Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be charged for Jan. 6 riot--poll

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, mikeymike100 said:

He hasn't, so he is innocent! Because he has not been proved guilty! LOL

I didn't make up "Innocent until proven guilty"

I didn't say he's guilty - I said it's difficult to consider him innocent when we've heard him committing the crime on tape and in his own words.

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, bocaBob said:

Oh, right on. So, charges are pending, likely, expected?

Sorry for asking, I have not followed this story.

 

Yes, it's before the grand jury already.

 

(And as the well-known saying goes, “a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich, if that's what you wanted.")

Edited June 20, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

 

 "A bipartisan Senate report found that at least seven people had lost their lives in connection with the Jan. 6 attack."

 

Mod's note:

 

This is a more up-to-date, accurate accounting of the deaths that resulted from the Jan. 6 riot:

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/

 

An original link to a not publicly available New York Times article has been removed.

 

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

It was deadly in that, "A bipartisan Senate report found that at least seven people had lost their lives in connection with the Jan. 6 attack."

 

 

And there’s no doubt in my mind that it would have been a lot deadlier if the rioters had managed to capture the representatives and/or senators they had set their sights on.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

 

A failed lynch mob is still a lynch mob.

 

 

[ozimoron]

 

The Washington Post reported on April 19 that District of Columbia Chief Medical Examiner Francisco J. Diaz found that Sicknick suffered two strokes nearly eight hours after being sprayed with a chemical irritant during the riot. Diaz told the Post that Sicknick died of natural causes, but “all that transpired played a role in his condition.”

 

Four other police officers committed suicide in the days and months after the riot.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/

[Jingthing]

56 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/column-ashli-babbitt-not-peaceful-222655301.html

 

Column: Ashli Babbitt was not a peaceful protester. It's clear why the cop who shot her was exonerated

[vinci]

Quote

I have no issues with Trump going to prison IF it was shown by an 50/50 jury he did wrong - not by a totally DC left wing jury.

Jan 6 committee can't put anybody in jail, they are not jury, they do not vote if trump is guilty or not, they are there to investigate and give evident to the DOJ to do their job, doesn't matter 50/50 or not, it all run down to evident, they speak with people that they think was involved, mostly Trump goon, even Trump daughter has turn her back on him

[ozimoron]

52 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Imaginary lynch mobs don't build real gallows and parade the halls of the Capitol chanting "Hang Pence". Furthermore, members of this mob of deplorables pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy.

[sanuk711]

Three hundred and thirty million Americans--- Ask 1,004  by phone***--- Print 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be charged. An extremely small random.

 

***This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by landline and cellular telephone April 24-28, 2022, in English and Spanish, among a random national sample of 1,004 adults.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by sanuk711

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

And there’s no doubt in my mind that it would have been a lot deadlier if the rioters had managed to capture the representatives and/or senators they had set their sights on.

 

Not only had members of the Proud Boys within the rioting mob threatened to kill VP Pence if they could find him, but the mob's violence went broadly beyond that:

 

Per AP:

 

"The committee’s interviews with police officers detail “absolutely brutal” abuse from Trump’s supporters as they ran over them and broke into the building. The officers described hearing racial slurs and seeing Nazi salutes. One officer trying to evacuate the Senate said he had stopped several men in full tactical gear, one of whom said, “You better get out of our way, boy, or we’ll go through you to get (the senators).’”

 

The insurrectionists told police officers they would kill them, then members of Congress."

Senate report details broad failures around Jan. 6 attack

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-capitol-siege-government-and-politics-96054d62518a7be4c3f30231f51beaf5

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

56 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Three hundred and thirty million Americans--- Ask 1,004  by phone***--- Print 6 in 10 Americans say Trump should be charged. An extremely small random.

 

***This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by landline and cellular telephone April 24-28, 2022, in English and Spanish, among a random national sample of 1,004 adults.

You don't understand how polling works, do you?

 

As the article below explains, a random sample of 1,004 people gives you a "95 percent chance that the survey result will be [accurate to] within 3 percent."

 

How can a poll of only 1,004 Americans represent 260 million people with only a 3 percent margin of error?

Edited June 20, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[candide]

1 hour ago, bocaBob said:

 

And in particular why the National Guard was sent so late to the Capitol! ????

