Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your view is one of skepticism.  Fingerprints on documents may say otherwise and as they follow up on more leads more people may fall under the view of investigators, I have only seen that not occur only once in my career, and that was when they only wanted the top person prosecuted and the others left to being bagged on other charges.

They certainly won't be fingerprints of FBI agents. Whatever you may think of them, the chances that FBI agents handled those documents with bare hands is nil. So that leaves the secretary, Kilimnick, Trump himself, any of his family, the secret service stationed at his house, etc.

[Tippaporn]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I'm fine with criticizing authority, honestly. But not at the defense of the obvious perpetrator and without a shred if evidence. That's just deflecting and muck raking.

Wait, that's not what you said.  Which was that anyone who questions the honesty of an FBI Director has lost credibility for the shear act of questioning.  So now you say you're fine with questioning an FBI Director . . . honestly, in fact.

So which is it?  Okay?  Not okay?  Depends on which way the wind blows?  Better, depends on how it suits my political viewpoints.

[Liverpool Lou]

17 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Pence who disobey him was almost hang

Nonsense, Pence was not "almost hanged"...Jesus...

[KanchanaburiGuy]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It is a pattern of growing list of people Trump hired who eventually soured on him. Barr who called him crazy for his assertion that the election was fraud and was called “he sucked” by Trump (classy). Pence who disobey him was almost hang, Bolton, Mattis, Kelly and many many more. You don’t think that the problem is Trump?

Lol

 

Remember.........

 

His Game show/Reality show "The Apprentice" was based entirely  on "hiring" a bunch of "wrong" people.......... then he "You're Fired!" them one by one, until there was one "right" person left. Lol

 

Before he was elected and shortly thereafter, people kept saying he was going to be able to get great people. I responded, "Look at The Apprentice. He usually chooses veryn very poorly, not great people!"

 

His rapid revolving-door administration proved me right. In, out. In, out.

 

Indeed, in the last two years, he basically stopped giving people the job! They were all  "temps" or "acting" So and So's! Hahahaha 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Wait, that's not what you said.  Which was that anyone who questions the honesty of an FBI Director has lost credibility for the shear act of questioning.  So now you say you're fine with questioning an FBI Director . . . honestly, in fact.

So which is it?  Okay?  Not okay?  Depends on which way the wind blows?  Better, depends on how it suits my political viewpoints.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Quote me or shut up.

[ThailandRyan]

18 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

They certainly won't be fingerprints of FBI agents. Whatever you may think of them, the chances that FBI agents handled those documents with bare hands is nil. So that leaves the secretary, Kilimnick, Trump himself, any of his family, the secret service stationed at his house, etc.

Did I say they would be FBI prints?  All search warrants are generally served and those looking for items wear gloves.  The prints I am saying they will check for would be others associated with The Donald, maybe his lawyer, his son etc..... There is no way to know where those documents may have traveled to with the Donald, who he could have shown them to, others, ie....why a potential espionage case is being investigated.  All prints will be checked with exemplars on file and known folks whose classification status would have allowed them to touch the documents will be removed as potential suspects.  Had it happen many times. 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

27 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"OK, lets assume you are correct, how is any past conviction for corruption by the FBI relevant?

I am correct.  If the FBI has proved to have been corrupt in the past (it has) it doesn't say much for it going forward and its involvement with this case, does it?   

 

"The mere fact that questions have been asked exonerated Trump?"

Exonerated from what?  He hasn't been charged with anything to be exonerated from!

 

"You're just scratching around to find any reason to excuse Trump or cast doubt on his accusers".

Not at all.  I'm commenting on what some ill-informed posters are saying here.

 

"Unless you can keep the discussion limited to this incident and the documents then you are off topic and deflecting".

All my comments are related to this thread so your assertion that they are "off-topic and deflecting" [sic] is wrong.   Since when have you been authorised to tell other members how to post?  

 

The DoJ is an organization, it is not an individual.

I'm well aware of that.   

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm well aware of that.   

Please do not cut my statements and respond out of context.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

50 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Balls.

You are either completely clueless about security matters or you are trolling.

Or perhaps I just know more than you do about the content of your comment!  

