die-einstellung-zu-putin-aus/402085051

[Rimmer]

Some troll, off topic and baiting posts removed

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, tgw said:

Moscow accuses Ukraine of drone attacks deep inside Russia

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/05/europe/russia-ukraine-missiles-kyiv-zaporizhzhia-intl/index.html

 

"accuses" makes it sound like a bad thing ????

 

I mean... yes, and ??? what did Putin expect ??

it's about time as UJkraine have been holding for too long.... Vlad should know the saying "what goes around comes around" hope they keep it up and do it on a daily basis or twice daily

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

it's about time as UJkraine have been holding for too long.... Vlad should know the saying "what goes around comes around" hope they keep it up and do it on a daily basis or twice daily

Yeah, maybe start doing some damage in Moscow and St. Petersburg as well, have the elite there cower in bomb shelters. Maybe that will speed up things a little.

[AnotherFarang8]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

A poll in Austria found that most vaccinated Austrians believe Russia is responsible for the war in Ukraine, while the unvaccinated mostly blame the US and NATO.

That’s a good one, confirms my observations precisely. Covid has always been an IQ test.

 

PS: lol, whatever, keep your little sandbox only to yourselves.

Edited December 8, 2022 by AnotherFarang8