Thai Airlines Urged to Conduct Inspection of Boeing 737-800

[Homburg]

12 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

look at the chart cruising at 457. Then at 7850 ft  590

I expect the speed shown is made up of vertical & horizontal components?  My posting was simply based on the numbers you quoted: (29000-7000) 22000 feet loss of altitude in 1 minute gives a vertical fall rate of 4.17miles/minute (5280 feet in a mile) which is 250mph/402kph, so certainly outside normal flight parameters, but not necessarily indicating a dive under power. 

[WingFat]

And of course, the Chinese pilots are fully competent and China Eastern Airlines kept up with the required maintenance of these airplanes...yeah right, B***S***. I've flown China Eastern Airlines before years ago...and decided never will I do again.

[bunnydrops]

3 minutes ago, Homburg said:

I expect the speed shown is made up of vertical & horizontal components?  My posting was simply based on the numbers you quoted: (29000-7000) 22000 feet loss of altitude in 1 minute gives a vertical fall rate of 4.17miles/minute (5280 feet in a mile) which is 250mph/402kph, so certainly outside normal flight parameters, but not necessarily indicating a dive under power. 

Yes that is average speed. starts at 0, tops out at 590. That is just falling speed in your calculation. The plane was still moving forward when it begain the fall at 457

[Sydebolle]

How interesting. While I've heard of Nok Air, Thai Lion Air, Thai Airways International and Thai Smile, two new fellows on the block, namely K-Mile Air and Thai Summer Airways seem to operate. 

Now the news hits the public with "airlines are urged to conduct" - what exactly does that mean? Until this is clear as well safety is back to where it was before, I - for one - refuse to use any 737-8xx.

Lion Air's crash in Indonesia as well as the Ethiopian desaster with almost brand new planes and very experienced crew had to be proven first just to show, that Boeing took shortcuts all the way to remain "competitive". Its CEO Dennis Muilenburg got fired as the shareholder value of Boeing subsequently nosedived finally and as the identified scapegoat.

US Senator Elisabeth Warren said regarding the payment by Boeing to Muilenberg in very clear language: "346 people died. Muilenburg put profits ahead of the safety of passengers, pilots, and flight attendants and then walked away with $62.2 million. This is corruption, plain and simple." Of course nothing happened ever after and Muilenburg showed up on other boards after a "well-deserved break from his crooked past". 

Good on Muilenburg; I meanwhile chose not to use any airline with a chance to be seated on a 737-8XX, simple as that! And to the Thai regulators I suggest to do a little more than just "urge" ???? 

[chiman]

737 (minus the Max, which Boeing should never have launched like they did) is one of the safest planes every built.  

[Isaan sailor]

NTSB says all options on the table.  Good to do safety checks.  Very unusual for a 737-800 to go nose down nearly vertical from cruising altitude.  Any pilot can force a nosedive.  RIP to passengers and crew.

[Ralf001]

18 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Lion Air's crash in Indonesia as well as the Ethiopian desaster with almost brand new planes

They were 737-MAX, not 737-800 like this China plane.

[Isaan sailor]

18 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

How interesting. While I've heard of Nok Air, Thai Lion Air, Thai Airways International and Thai Smile, two new fellows on the block, namely K-Mile Air and Thai Summer Airways seem to operate. 

Now the news hits the public with "airlines are urged to conduct" - what exactly does that mean? Until this is clear as well safety is back to where it was before, I - for one - refuse to use any 737-8xx.

Lion Air's crash in Indonesia as well as the Ethiopian desaster with almost brand new planes and very experienced crew had to be proven first just to show, that Boeing took shortcuts all the way to remain "competitive". Its CEO Dennis Muilenburg got fired as the shareholder value of Boeing subsequently nosedived finally and as the identified scapegoat.

US Senator Elisabeth Warren said regarding the payment by Boeing to Muilenberg in very clear language: "346 people died. Muilenburg put profits ahead of the safety of passengers, pilots, and flight attendants and then walked away with $62.2 million. This is corruption, plain and simple." Of course nothing happened ever after and Muilenburg showed up on other boards after a "well-deserved break from his crooked past". 

Good on Muilenburg; I meanwhile chose not to use any airline with a chance to be seated on a 737-8XX, simple as that! And to the Thai regulators I suggest to do a little more than just "urge" ???? 

I still prefer to fly Boeing planes. Airbus has had its share of issues and tragedies.

[Willy Wombat]

I always thought that when a plane is not used for a prolonged period of time it should be stored in a dry and arid climate.

Did Thai airways ship their planes off to some desert or they left them sitting on the tarmac in hot and humid Bangkok?