"Reports: Trump Resisted Sending National Guard To Quell Violent Mob At U.S. Capitol"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/01/06/reports-trump-resisted-sending-national-guard-to-quell-violent-mob-at-us-capitol/

[bocaBob]

Actually, a piece of paper can be used as a lethal weapon (ask any SAS), so not to minimize the use of the J6 flagpoles and other weapons and the resulting injuries to LEO that day.

The point being, if the capitol building is that susceptible to incursion by the muppet brigade how safe is America  here and abroad.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not only had members of the Proud Boys within the rioting mob threatened to kill VP Pence if they could find him, but the mob's violence went broadly beyond that:

 

Per AP:

 

"The committee’s interviews with police officers detail “absolutely brutal” abuse from Trump’s supporters as they ran over them and broke into the building. The officers described hearing racial slurs and seeing Nazi salutes. One officer trying to evacuate the Senate said he had stopped several men in full tactical gear, one of whom said, “You better get out of our way, boy, or we’ll go through you to get (the senators).’”

 

The insurrectionists told police officers they would kill them, then members of Congress."

Senate report details broad failures around Jan. 6 attack

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-capitol-siege-government-and-politics-96054d62518a7be4c3f30231f51beaf5

 

This story shows that there were plenty of warning signs before J6, even Cheyney said that.

 

The mock gallows and at least one pipe bomb assembly was found near the Capitol a day before (J5).

 

It's no surprise that Trump is highlighted by this committee but other aspects need to be considered too, if a repeat of this event is to be avoided. In particular one important question should be asked as: given existing intelligence and the associated pre-warnings, why was the National Guard or other extra security not organized and present at the Capitol on January 6th to support and assist the police in case of crowd violence?  

 

I'd like to know the real truth of that, whatever the answer is.

Edited June 20, 2022 by nauseus

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No!

 

Georgia governors do not have that power.

 

Nice try. No cigar.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-prosecutors-open-criminal-investigation-160913711.html

I stand corrected.

 

The Georgia State Board of Pardons will ultimately pardon Trump.

[siam dreamers]

7 out of ten if you count me!!!!!

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, bocaBob said:

Actually, a piece of paper can be used as a lethal weapon (ask any SAS), so not to minimize the use of the J6 flagpoles and other weapons and the resulting injuries to LEO that day.

The point being, if the capitol building is that susceptible to incursion by the muppet brigade how safe is America  here and abroad.

This article may provide some clues. It's not surprising there have been calls to defund the police. I don't agree with them but some funds could be redirected into reforming police and FBI culture.

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/policing-and-siege-united-states-capitol

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Agree but I think sufficient security should have been in place, or at least very close nearby, early in the day.

 

See my post above re warnings.

I also agree, the crowd was out for blood and there are lessons to be learnt but that does not distract or excuse their actions or those who instigated it.

[bocaBob]

I'll cut to the chase: whomever is responsible for the debacle called security, or rather lack of, at the capitol bulding on J6 despite after and in consideration of the robust FBI and other intel indicating potential for violence (please conduct search for the intel that was available indicating potential for violence on J6)), they need to be held to account. So far there is innuendo flying in every direction about culpability at this time. If Trump can be predicated and shown to be involved then he needs to be accountable. Anyone, I mean ANYONE that dropped the ball on the massive breakdown security failures on J6 must be identified and punished. I think this issue will become VERY contentious if R's prevail in midterm elections and begin to unravel why the big tough Yanks can't protect their house.

 

Also, all us plain ole kitchen table yanks care not so much about this J6 confusion but more on paying our bills and surviving record inflation.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, bocaBob said:

I'll cut to the chase: whomever is responsible for the debacle called security, or rather lack of, at the capitol bulding on J6 despite after and in consideration of the robust FBI and other intel indicating potential for violence (please conduct search for the intel that was available indicating potential for violence on J6)), they need to be held to account. So far there is innuendo flying in every direction about culpability at this time. If Trump can be predicated and shown to be involved then he needs to be accountable. Anyone, I mean ANYONE that dropped the ball on the massive breakdown security failures on J6 must be identified and punished. I think this issue will become VERY contentious if R's prevail in midterm elections and begin to unravel why the big tough Yanks can't protect their house.

