We are finding it hard to retain staff. Many resign and dont give notice.

[patman30]

contracts.........????‍♂️

everything you want for every scenario
should be in the employment contract you get them to sign when they start...

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, jack71 said:

I dont want to pay her because she hasn't given us any notice. I feel I want to teach her a lesson.

This says it all.

 

You recognise your business's success is dependent on your staff.  Treat them as you would your closest family, show them you are one of them and that you value them.

 

I have run a successful business here for 8 years, I have lost one member of staff in that time, because she moved away.  I don't pay substantially more than anyone else, upper quartile for sure, but my staff would consider me their friend and I likewise.  Yes we get the same grandfather dies every year from some of them, but I turn a blind-eye.  Face is everything in Thailand.

 

There is always Lao-khao for them to drink at the end of the working day, if the ice cream bike comes around, they all get given ice creams etc etc.

 

You need to have a special set of inter-personal skills to be successful with Thai workers, never criticise, handle poor workmanship with great tact.  If you don't have these skills, you'll always have a high workforce turnover.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, malt25 said:

"we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. "

Very generous of the OP to pay what the labour laws stipulates.

Wonder if they are paid triple time if they work overtime on public holiday.... like the law stipulates !!

[swm59nj]

That appears to be the normal work culture here for many unfortunately.  They seem to think they get paid to play on their phones all day.  And do anything except what they are hired to do.  At least in a business type environment.  
I also blame poor management.  They seem to have no control.  And they probably do the same things their employees do. 
 

[steven100]

37 minutes ago, patman30 said:

contracts.........????‍♂️

everything you want for every scenario
should be in the employment contract you get them to sign when they start...

you really think a thai girl coming from an Issan rice farm is going to care about breaking the contract ?

what will they do .... track her down and put her in jail ....   Lol

[Headgame]

36 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

This says it all.

 

You recognise your business's success is dependent on your staff.  Treat them as you would your closest family, show them you are one of them and that you value them.

 

I have run a successful business here for 8 years, I have lost one member of staff in that time, because she moved away.  I don't pay substantially more than anyone else, upper quartile for sure, but my staff would consider me their friend and I likewise.  Yes we get the same grandfather dies every year from some of them, but I turn a blind-eye.  Face is everything in Thailand.

 

There is always Lao-khao for them to drink at the end of the working day, if the ice cream bike comes around, they all get given ice creams etc etc.

 

You need to have a special set of inter-personal skills to be successful with Thai workers, never criticise, handle poor workmanship with great tact.  If you don't have these skills, you'll always have a high workforce turnover.

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about. My partner owns a shop but never hires friends or family. Too difficult to coach, train and fire. But she’s Thai so easier for her.

[Iamfalang]

The OP hasn't replied in a day..........

 

that's a little sus.

 

don't pay her, i'm sure she'll never tell the other workers you have she didn't get paid.  It will work out great!!! if any of this is true....

[userabcd]

2 hours ago, bluemoon58 said:

He actually said he pays well above the norm already.

 

Depends what that means, the low norm is min wage and if well above that is 100 baht then it is not a big deal.

 

Is the pay commensurate with their food, transport and living conditions.

 

Would like to know more about the nature of the work and if it is at all interesting, is there room for development, bonus for achievement of certain goals, owner manager motivation and benefits to make the employee want to keep working, who is managing the workers is it the foreigner or the Thais.

 

Does the employer really understand why the staff are rotating and leaving? Could then adjust and put something in place to solve the reason.

 

Etc....

Edited July 29, 2022 by userabcd

[Dante99]

The employees probably only take a few weeks to see that their boss is mean, not understanding, and not worthy of them working for.  His attitude has come to light in his posts and his employees would see it in his behavior.  I would not want to work for him either.

[Speedhump]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Scant details about the nature of the job and working conditions makes it difficult to form an opinion.  I would say people are generally reluctant to quit well paid jobs unless there is something that really pushes them over the edge. 

Not really. I'd say this is typical Thai-style. They aren't in general turned on by good pay for hard work. They prefer to do as light a job as possible, and are very happy to earn just enough to get by. They will leave a good regular job for seemingly no reason as soon as their weekly or monthly pay hits the bank, and without giving notice. Maybe you're thinking about other nationalities? 

[MrJ2U]

11 hours ago, proton said:

Sounds completely normal behaviour for Thailand, don't blame yourself. How about taking on Burmese instead?

I recall many Filipinos that were fairly dedicated and very good teachers also.

 

Great English. 

 

I don't see any at my daughter's private school.  Usually from Cameroon. 

