British biker, 83, is killed in a horror crash in Thailand after car pulls out in front of him

[jesimps]

8 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

RIP Keith.. Nice guy with decades of ride experience.. 

Theres a certain level of basic road user ignorance that no amount of defensive driving can avoid. 

Must be ten years or so now, friend was killed overtaking in the outside lane when another bike ridden by a youth came out of a u-turn straight in front of him. The youth had minor injuries.

[LomSak27]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

That looks like he was going a bit fast coming up to a junction, but did have time to do something about missing the SUV

Yes he was coming fast and the SUV was a waddling tortoise. Doubt he had time to do anything as his first thought was the SUV would stay in the outside lane. Not the case, this driver just merge waddled right over into the next lane. BTW Judging the cars on the opposite side, the cycle is roughly the same speed, no faster than traffic on the highway.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by LomSak27

[transam]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Yes too fast for that road I believe.

 

Another question though, why did the driver pull into the right most lane? That's the other big f-up here. The right lane should always be kept open for faster traffic and if that happened here he would have been ok.

Perhaps doing the left then a quick right, but, he may not of seen the bike, to me, the biker still had time to do something but didn't..   

[jesimps]

7 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA, if you read end a car you're always at fault even if the car put a sudden break in the middle of the road unless the front car has broken tail lights or the front driver driving drunk. 

I would imagine that only applies if it happens when you and the driver in front are moving in the same lane. If somebody suddenly switches lanes, it doesn't matter how careful you are, you've little chance of avoiding a spill.

 

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, wonder how many is going to point on that. I simply mean that it's a too big and fast bike for such old person. Better?

Not only do you get your original post completely wrong in describing the bike /helmet you then assume a larger ,more stable bike MUST by definition have been speeding . A 125 scooter will do over 100 kmh (plenty enough to kill you as Thais regularly prove!) . Then finally, the proof of the pudding which completely destroys your argument is that he was not at fault at all - a car (likely driven by someone much younger) performed a mindless manoeuvre pulling right in front of him. 
in fact I can’t think of a single thing you said that turned out to be correct! ???? 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Yes he was coming fast and the SUV was a waddling tortoise. Doubt he had time to do anything as his first thought was the SUV would stay in the outside lane. Not the case, this driver just merge waddled right over into the next lane. BTW Judging the cars on the opposite side, the cycle is roughly the same speed, no faster than traffic on the highway.

 

Then I read it differently to you...The SUV was already pulling out of the turn before the bike turns up, the bike was travelling at speed and I saw no evasive action from the bike, perhaps the rider was confused as to what to do for that split second, but his speed was against him... 

[Thunglom]

It's not a motorway and quite possibly priority is from the left.

[Wrwest]

9 hours ago, RandiRona said:

I would argue that for a 83 year old everything is a sudden or surprising event. Car is your best friend on Thai roads.

Granted a "tank" is best but ... it is not the age but the mental quickness in being able to anticipate and adjust. With his riding background, I would guess, along with the police finding of fault, he had little, if any ability to avoid the accident. Sad ... I love riding my Aerox and plan to continue to continue at age 75. I acknowledge that each of us must have all the synapsis firing all the time while driving here.

[ThailandRyan]

7 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA, if you read end a car you're always at fault even if the car put a sudden break in the middle of the road unless the front car has broken tail lights or the front driver driving drunk. 

Not always the actual findings of the investigator.  If it was a straight up rear ender then you would be correct as the rear driver/rider would be considered as "Driving at an unsafe speed for the conditions present". However, if someone pulled out from a side street and made the turn directly in front of oncoming traffic, and therefore failing to yield to the oncoming traffic they would be at fault for an unsafe turning movement causing the accident.  In this case if the evidence were the same in the US, especially in CA. the driver of the SUV would be found at fault and an additional charge of Vehicular manslaughter would be charged.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

It's not a motorway and quite possibly priority is from the left.

Wrong....  There is no main road in Thailand where priority is to a minor road from the left.

 

This incident was a major highway (we can tell by the photographs / at least two lanes in each direction). 

 

This ‘priority from the left’ rubbish is a common misunderstanding of the the Land Traffic Act by many foreigners and has been discussed on this forum (even surround islands etc) - the priority to the left only exists at unmarked junctions of roads withe equal ’status’ (paraphrased). 

 

 

 

[sawadee1947]

Terrible accident.

Since I'm here in Thailand it came at No time into my head to ride a motor bike. (Or Scooter).

If this fellow would have driven a Car he would be still alive.

Also I'm not sure it's necessary to ride a bike with 83?????????

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Terrible accident.

Since I'm here in Thailand it came at No time into my head to ride a motor bike. (Or Scooter).

If this fellow would have driven a Car he would be still alive.

Also I'm not sure it's necessary to ride a bike with 83?????????

If the ol' fella was driving a car at that speed, it would have probably been the same outcome with more damage to the SUV...