[SomchaiCNX]

They better check the mental health of the pilots and knowledge of those that work at the CAAT. So many things go wrong right under their nose but they don't have clue or maybe some brown envelopes blurred their vising. 

[Sydebolle]

28 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

They were 737-MAX, not 737-800 like this China plane.

Point taken but the 800 series was a quick-and-dirty fix against the competition. 

If, with capital letters IF, the media is telling us something faintly close to the truth then this particular flight had a more than senior cockpit crew of three seasoned pilots. One had booked 6,000 flying hours as captain and the other fellow with more than 20,000 hours; no details were available about the third captain (unclear also, why there were three pilots on this aircraft).

Suicide seems, to me, out of the question and something very, very serious went wrong and it has all the patterns of what brought down the 737-MAX. 

Reason enough for me to not board such a plane until it is clear, what happened to those 132 souls .. 

[bangon04]

"it will notify five Thai airlines that operate Boeing 737-800 aircraft to conduct thorough inspections and closely monitor flight operations "

 

this sounds a bit like telling the RTP to actually do the job they are paid for......... Amazing Thailand....

[ozfarang]

5 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Point taken but the 800 series was a quick-and-dirty fix against the competition. 

If, with capital letters IF, the media is telling us something faintly close to the truth then this particular flight had a more than senior cockpit crew of three seasoned pilots. One had booked 6,000 flying hours as captain and the other fellow with more than 20,000 hours; no details were available about the third captain (unclear also, why there were three pilots on this aircraft).

Suicide seems, to me, out of the question and something very, very serious went wrong and it has all the patterns of what brought down the 737-MAX. 

Reason enough for me to not board such a plane until it is clear, what happened to those 132 souls .. 

A few facts wrong there.

 

Captain  6,709hrs,

First officer 31,769hrs and

Second officer 556 hrs

 

Third pilot a trainee and your second last paragraph is fanciful and in no way comparable to the 2 B737-MAX crashes

 

 

[Mr Vice]

Many years ago when I was in the RAF I worked quite closely with the AAIB, the Air Accident Investigation Branch, based at Farnborough. They were a real bunch of knowledgeable engineers and ex pilots whom I enjoyed being with and admired because of their professionalism and ability to not jump to conclusions. Little did I know that some 35 years later I would come to Thailand and find that there is another group who know everything about air crashes from a distance and then write all about it here....????

[ozfarang]

16 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Point taken but the 800 series was a quick-and-dirty fix against the competition. 
 

The B737-800 was nothing of the sort, it was one of the NG series aircraft prior to the B-737 MAX.

 

it was the same as the B-737-600/700/900 in the NG series only difference was the seating capacity of each variant 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_Next_Generation

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

The Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand (CAAT) has said it will notify five Thai airlines that operate Boeing 737-800 aircraft to conduct thorough inspections and closely monitor flight operations

Call me Shirley......but I would hope these are already actions that are a matter of routine.

[Sydebolle]

2 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

A few facts wrong there.

 

Captain  6,709hrs,

First officer 31,769hrs and

Second officer 556 hrs

 

Third pilot a trainee and your second last paragraph is fanciful and in no way comparable to the 2 B737-MAX crashes

 

 

 

As said "one had booked 6,000 flying hours" - your correction is 6'709, "the other fellow more than 20,000 hours" - your correction is 31'769 hours. Excellent, makes all the difference. 

And the two 737-MAX crashed by nose-diving (arguably not 90 degrees) due to software and an overruling little switch which got - apparently - omitted in training flight deck crew. A big sales argument of Muilenburg was, that airlines would not have to spend a lot of money in getting their crew to fly the new plane - but you can look all that up in the respective episodes of "air crash desaster" or "may day" programmes. I am pretty sure they must have produced something on these two crashes. 

As I - for one - have no clue what went terribly wrong (and it went terribly wrong) I'll stay away from both aircraft until the source is identified, addressed and solved. Everything else is speculative and unprofessional - including the "urge to conduct" - and that's the headline of this thread ..... 

[IamNoone88]

We never got the truth from China on Covid after the cover-ups and I doubt we will see the truth on this incident unless they can pin the blame squarely on Boeing. I have complete mis-trust of that regime.

[ozfarang]

@Sydebolle, you said, "third captain (unclear also, why there were three pilots on this aircraft)."

the third pilot was not a captain, so do some research and get your facts right instead of coming up with BS facts to suit your opinion.

 

An endorsed pilot on the B737-600/700/800/900 NG series does not need extra training to fly any of these aircraft. 

[ozfarang]

@IamNoone88, Boeing will be taking a keen interest in the Chinese investigation of this crash and the results they publish.