[Inala]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let me tell you the story of a female friend of my gf. The friend is now maybe 45 years old and she has four kids in the range from about 6 to 21. 

She used to sell food at the local school or market. Now it seems she doesn't find or doesn't like any jobs near her home, about 5 hours away from Bangkok. And some time ago she decided she will come to Bangkok to work here and make money.

Because of her age and being overweight and not fit the numbers of people who want to employ her are low. But she somehow always finds a job. So maybe she works for 4 weeks in a job in Bangkok. And then she misses her kids, which is understandable. And then she decides to visit her kids for a weekend.

After a day home she somehow realizes that a weekend is not really long enough, so she stays a little longer with the kids. And then, maybe a week later, she returns to "her" job. Except it is not her job anymore. Because she didn't show up after the weekend the boss hired someone else. After all, the work has to be done. She is disappointed, why did that boss do that? It was just a couple of days, and she missed her children. 

It seems she doesn't even try to look at it from the perspective of the employer.

So she is looking for work again, another company with another job. And, what a surprise, after a few weeks she misses her kids again. So she goes home again over the weekend. And there someone else tells her about that other job, where she would get 1000B more per months. Oh, that sounds good, lets go there. Should she inform her previous employer who thought she will come back after the weekend? Not really. He will see that she doesn't show up...

This is happening, and with repetitive behavior again and again. Last time she didn't yet miss the children but a relative died and she had to go to the funeral - after she started work maybe 10 days ago. That funeral was obviously important...

Let's look what will happen next. But it doesn't really matter because it will likely be similar to what happened in the past. My gf talked about this with me, and I suggested she should look for work in or near her village. Because otherwise the story will repeat again and again. But no, thinking about what would make sense is just too much headache.

Somehow she seems to me a typical case of how many uneducated Thais "think".

 

I always enjoy your anecdotes onemorefarang

[robertson468]

11 hours ago, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

Suggest you re-read the blog!

[Inala]

4 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

I know 100's in Isaan that would love to have a job out of the fields

 

If you are going bankrupt because of a few extra Thai workers, at their pathetically small salary, your business is not very sound or else you are just barely making it.

 

Let's see 6 Thai workers at 10,000 baht a month. That is 60,000 baht a month (around US $2000 a month). If you cannot afford that, what are you doing in business?

 

 

Now you can see why so many girls take the laying on their back boom boom route in bars & massage etc. A nice easy life compared to their counterparts slaving away under the hot sun in the rice fields. Sleep all day, party at night, time off when you feel like it. And if the girl is reasonably attractive, she'll make much more money than in the rice fields, with the added bonus of being in a better position to one day snag a (hopefully well off) farang boyfriend/husband...   

[Tropposurfer]

11 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

You will just have to accept that people don't like working for you, it appears that they are prepared to give it a go and after a short while something pisses them off and they decide to leave. 

 Thais haven't for the most part allowed themselves to fall into the trap of becoming wage slaves, and all credit to them for that. Consequently if they don't enjoy their job then they quit "any time they want" as you put it.

You say that  you "understand the mind set of the average uneducated Thai" ( no really you don't) and then immediately prove that you don't by saying that you assume they would act professionally and give 2 weeks notice ! followed by remarks about a third world country!  That coupled with your desire to  " teach somebody a lesson" by not paying them, kind of gives me the impression that i would not last long with you either.  Id  Be careful if I were you . it might become a bit more than annoying if she turns up asking for her wages and brings her brothers with her 

I am not criticising you because I don't know the nuances of the relational styles in your business (between you and staff, and staff and other staff, and staff and the types of customers you have).

I would offer that happy and content employees don't tend to leave as readily as you describe yours are doing.

Sometimes this can be because work conditions are harsh e.g. climate, noise, back-breaking, boring, overly controlled, threatening and or punitive, no incentive e.g. upward. mobility in organisation.

I remember somewhere in our organisation psych training years ago an author and organisational structure expert named Demming [spelling?]) saying that if a business is failing or failing to retain staff its always managements fault. He was pretty revolutionary and had a lot of really sound things to say about about organisational structures and their impact on wellness and profit.

If you have the energy maybe get an organisational psychologist (a senior student, or provisional psych from a uni would be ok and cheaper too) to come and observe and report their findings to you. The money you are loosing from training and the loosing, then retraining new staff is a huge drain on profits and viability. I don't need to tell you that eventually such staff turnaround can easily erode profits and crush a business. 