[Thunglom]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Wrong....  There is no main road in Thailand where priority is to a minor road from the left.

Actually the the priority has to be officially imposed.

The other thing is that most Thai drivers assume they have this priority and once on the road they do.

we also don't know how the junction is marked priority continues once the road is joined.

 

You are right most foreigners especially UK ones don't understand this - however it exists throughout Europe (in the reverse side , of course)

Edited June 14, 2022 by Thunglom

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

Terrible accident.

Since I'm here in Thailand it came at No time into my head to ride a motor bike. (Or Scooter).

If this fellow would have driven a Car he would be still alive.

Also I'm not sure it's necessary to ride a bike with 83?????????

Why is it not a good Idea to ride a Motorcycle at 83?  Are you serious in your views?  MAny of the folks I know that are in there 80's keep in shape and actually look a lot younger than some 60 year olds that I know who drink and smoke and do not take care of themselves.  This Gentleman (may he RIP) was an avid Motorcycle enthusiast who had years upon years of experience.  I find your view offensive, and even if he had been a young man in his 20's death might have occurred as well.

[pattayahenry]

In thailand you always must expect children on motorbikes, not looking anywhere, you must be able to stop within 20 meter, unless you can see 100m freely to all sides

[jaiyenyen]

40 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Another question though, why did the driver pull into the right most lane? That's the other big f-up here. The right lane should always be kept open for faster traffic and if that happened here he would have been ok.

Maybe she thought she was back in China, and was trying to get into, what she thought, was the slow lane.

Mainland China drive on the RHS of the road.

Edited June 14, 2022 by jaiyenyen

[richard_smith237]

19 minutes ago, transam said:

Then I read it differently to you...The SUV was already pulling out of the turn before the bike turns up, the bike was travelling at speed and I saw no evasive action from the bike, perhaps the rider was confused as to what to do for that split second, but his speed was against him... 

I don’t think the motorcyclist was travelling too fast or speeding etc (looking at the vid), but no one expects the car to pull straight out into the right most lane. 

Its difficult to see, but there doesn’t seem to be any slowing of the motorcycle - perhaps his attention was momentarily elsewhere, or he was looking in his mirrors etc...  

 

It just took a second for the car to pull across both lanes, not a lot of time to react and the reaction of an ageing gent is certainly going to be a lot slower than someone younger - I don’t think the ability of a super-fast reaction would have made much difference to be honest. 

[Bangkok Barry]

8 hours ago, carvets said:

I don't know for sure what the Thai law is for pulling out from a side street , but it was explained to me years ago that Thais believe if you are on the main road then it's your responsibility to avoid vehicles pulling out from side streets as you have a better view of what's happening . I don't know if this is true but it terrifies me to think it's possible . Very sad for the 83 yo involved . 

It would explain why that is the way the majority of Thais drive, but I think it's more a case of Me First. Seems that the Chinese have the same attitude in this case.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

If the ol' fella was driving a car at that speed, it would have probably been the same outcome with more damage to the SUV...

‘at that speed’.. I don’t think the speed was excessive... he appeared to be doing normal traffic speeds (i.e. about 80kmh at a guess)... If he was in a car it would have been a ‘standard’ (if there is such a think) rear-end shunt....   very doubtful it would have been life threatening or even causing injury. 

 

 

Watching the video a few times it actually seems as though the motorcyclists ‘could have’ hit the brakes and avoided impact...  I’m not sure he noticed the car in front in time. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by richard_smith237

[Bangkok Barry]

6 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

I have one more controversial comment to make  and that is that the standard of driving by female drivers here is appallingly bad.  The men are bad enough, the women are far worse. 

Give me the choice between a man or woman taxi or van driver and I'll opt for the woman every time. Speaking from many years of experience here.

[KhaoYai]

49 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

 

https://www.newsflare.com/video/498646/british-pensioner-83-killed-in-horror-motorbike-crash-in-thailand

 

I don't want to appear disrespectful - a man has died but the accident in that video looks avoidable to me.  Cars pulling out on motorbikes is a daily occurence in most countries but that's the first time I've seen someone hit the rear of a vehicle that has pulled out on them.  The norm is to hit the side of the vehicle pulling out.

 

Hitting the rear and given the bike's distance away from the car when it pulled out, plus the fact that the car had completed its manouvre before the impact, suggests a delayed reaction.  Those who have not ridden a 'big bike' recently may not be aware of just how powerful their brakes are these days. My bike will virtually 'stop on a sixpence' as the saying goes. Many also have ABS.

 

Having said that, the car driver is a bloody idiot, firstly for pulling out into the carriageway when it wasn't clear - full stop but pulling out and going directly into the right hand lane of a dual carriageway is just ridiculous.

 

I always ride 'defensively' wherever I am but moreso in Thailand where you should always expect the unexpected.  My right hand is almost always covering the brake lever and my eyes are everywhere, all the time.  Even then there are no guarantees but I've been OK so far.