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm well aware of that.   

Please do not cut my statements and respond out of context.

Quoting parts of comments is permitted as long as the snipping does not alter  context.  I did not alter the context of that part of your comment.

[Tippaporn]

40 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

  

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

For your edification having just the papers in his possession is only part of a case for espionage or treason?  There are other factors one must have to put the entire case together.  Do you think that I can obtain a breath test on the spot for driving while drunk and being involved in an accident and arrest and prosecute you the next day?  If you do then you have no idea of what your talking about.  Cases take time, sometimes years to build and then prosecute.  

You would be behind bars though.

I just stumbled upon your simple, succinct, yet deadly accurate reply. 

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Or perhaps I just know more than you do about the content of your comment!  

If you think the content of a document marked TS/SCI has any bearing on the legality of being improperly in possession of such a document, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

[Walker88]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

But most every leftist here has been saying regarding the negotiations Trump was having that it's all cut and dried.  What's there to negotiate?  Trump retained classified documents which he was not legally allowed to have.  Period.  End of story.  If that's true then they have enough hard evidence to arrest him this very moment.

Isn't it typical for law enforcement to make arrests as soon they have the smoking gun?  What more would they be waiting for?

There will build the strongest possible case with the most charges.

 

It is actually bad that he hasn't already been arrested, because it suggests they are building a multi-pronged case which would include violation of the Espionage Act and perhaps even something worse.

 

Also, the fact that he had docs he had no right to hold, and that his counsel lied in June saying 'all classified docs had been returned' shows malicious intent. What did he intend to do with the documents he had zero right to hold?

 

It may well be an even more powerful case where DoJ will charge him with 'Conspiracy to Commit Espionage' if there is behavior to suggest he intended to profit from those documents.

 

Here's how they would build the case:

 

1) He had TS and TS/SCI docs (the FBI released the inventory list detailing this)

 

2) He had zero right to retain these docs

 

3) His counsel signed an affadavit in June claiming (falsely) 45 had returned all classified docs (this indicates intent to deceive)

 

4) What did he intend to do with the docs he lied about retaining?

 

I would not be surprised if his commo was under surveillance, and if there is any indication he intended to profit from the docs, Conspiracy to Commit Espionage---a capital offense---is in the bag.

 

Reports from inside his team say that he is worried folks near him are 'wearing wires'. Does he know he has said stuff he shouldn't say?

 

Might be time to take his passport so that he cannot flee.

[candide]

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The DoJ is an organization, it is not an individual.

 

Individuals may or may not be capable of correcting their behavior, tge ability to correct the behavior of organizations is a demonstrable fact:

 

Fire and replace the management.

Restructure the organization.

Re-write procedures and practices.

Subject the organization to oversight.

 

The list goes on.

 

Your assertion that because the FBI abused its power in the past is somehow evidence of abuse now is patent nonsense.

 

 

 

 

In particular after the IG audit which found some flaws in the process (but also found out that, apart from one sub-case, the Russia investigation had been properly predicated). It compelled the FBI to re-assess and change their procedures.

[Tanlic]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If Trump makes it to be president again, Goddess forbid, he can't be prosecuted during that time. 

As a Brit on the outside looking in I find it amazing how low the standars of education are in the USA and how easily led their people are. 

Joe Biden sits in a bunker eating ice cream and wins their elction beating a President who has done more good in 4 years than any other in history.

 

Trump did get silly saying the elction was rigged which it was but not in the way he was sying it happened. The left's constant barage of lies, hoaxes by the media and fake impeachments convinced the dumbest of the dumb Trump was some kind of monster.

 

The power of the left came to the fore and  the dumbest ice cream eating clown emerged from his bunker to become POTUS. His forst task was to reverse evey bit of good Trump had done and to hell with the consequences. The result the worst economy in history, first American soldiers in 4 years are killed. Putin says Yipee and invades the Ukraine and Rocket man starts playing with his toys again. The ordinary man on the street can hardly pay his bills or fill his car with fuel and Biden's leadership has hit everone in the pocket from Kansas to katchanaburi.