 

[Purdey]

A pity we don't know the type of business. Looks like education doesn't play a role. Money is good but Thais without education aren't looking for a career. This sounds like "just another job" and the market is awash with vacancies. There are educated Thais in my company who resign, but a year or two later they apply again as they realize this is a better company than the one they went to. People really don't think of a job as a career.

Thais who go to visit the family and don't return is a common occurrence. 

I remember when some Thai football players were sent to the UK to train with a major club. After a year, they were begging to go home:

"I miss my mother." (Literally what they said)

"I cannot eat the food here."

"It is too cold."

In other words, Thais will give up a well-paid job for the comforts of home.

Try looking for experience at the interview stage. Try not to hire people who worked a year here and six months there. Interview more that 5-6 people. I have found that the third interviewee was the best but persevered in order to avoid missing someone better.

[Stevemercer]

11 hours ago, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

I don't think paying more will help. Successful Thai workplaces seem to be where the workers are great mates, regularly spend time off work together and it is all one big happy family.

 

Why do you see the same places year after year, working minimal wages, at places like 7-11. It's becasue of the family atmosphere. Workers feel secure, like they have a place where they belong.

 

Sometimes you might be lucky and get a cohort of workers who just gel together, laugh together and stick around for a long time. Other times, workers can't seem to find there place, or don't fit in with the other workers, and don't hang about.

 

One thing I often wonder about is the Thai practice of paying monthly. Workers are always running out of money towards the end of the month and get restless and a bit anxious about things. On the other hand, maybe it means a new worker will stick round at least one month to get their first salary.

 

Most western countries pay fortnightly. I think this allows better budgeting and a more manageable cash flow.

 

I sometimes wonder whether paying fortnightly might be a novel way to keep workers hanging around longer.

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, proton said:

Sounds completely normal behaviour for Thailand, don't blame yourself. How about taking on Burmese instead?

Keep in mind that part (just part) of this situation involves 'avoiding confrontation / avoiding uncomfortable situations and discussions'. A discussions about resignation would, for many folks, be seen as confrontation / awkward and best avoided.

[Thingamabob]

14 hours ago, proton said:

Sounds completely normal behaviour for Thailand, don't blame yourself. How about taking on Burmese instead?

  ...and now completely normal behaviour for many countries in the west.

[Sydebolle]

Thailand's labour market is hopelessly spoilt and absolutely destructive; for me reason enough to sell my restaurant (5 years ago); I will never ever do anything here again which depends on labour.

It is not about the pay, it is about the absolute lack of loyalty and that belongs into the educational corner of children - which is in blunt absence as we know.

They got, in the day, a minimum of 15,000 Baht, six days a week with seven working hours; a free meal, all the rest like SS, health insurance, uniform  (which we washed at our premises for them). 
Salary end of the month, tips were accrued (never below 10,000 Baht/person) and paid middle of the month, so they would have money twice a month. Working conditions were nice with mandatory working blocks (Xmas, New Year, Songkran, Loy Krathong) which got compensated with one month fully paid vacation. 

Despite all those fringe benefits - nothing extraordinary as an European employer - I had staff disappearing into thin air without notice nor apparent reason. All departures were not work-related as I checked, if there were some tensions among the staff prior to the disappearance. 

 

Leaving without notice cost them physical money, either part of the salary or part of the tip money; they were made aware of that during the hiring interview - to no learning curve. One kitchen helper  left on 12 April (for Songkran most likely), losing 27/30th of a full month tip (THB 14'320) and 12/30th of the salary (15'500 Baht) - in total 19'000 Baht. Well, face, family calls or god-only-knows-what influenced the fellow to write-off 19'000 Baht and I was short of a kitchen helper. 

Don't apply corrective, constructive criticism, as it concerns the semi-divine face. Staff was told,  during the hiring interview, about hygiene. There was a separate (sparkling clean) staff toilet, shower and a basin to wash hands. It was an absolute law in my place to wash hands on leaving the loo. Failure to do so would result in immediate dismissal. Over the 15 years I had the restaurant, I must have fired 10 staff I caught (and the dark figure is considerably higher). See above for "education corner"!  

I have no recipe; being nice and correct is definitely not a guarantee and I am not a slave trader as some local businesspeople were. 

Get a quota for ASEAN migrants (Burmese, Cambodians, Laotians or Philippines), depending on what you need and take it from there. We were given quotas only under the condition, if we would hire ASEAN-staff through agents sitting in front of the labour department of Cholburi. We did that, paid the agent their commission and saw the same staff being "moved" three times from place to place and the agent creamed off the commission each and every time. So I gave up on the quotas and started hiring non-existing staff ????. Then I realized, that the Thai staff considered ASEAN colleagues of lesser status who should be paid less than Khon Thai. I intervened on that idea and two Thai staff left - see "face and loss of the latter"! 