 

So sad to have reached the age of 83 and continued doing what he loved - just to be killed in an avoidable accident.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

‘at that speed’.. I don’t think the speed was excessive... he appeared to be doing normal traffic speeds (i.e. about 80kmh at a guess)... If he was in a car it would have been a ‘standard’ (if there is such a think) rear-end shunt....   very doubtful it would have been life threatening or even causing injury. 

 

 

 

 

80kmh is about 50 mph, that would be a bit more than a standard shunt.....????

 

[digger70]

RIP old man .

Don't know what happen , but look at this article please,                                      https://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-traffic-rules-in-thailand-and-how-to-avoid-traffic-accidents-p169

[Rimmer]

A grammar police post and a reply have been removed

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

 

 

I have one more controversial comment to make  and that is that the standard of driving by female drivers here is appallingly bad.  The men are bad enough, the women are far worse. 

My GF would probably disagree, she is a very careful driver.

Perhaps you could post a link which supports your contention, IME male drivers here are either cautious to a fault, or hopped up on testosterone, alcohol and yaa baa. I haven't heard of any females with the first and third variable in play. All the statistics are saying young, male = increased accident and death risk.

 

Back on topic, I don't care how experienced the deceased was. To me, an 83 yo traveling in the right hand lane is just asking too much of reflexes, eyesight  and threat comprehension.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall TT racing involves dicing with traffic from scooters up to cement trucks.

RIP, perhaps that was the way he wanted to go. Quicker than a nursing home, for sure.

[Nemises]

Goes to show you that no amount of motor cycle riding experience will save you on these roads. You fate will always remain in the hands of the most stupid, drunk, drugged, speeding, distracted, law-breaking drivers in the world. 
 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Nemises

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

Then finally, the proof of the pudding which completely destroys your argument is that he was not at fault at all - a car (likely driven by someone much younger) performed a mindless manoeuvre pulling right in front of him. 
in fact I can’t think of a single thing you said that turned out to be correct! ????

So, how do you know drive out in front of him? Do you know how quick he was going? Do you know how quick 200-300 meter goes in 120km/h? We are talking 6 to 9 seconds. He also appeared to have problem braking in time or doing a avoiding reaction. Something that also supports speeding, as he must been having clear sight. So, maybe I am not so wrong anyway. ???? 

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

That looks like a Honda CB500X, an adventure/touring bike with 50hp, definitely not a "race bike"

That´s good. I am pretty sure it will max over 180 anyway.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, Dellboy218 said:

Nope, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself.  It's a CB500X, not a fast bike, a very practical bike.   You never mentioned the car.  Too big and powerful for the driver?

I am pretty sure it will max over 180 anyway.

[Stevemercer]

My condolences to the deceased's family and friends.

 

I ride a bike and am always keen to learn, so of course I looked at the video with interest. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned for all of us riders.

 

Sure, the car driver was at fault, but this happens all the time in Thailand. The driver turns onto the highway and wanders over to the right hand lane to do a U turn, all in a zombie-like state.

 

The motorcyclist is travelling in the right hand lane which was clear. Maybe his view of the road to the left, where the vehicle came out, was obscured by a slow moving truck(s). The truck may have been slowing to turn down the same road the driver came out of which is why it doesn't appear in frame. If it was indicating a left turn, this would have alerted the rider that there was an intersection to the left and to take care in case someone suddenly pulled out. But maybe it wasn't indicating.

 

Suddenly a vehicle appears in his lane. The motorcyclist can't pull to the left lane, because of the vehicles, or maybe there isn't time. All he can do is slam on the brakes. Obviously he cannot manouvere while under heavy braking. He slams into the offending vehicle.

 

From the damage to the bike and car he was maybe travelling 40 km/hr when he hit, normally survivable, particularly with a sedan with a sloping back. But he hit a SUV and was very unlucky and fell badly. Presumably his helmet came off when he cannoned into the back of the SUV and he was unprotected when he hit the ground.

 

Having said this, there is a doubt in my mind whether he might have been distracted for a vital few seconds and braked too late.

 

For me, that is the difficulty about riding a motorbike in Thailand. You have to concentrate 100% all the time. This alertness has its toll and I no longer try and travel too far in one day. Sure, you can get away with momentary distractions most of the time, but the odds may start to stack up against you over the years. You can only have so many 'lucky' near misses.

 

It's also easy to start to get <deleted> off with drivers pulling in front of you all the time and holding your line to force them to back off. When I find myself tempted to do this, I know it's time to stop for a bit and relax.

 

I think it is safer riding in a group. If there is a bunch of you, you are much more noticeable to other traffic. Your attention is also more focussed in keeping to formation and ensuring the safety of the riders around you. You also tend to stop more often for fuel, snacks, etc. 

 

When travelling solo, your intent is often to get to your next destination as quickly as possible. You can get a little lazy in observing the minutea of traffic details particularly on a boring divided highway you've ridden many times.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Stevemercer