 

SureTrump tells lies like all politicians to try nad sustain support but he's not a crook like Biden or that criminal son of his. Like Hillary and the deletion of 36,000 emails that had been subpoenaed they are untouchable. Trump on the other hand they can't allow him tobecome President again so they come up with yet another witch hunt. Never mind the fact he had the poer to declassify every piece of paper he had the right to remove from the whitehouse. They are looking for affect in the most underhanded move againt an ex President in history.

 

Guess what American Hard Lefties? Their banana republic behaviour is not going to work this time. Apart from Trump being hit by a bolt of ligtning the Trump De Santis avalanche is heading your way at a million miles per hour.

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I just stumbled upon your simple, succinct, yet deadly accurate reply. 

Yet it is wrong.

[Tippaporn]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

25 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

  

57 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well you can look at the evidence they've gathered and wait for the outcome or speculate on the honesty of the FBI director?

Speculating on the honesty of an FBI director is a habit of Trump's. That alone undermines his credibility.

You're an Aussie.  So you can be forgiven for not knowing FBI history.  J. Edgar Hoover was as honest a FBI Director as they come.  Thanks for the injection of some much needed humour in this thread.

Back to being serious.  You suggest that questioning authority undermines one's credibility.  In actuality the reverse is true.  Those who slavishly follow authoritarians have lost all credibility.  And credibility may be the least of the noble virtues one contemptuously kicks to the gutter.

I'm fine with criticizing authority, honestly. But not at the defense of the obvious perpetrator and without a shred if evidence. That's just deflecting and muck raking.

Wait, that's not what you said.  Which was that anyone who questions the honesty of an FBI Director has lost credibility for the shear act of questioning.  So now you say you're fine with questioning an FBI Director . . . honestly, in fact.

So which is it?  Okay?  Not okay?  Depends on which way the wind blows?  Better, depends on how it suits my political viewpoints.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth. Quote me or shut up.

Gladly.

[LosLobo]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

If Trump makes it to be president again, Goddess forbid, he can't be prosecuted during that time. 

Possibly this was why Trump was trying to "play out the clock" by refusing access to the NARA documents, as is his usual MO.
 

Constitutional issues about separation of powers conflict with the fact that "no-one is above the law". Trump already has been deemed not above the law by SCOTUS in two cases when he was sitting president. His lawyer in impeachment, Ken Starr, also the prosecutor for Bill Clinton's case, also deems "no-one is above the law" even a sitting POTUS.
 

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

As a Brit on the outside looking in I find it amazing how low the standars of education are in the USA and how easily led their people are. 

Joe Biden sits in a bunker eating ice cream and wins their elction beating a President who has done more good in 4 years than any other in history.

 

Trump did get silly saying the elction was rigged which it was but not in the way he was sying it happened. The left's constant barage of lies, hoaxes by the media and fake impeachments convinced the dumbest of the dumb Trump was some kind of monster.

 

The power of the left came to the fore and  the dumbest ice cream eating clown emerged from his bunker to become POTUS. His forst task was to reverse evey bit of good Trump had done and to hell with the consequences. The result the worst economy in history, first American soldiers in 4 years are killed. Putin says Yipee and invades the Ukraine and Rocket man starts playing with his toys again. The ordinary man on the street can hardly pay his bills or fill his car with fuel and Biden's leadership has hit everone in the pocket from Kansas to katchanaburi.

 

SureTrump tells lies like all politicians to try nad sustain support but he's not a crook like Biden or that criminal son of his. Like Hillary and the deletion of 36,000 emails that had been subpoenaed they are untouchable. Trump on the other hand they can't allow him tobecome President again so they come up with yet another witch hunt. Never mind the fact he had the poer to declassify every piece of paper he had the right to remove from the whitehouse. They are looking for affect in the most underhanded move againt an ex President in history.

 

Guess what American Hard Lefties? Their banana republic behaviour is not going to work this time. Apart from Trump being hit by a bolt of ligtning the Trump De Santis avalanche is heading your way at a million miles per hour.

How did you get inside my head to write that?  Bravo, mate! 

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

As a Brit on the outside looking in I find it amazing how low the standars of education are in the USA and how easily led their people are. 