In the end, I gave up, sold the business and Thailand lost some 1'700'000 Baht direct and indirect tax money from my company. 

[batata]

it sounds too much like 7Eleven, the girls there change on  weekly basis as the pay must be on the very low side, if you think you are paying them well, maybe it's just you thinking it and it's worth checking with other employees that still there... there is always a cause and an effect

[Photoguy21]

If you cant depend on your staff turning up can you really say it is successful?

[kingstonkid]

I started a small school tutoring.  First thing my gf and I decided was to hire an office manager to deal with parents and more important to deal with Thai staff hiring and firing.  Paid her well above market value and it was worth every baht.  I taught students set the policies and lessons she dealt with parents and staff issues.

[Jimjim1]

16 hours ago, nightfox said:

Like anything in life, you get what you pay for. Give them a reason to stay by paying them a bit more then the average minimum wage and you will see your revolving door be less revolving. 

Did you ACTUALLY read his post especially about what he pays them and provides for them daily??

 

This to the poster,

Sir you can not buy loyalty as you have found,  so really in my estimation you are paying too much and the provisions you make for them will not make them show respect for you in the slightest, the Thai’s have no understanding of all that you do, and that is why the hi so’s and super rich only pay what is the going rate.

Your generosity to your staff will not be considered by them and you will not gain any empathy with them, the thoughts in the back of their heads is that you are a buffalo and that is why they walk away from the employment you provide.

My advice is to rewrite your contract of employment with clear and concise details in Thai pointing out that if they remove themselves from your employ without giving adequate reason and or notice they will not be paid any outstanding salary.

From the moment they sign the agreement they are responsible for their actions and if they do not show up or simply leave, you send a copy of that agreement with the particular paragraph hi lighted to their telephone so there is no way back for them.

You may still experience a high staff turn over but at least you may retain them for a notice period, however you must watch the closely should they be predisposed to cause damage or insult your customers during the notice period

 

In the interim pay close attention to your current staff and if you notice a slowing down of the efficiency of any one of them that is when you sit them down with a friendly Thai person NOT yourself or any one related to you who you can trust and let him/her find out what is going on in their psyche causing them to leave, you can then take steps to correct the issues.

 

Trusting that you read this, I hope it is helpful to you 

 

[1FinickyOne]

500 a month for lunch?

 

Maybe you are not as generous as you think.

 

This is a problem in usa too. 

 

I would start by having a chat w new employees but this is not a new problem here. 

 

Unemployment rate is low. They can get a different job tomorrow

[billd766]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

This says it all.

 

You recognise your business's success is dependent on your staff.  Treat them as you would your closest family, show them you are one of them and that you value them.

 

I have run a successful business here for 8 years, I have lost one member of staff in that time, because she moved away.  I don't pay substantially more than anyone else, upper quartile for sure, but my staff would consider me their friend and I likewise.  Yes we get the same grandfather dies every year from some of them, but I turn a blind-eye.  Face is everything in Thailand.

 

There is always Lao-khao for them to drink at the end of the working day, if the ice cream bike comes around, they all get given ice creams etc etc.

 

You need to have a special set of inter-personal skills to be successful with Thai workers, never criticise, handle poor workmanship with great tact.  If you don't have these skills, you'll always have a high workforce turnover.

Many years ago I was sent by my company to take over and run a warehouse and speed up supplies and deliveries.

 

That was the easy part. The guys were a contract company and weren't the best of the crop. It was a dirty and hard job so I introduced the last Friday of the month as a beer call afternoon. In the mornings I would bring in crates of beer and ice, layer them in dustbins for a 2pm beer call at my expense. Every second month was a beer call and free Thai food.

 

I included the security guards as well as they had a crappy job and were paid less than my guys.

 

Once I had sorted the paperwork out and the office guys were happy and the warehouse guys were happy, productivity went up as did morale. 

 

In all my time running field teams in a few countries I NEVER promised what I couldn't deliver. I took 50% of the job well done credit and 100% of the <deleted> stopped with me.

 

If you treat your staff as you want to be treated, make sure that they have good working conditions, you are well on the way to be there. If you are a boss and your staff are Thai, find somebody sympathetic who can talk to your workers, and most of all, listen to them not just hear them, and where you can, help them out if they need it.

[nightfox]

4 hours ago, Jimjim1 said:

Did you ACTUALLY read his post especially about what he pays them and provides for them daily??