 

[DaLa]

1 hour ago, WingFat said:

And of course, the Chinese pilots are fully competent and China Eastern Airlines kept up with the required maintenance of these airplanes...yeah right, B***S***. I've flown China Eastern Airlines before years ago...and decided never will I do again.

If you mean you wouldn't fly with them because of bad food/service/schedules/cost/ punctuality etc, then ok, I accept that. However there are 4200 Boeing 737-800 NG in service at the moment. This was China Eastern Airline’s first incident in 12 years so a lot better on paper than for instance Malaysia Airlines.

 

One of the main issues with we humans considering flying that in the event of a ‘problem’ the outcome is not good. The other issue is that plane crashes usually account for multiple fatalities, which is meaningless to anyone that loses a loved one in a singular incident. To place this into perspective , 1.3 million people a year die in road traffic accidents ….3,600 a day. So call it 20 airline crashes a day!

[PeeJayEm]

This is a completely pointless CYA directive.  As though re-shuffling the paperwork of certification will yield anything at all.  - Only of use if these Thai  airlines and inspectors are best in world and can second guess the CAA investigation. - I think not.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, sezze said:

I have seen images which might suggest , and a say this very carefully , since nothing of that is sure , don't even know if the pics are sure , that the tail of the 737-800 has fallen off . This might be a reason for a plane to drop vertically from the sky . Tail dropping off can have a few reasons also , 1 being massive overspeed when plummeting to the ground , other reason can me massive decompression of the bulkhead in the end of the plane or some other reason .

The flaw in that is it plummeted from around 30k then leveled off around 7k feet then plummeted again.  If no tail it would never been able to level off.  If suicide, the leveling off could be the other pilot trying to wrestle control back from the pilot.  But of course this is totally conjecture.  ????

[IamNoone88]

43 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

@IamNoone88, Boeing will be taking a keen interest in the Chinese investigation of this crash and the results they publish.

 

Yes. However, they are also Boeing's largest customer ...... so it it be a whole truth, part truth or something else .... that prevails. 

[Isaan sailor]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

The flaw in that is it plummeted from around 30k then leveled off around 7k feet then plummeted again.  If no tail it would never been able to level off.  If suicide, the leveling off could be the other pilot trying to wrestle control back from the pilot.  But of course this is totally conjecture.  ????

Another export opined that sometimes data gets skewed, and the leveling off and climbing 1200 feet could be false.

[KhunBENQ]

5 hours ago, mania said:

Reason being these planes are not meant to sit idle in hangars for 1 year +

In a hangar? What a luxury.

Google for "Victorville" and/or watch this:

(go to minute 4:00 if impatient)

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by KhunBENQ

[smutcakes]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Not as yet... [unless they don't want to be found].

It was announced one had been found yesterday on most global news channels, and also that Boeing officials had been invited to assist with the black boxes...

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

6000 meters in a minute equals 360 kilometers an hour, that's very slow for an airliner. It's essentially the max speed a plane can reach by just

falling nose down straight out of the sky, which makes me think engines failure, but it's definitely not being massively overspeed. 

One can rule out engine failure straight away. A double engine failure is a very rare event and even if it did happen, aircraft can and do glide. Pilots train for such an event in the simulator. In addition there was no 'mayday' call.

 

In fact there was no communication at all from the cockpit once the aircraft went into its 'death dive' which leads me to suspect that this was a deliberate act on the part of one of the aircrew.

 

They have found the cockpit voice recorder which should shed some light on this tragedy. 

 

 

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

One can rule out engine failure straight away. A double engine failure is a very rare event and even if it did happen, aircraft can and do glide. Pilots train for such an event in the simulator. In addition there was no 'mayday' call.

 

In fact there was no communication at all from the cockpit once the aircraft went into its 'death dive' which leads me to suspect that this was a deliberate act on the part of one of the aircrew.

 

They have found the cockpit voice recorder which should shed some light on this tragedy. 

 

 

Quite clearly the poster has literally zero knowledge of aviation, nearly 100% the thing he speculates is probably the most 100% most unlikely scenario one could ever consider, given you just do not get double engine failure and even in the 1 in a 100 million chance it did happen the plane would not nose dive like it did. Quite simply one of the most uninformed posts i have ever read on this forum, which is quite an achievement in itself

[bunnydrops]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Flying to? Maybe not on a 737-800?

 

 

 

You were wrong. In so, so, so many ways.

 

 

 

Yes and no. There are many maintenance problems with sitting jets, Few get to sit in a hanger.

https://www.eways-aviation.com/blog/the-challenges-of-aircraft-storage-and-maintaining-planes-during-downtime