Joe Biden sits in a bunker eating ice cream and wins their elction beating a President who has done more good in 4 years than any other in history.

 

Trump did get silly saying the elction was rigged which it was but not in the way he was sying it happened. The left's constant barage of lies, hoaxes by the media and fake impeachments convinced the dumbest of the dumb Trump was some kind of monster.

 

The power of the left came to the fore and  the dumbest ice cream eating clown emerged from his bunker to become POTUS. His forst task was to reverse evey bit of good Trump had done and to hell with the consequences. The result the worst economy in history, first American soldiers in 4 years are killed. Putin says Yipee and invades the Ukraine and Rocket man starts playing with his toys again. The ordinary man on the street can hardly pay his bills or fill his car with fuel and Biden's leadership has hit everone in the pocket from Kansas to katchanaburi.

 

SureTrump tells lies like all politicians to try nad sustain support but he's not a crook like Biden or that criminal son of his. Like Hillary and the deletion of 36,000 emails that had been subpoenaed they are untouchable. Trump on the other hand they can't allow him tobecome President again so they come up with yet another witch hunt. Never mind the fact he had the poer to declassify every piece of paper he had the right to remove from the whitehouse. They are looking for affect in the most underhanded move againt an ex President in history.

 

Guess what American Hard Lefties? Their banana republic behaviour is not going to work this time. Apart from Trump being hit by a bolt of ligtning the Trump De Santis avalanche is heading your way at a million miles per hour.

And God will cover the world in a flood and only animals 2x2 will be let on the ark....your dreaming and the Sandman has filled your ever loving Trump addled visions with pure wild dreams....the man will never be President again.....

[candide]

7 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

As a Brit on the outside looking in I find it amazing how low the standars of education are in the USA and how easily led their people are. 

Joe Biden sits in a bunker eating ice cream and wins their elction beating a President who has done more good in 4 years than any other in history.

 

Trump did get silly saying the elction was rigged which it was but not in the way he was sying it happened. The left's constant barage of lies, hoaxes by the media and fake impeachments convinced the dumbest of the dumb Trump was some kind of monster.

 

The power of the left came to the fore and  the dumbest ice cream eating clown emerged from his bunker to become POTUS. His forst task was to reverse evey bit of good Trump had done and to hell with the consequences. The result the worst economy in history, first American soldiers in 4 years are killed. Putin says Yipee and invades the Ukraine and Rocket man starts playing with his toys again. The ordinary man on the street can hardly pay his bills or fill his car with fuel and Biden's leadership has hit everone in the pocket from Kansas to katchanaburi.

 

SureTrump tells lies like all politicians to try nad sustain support but he's not a crook like Biden or that criminal son of his. Like Hillary and the deletion of 36,000 emails that had been subpoenaed they are untouchable. Trump on the other hand they can't allow him tobecome President again so they come up with yet another witch hunt. Never mind the fact he had the poer to declassify every piece of paper he had the right to remove from the whitehouse. They are looking for affect in the most underhanded move againt an ex President in history.

 

Guess what American Hard Lefties? Their banana republic behaviour is not going to work this time. Apart from Trump being hit by a bolt of ligtning the Trump De Santis avalanche is heading your way at a million miles per hour.

Brit but quite knowledgeable about U.S. right-wing propaganda, it seems! ????

[Eric Loh]

19 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, Pence was not "almost hanged"...Jesus...

Almost hang and Trump thought Pence deserved chants of “hang Mike”. Smart of Mike not getting into the car driven by the secret agents. May have cost him his life. Meanwhile Trump was watching all that on TV with absolutely no concern for his VP. 

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I know of no driver who has failed to pass a sobriety test not being arrested on the spot, especially after an accident.  Courts are booked with current cases and so your appearance goes to the end of the line.  But you will be busted on the spot.  In your given scenario your suggestion that the arrest and prosecution happens after a case is first built gives me little confidence that you understand the process well enough to provide edification to anyone.

Aside from that comment you miss my point.  Which is that to say that the prevailing consensus amongst leftists here is that the law regarding possession of classified documents is unambiguous and therefore Trump has been caught dead to rights, is guilty, and should immediately advance to Leavenworth.  What case needs to be built?  So if the left's consensus is so deadly accurate then why hasn't Trump been arrested?  The question is actually rhetorical from our perspective.