 

This to the poster,

Sir you can not buy loyalty as you have found,  so really in my estimation you are paying too much and the provisions you make for them will not make them show respect for you in the slightest, the Thai’s have no understanding of all that you do, and that is why the hi so’s and super rich only pay what is the going rate.

Your generosity to your staff will not be considered by them and you will not gain any empathy with them, the thoughts in the back of their heads is that you are a buffalo and that is why they walk away from the employment you provide.

My advice is to rewrite your contract of employment with clear and concise details in Thai pointing out that if they remove themselves from your employ without giving adequate reason and or notice they will not be paid any outstanding salary.

From the moment they sign the agreement they are responsible for their actions and if they do not show up or simply leave, you send a copy of that agreement with the particular paragraph hi lighted to their telephone so there is no way back for them.

You may still experience a high staff turn over but at least you may retain them for a notice period, however you must watch the closely should they be predisposed to cause damage or insult your customers during the notice period

 

In the interim pay close attention to your current staff and if you notice a slowing down of the efficiency of any one of them that is when you sit them down with a friendly Thai person NOT yourself or any one related to you who you can trust and let him/her find out what is going on in their psyche causing them to leave, you can then take steps to correct the issues.

 

Trusting that you read this, I hope it is helpful to you 

 

Are you serious???, 500 bht a month lunch is considered generous to you. Wow I feel sorry for the Thai staff you higher if you think he is paying them to much. In a country like Thailand where money is king and is their number one priority you have to pay way above market price to retain good staff.  

[Lucky Bones]

13 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let me tell you the story of a female friend of my gf. The friend is now maybe 45 years old and she has four kids in the range from about 6 to 21. 

She used to sell food at the local school or market. Now it seems she doesn't find or doesn't like any jobs near her home, about 5 hours away from Bangkok. And some time ago she decided she will come to Bangkok to work here and make money.

Because of her age and being overweight and not fit the numbers of people who want to employ her are low. But she somehow always finds a job. So maybe she works for 4 weeks in a job in Bangkok. And then she misses her kids, which is understandable. And then she decides to visit her kids for a weekend.

After a day home she somehow realizes that a weekend is not really long enough, so she stays a little longer with the kids. And then, maybe a week later, she returns to "her" job. Except it is not her job anymore. Because she didn't show up after the weekend the boss hired someone else. After all, the work has to be done. She is disappointed, why did that boss do that? It was just a couple of days, and she missed her children. 

It seems she doesn't even try to look at it from the perspective of the employer.

So she is looking for work again, another company with another job. And, what a surprise, after a few weeks she misses her kids again. So she goes home again over the weekend. And there someone else tells her about that other job, where she would get 1000B more per months. Oh, that sounds good, lets go there. Should she inform her previous employer who thought she will come back after the weekend? Not really. He will see that she doesn't show up...

This is happening, and with repetitive behavior again and again. Last time she didn't yet miss the children but a relative died and she had to go to the funeral - after she started work maybe 10 days ago. That funeral was obviously important...

Let's look what will happen next. But it doesn't really matter because it will likely be similar to what happened in the past. My gf talked about this with me, and I suggested she should look for work in or near her village. Because otherwise the story will repeat again and again. But no, thinking about what would make sense is just too much headache.

Somehow she seems to me a typical case of how many uneducated Thais "think".

 

I like how you say "uneducated".

Living here, I also use this expression, whereby a number of my mates who still holiday for bar girls, use "stupid".

I often wonder just exactly who is stupid.

Kudos to your view.????????????

 

[KIngsofisaan]

10 hours ago, Inala said:

Now you can see why so many girls take the laying on their back boom boom route in bars & massage etc. A nice easy life compared to their counterparts slaving away under the hot sun in the rice fields. Sleep all day, party at night, time off when you feel like it. And if the girl is reasonably attractive, she'll make much more money than in the rice fields, with the added bonus of being in a better position to one day snag a (hopefully well off) farang boyfriend/husband...   

It is hard to get hired in a normal job with limited education and zero skill

[sikishrory]

My experience working here as a manager was that the staff tend to have all the power.

In the West people try not to lose their job. If they get told off at work or something they try to improve.

In Thailand staff will just walk out leaving you with no staff, sometimes taking their buddies with them. 

I think i also read here that by law you can't fire them or something which I think gives them a fearlessness. If they can't be fired then why would they need to do a good job?

Just sit around cracking nuts, eating the daily rice gossiping and taking the <deleted>.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by sikishrory