 

Also, all us plain ole kitchen table yanks care not so much about this J6 confusion but more on paying our bills and surviving record inflation.

I think the R's are more likely to sweep that issue under the carpet if they win the house in the mid terms. The suspicion is that right wing sympathisers within the fbI and police dropped the ball due to their inherent biases.

 

Who ran interference from higher up is another matter that needs to be explored.

Edited June 20, 2022 by ozimoron

[bocaBob]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The suspicion is that right wing sympathisers within the fbI and police dropped the ball due to their inherent biases.

huh..your statement makes no sense and I ask that you explain right wing sympathizers in the bureau.

[ozimoron]

44 minutes ago, bocaBob said:

huh..your statement makes no sense and I ask that you explain right wing sympathizers in the bureau.

Read the article I linked.

[Danderman123]

What we don’t have now is the link between Trump’s inner circle and the rioters. Somebody told the rioters to bring stuff like megaphones and body armor.

[ozimoron]

 

[Lacessit]

46 minutes ago, bocaBob said:

I'm confused.

No more than I am, the allegation was made in this thread that the FBI was led by lefties.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think clearly there were failures on the part of local law enforcement and the military to adequately protect the Capitol and defend against the rioting Trump mob that day.... That's certainly clear by the outcome.

 

And while I'm sure various factors contributed to that, it's probably hard to overlook the likely contributing factor that it was the President of the U.S. -- the military's Commander in Chief -- who directed the mob to go to the Capitol and was publicly egging them on, and that probably made at least some LE and military folks hesitant, at least at first, to go against their CIC and do what needed to be done without explicit orders.

 

And then beyond that, there was, as the various media reports have documented, Trump's refusal that day as the rioters were storming the Capitol to call in more LE/military resources as Commander in Chief. So certainly some of the blame rests squarely on him.

 

Jun 9, 2022 at 9:32 pm ET

Cheney: Trump Never Called Military to Defend U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 – But Pence Did

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/jan-6-hearings-news-live/card/cheney-trump-never-called-military-to-defend-u-s-capitol-on-jan-6-but-pence-did-js5yUaivfa2Yz5QCZ77p

 

"Republican Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming said that it was former Vice President Mike Pence, not former President Donald Trump, who called for the military to defend the U.S. Capitol during the riot.

 

Mr. Trump “placed no call to any element of the U.S. government to instruct that the Capitol be defended,” Ms. Cheney said.

 

She said Mr. Trump did not call his Secretary of Defense on Jan. 6, or speak to his Attorney General or the Department of Homeland Security."

 

AND

 

Fact check: Trump repeats false claim that Pelosi rejected request for National Guard ahead of Jan. 6

 

"Trump’s claim is one of many efforts by Republicans and supporters of the former president to shift blame and downplay the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol that resulted in four deaths and led to more than 600 arrests. 

...

There is no evidence Trump made any formal request about deploying 10,000 National Guard troops before the rally.

...

Claims that Pelosi was in charge of Capitol security on Jan. 6 have been previously debunked by USA TODAY.  The Capitol Police are overseen by the Capitol Police Board and committees from the Senate and House of Representatives."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/12/16/fact-check-no-trump-request-10000-guard-troops-jan-6/8929215002/

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, bocaBob said:

I think this issue will become VERY contentious if R's prevail in midterm elections and begin to unravel why the big tough Yanks can't protect their house.

Answer being, because the "Yanks" at the time had a president who was charged with defending the country, its government and its Constitution as his primary job, but who instead incited insurrectionists and mounted a public campaign of sedition against his own country.

Edited June 20, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Very apropos....

 

When you do a Google search to check the common definition of "sedition" and the results include the Wikipedia entry on the subject, look what now comes up....

 

 

 

History will no doubt regard him and them as such...

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[pomchop]

Donnie and the delusionals who see no evil hear no evil when it is right in front of them backed by hundreds of hours of video and audio evidence further supported by sworn testimony from dozens of republicans who were there and saw and heard the evil in person.

 

What's next will the delusionals claim that it's not really donnie on all those tapes encouraging violence, demanding states find him more votes, telling verifiable lie after lie?  Delusional is an apt description of the see no evil Trumpers.