Now I and others are saying "not so fast."  There's much here that needs to be processed . . . properly.  But no, no, no.  The leftists here refuse to entertain any ideas of mitigating circumstances on this cut and dried case that would rain on their victory lap parade.  Even in your postings you seem to have concluded the case is done and dusted.   It just needs to be built up further.  That's all.

After six years of trying to get Trump on anything and everything, even a jaywalking charge, it's all been a miserable failure.  But this one I believe will backfire spectacularly.  They went too far this time.  I could be wrong but we'll wait and see.

 

It doesn't matter how strong the evidence is. The Attorney General, especially this one, is going to dot the i's and cross the t's. All of them. Good lawyers are careful. Not impulsive. Come to think of it, that goes for good Presidents, too.  

[candide]

Fun time!

https://www.politico.eu/article/worlds-cartoonists-on-this-weeks-events-59/

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, Tanlic said:

As a Brit on the outside looking in I find it amazing how low the standars of education are in the USA and how easily led their people are. 

Joe Biden sits in a bunker eating ice cream and wins their elction beating a President who has done more good in 4 years than any other in history.

 

Trump did get silly saying the elction was rigged which it was but not in the way he was sying it happened. The left's constant barage of lies, hoaxes by the media and fake impeachments convinced the dumbest of the dumb Trump was some kind of monster.

 

The power of the left came to the fore and  the dumbest ice cream eating clown emerged from his bunker to become POTUS. His forst task was to reverse evey bit of good Trump had done and to hell with the consequences. The result the worst economy in history, first American soldiers in 4 years are killed. Putin says Yipee and invades the Ukraine and Rocket man starts playing with his toys again. The ordinary man on the street can hardly pay his bills or fill his car with fuel and Biden's leadership has hit everone in the pocket from Kansas to katchanaburi.

 

SureTrump tells lies like all politicians to try nad sustain support but he's not a crook like Biden or that criminal son of his. Like Hillary and the deletion of 36,000 emails that had been subpoenaed they are untouchable. Trump on the other hand they can't allow him tobecome President again so they come up with yet another witch hunt. Never mind the fact he had the poer to declassify every piece of paper he had the right to remove from the whitehouse. They are looking for affect in the most underhanded move againt an ex President in history.

 

Guess what American Hard Lefties? Their banana republic behaviour is not going to work this time. Apart from Trump being hit by a bolt of ligtning the Trump De Santis avalanche is heading your way at a million miles per hour.

Let me guess - you're Margaret Thatcher's grandchild? Please spellcheck your posts, she would be embarrassed. Forget grammar, it's a lost cause.

In the next couple of months, I am predicting Trump's so-called avalanche will melt like an ice-cream cone in the Sahara. Take care not to get in the way of the truck that's about to hit him.

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, candide said:

It's been reported by plenty of media.

Here's another one!

https://www.businessinsider.com/jared-kushner-private-equity-firm-funding-from-saudi-arabia-report-2022-4

 

There is an obvious conflict of interest.

 

P.S. Before you start with but, but, Hunter. Hunter was not holding an important position at the WH.

There's an interesting fact jared does not know. Whether this is relevant or not I will not say.

 

jared communicates with MbS via WhatsApp. jared is seemingly unaware that NSA/CIA/FBI can all break WhatsApp's encryption.

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

<snip> Please spellcheck your posts, she would be embarrassed. Forget grammar, it's a lost cause.

<snip>

Substance over form.  He gets an A+.

[Chomper Higgot]

There’s an added advantage of prosecuting Trump on espionage charges.

 

It might be good cause to keep his corpse out of Arlington when he finally croaks.

 

Bury him on a golf course, tge nation’s hero’s deserve not to have him as company.

[talahtnut]

A US congresswoman has submitted a motion to remove

the attorney general from office over the Trump house search.

The stink of Democrat corruption is too much for one woman.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is a s no law against it, there is a DoJ memorandum but it does s not cast in stone.

It pretty much is.