Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm not comparing it to any other organisation.  I am saying that the FBI has been proven to have conducted itself in a corrupt manner in the very recent past.

When, where, what, who? How many people in the FBI were charged with being corrupt or any other crime.

 

You have been accusing the FBI. The FBI employs approximately 35,000 people, including special agents and support professionals such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, and information technology specialists.

 

Do you have any links, reports etc to back this up?

 

The only one I have found so far is this one.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies#Hillary_Clinton_email_in

 

There is a lot of information about different cases and different people and the report needs to be read in full.

[placeholder]

Just now, Tippaporn said:

On a case by case basis, yes.  But not across the board.  That's when a DA takes it upon himself or herself to thumb his or her nose at the legislature which passed the laws the DA is sworn to uphold but then refuses to enforce.

There are all kinds of laws on the books that prosecutors routinely won't enforce. Like marijuana laws making any possession a crime. 

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

It is a Consituational Federal Republic often miscategorized as a Republic or Democracy.

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."

If you want to split hairs go ahead.  Republic for short.

[LosLobo]

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll give you kudos for your passionate beliefs.

"45 had ZERO right to the docs he kept."

You have no way of knowing that with the certainty you express.  That much is obvious to anyone who is looking at this objectively.

"His counsel/he LIED in a signed affadavit in June claiming they had returned everything. That is intent to deceive and can form the basis for charging him with "conspiracy to commit espionage".

Again, you have zero personal knowledge of all of the details regarding whatever Trump transferred back or any of the disputes and talks between Trump and government agencies in the whole.

What you do have so far is a one-sided story put out by a media who has clearly shown they are propagandists.  And the narrative fits like a glove on your Trumpian bias.

The U.S. is not a democracy.  It's a Republic.  That you get this elemental fact wrong suggests you may be wrong about much else.

Please provide evidence that the US is not currently a democracy under Biden.

 

Think this is only your wishful thinking.

 

We all know that under Trump it would an autocracy. An autocratic Republic like Russia.

 

Republics and democracies are not mutually exclusive.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

On a case by case basis, yes.  But not across the board.  That's when a DA takes it upon himself or herself to thumb his or her nose at the legislature which passed the laws the DA is sworn to uphold but then refuses to enforce.

 

[moogradod]

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I do believe in due process. I also believe the system is rigged. And that the chances of an ex prez being charged and jailed are very low. I hope I am wrong. His guilt was never in doubt. That is just who he is, and how he rolls. 

As Ajahn Brahm, a Cambridge educated scientist who become a buddhist monk, Abbot of some temples and spritual advisor of the Buddhist Society of Western Australia used to say:

 

"Dont be angry with them, Karma will get the bastards anyway".

Edited August 14, 2022 by moogradod

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"His counsel/he LIED in a signed affadavit in June claiming they had returned everything. That is intent to deceive and can form the basis for charging him with "conspiracy to commit espionage".

Again, you have zero personal knowledge of all of the details regarding whatever Trump transferred back or any of the disputes and talks between Trump and government agencies in the whole.

What you do have so far is a one-sided story put out by a media who has clearly shown they are propagandists.  And the narrative fits like a glove on your Trumpian bias.

Are you saying that the Justice Department is lying or its dreamed up by the media?

 

"The lawyer signed a statement in June that all documents marked as classified and held in boxes in storage at Mar-a-Lago had been given back. The search at the former president’s home on Monday turned up more. The written declaration was made after a visit on June 3 to Mar-a-Lago by Jay I. Bratt, the top counterintelligence official in the Justice Department’s national security division."

Edited August 14, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If Trump makes it to be president again, Goddess forbid, he can't be prosecuted during that time. 

There is that IF word again.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

It is a Consituational Federal Republic often miscategorized as a Republic or Democracy.

The US is best described as a representative Democracy. The founding fathers being educated in the classics understood pure democracy to to be government by citizens meeting and deciding the laws. Such as was the case in Greek city states like Athens.  Obviously not practicable for a county as big as the United States. Instead they set up a system for the people to vote for representatives to meet and decide the laws and Presidents to execute the laws.

So the US is not a pure democracy  but to say it's not one at all is just playing a silly game of semantics.

 

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/

[spidermike007]

4 minutes ago, moogradod said:

As Ajahn Brahm, a Cambridge educated scientist who become a buddhist monk, Abbot of some temples and spritual advisor of the Buddhist Society of Western Australia used to say:

 

"Dont be angry with them, Karma will get the bastards anyway".

True. But, karma is a strange thing. It may be lifetimes before it catches up with a guy like Trump. And there is another rather strange phenomenon at work. It does appear as if the universe is set up in such a way that men of very low character and ethics seem to be supported and appear to thrive. It is as if they are needed for the drama to continue. 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, moogradod said:

As Ajahn Brahm, a Cambridge educated scientist who become a buddhist monk, Abbot of some temples and spritual advisor of the Buddhist Society of Western Australia used to say:

 

"Dont be angry with them, Karma will get the bastards anyway".

The thing is, has Karma gotten us through the agency of Trump. Was one term enough expiation?

[mikeymike100]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I do believe in due process. I also believe the system is rigged. And that the chances of an ex prez being charged and jailed are very low. I hope I am wrong. His guilt was never in doubt. That is just who he is, and how he rolls. 

I certainly agree the 'system' is not perfect, but its the best we have.

You think his guilt "was never in doubt" , I believe his guilt, or innocence is up to a jury to decide, but we are getting way ahead of ourselves.

Edited August 14, 2022 by mikeymike100

[moogradod]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But, karma is a strange thing. It may be lifetimes before it catches up with a guy like Trump. And there is another rather strange phenomenon at work. It does appear as if the universe is set up in such a way that men of very low character and ethics seem to be supported and appear to thrive. It is as if they are needed for the drama to continue. 

Karma is a difficult topic to understand. Just BECAUSE it encompasses endless lifetimes. That is the reason why seemingly men of very low character seem to be favoured by fate. But this may be due to Karmic imprints from whenever times past. The impact of their present actions will not vanish nevertheless and bear their fruits.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, Pence was not "almost hanged"...Jesus...

Of course not. The crowd of people would not have harmed even a hair on his head.

 

However others may think differently.

 

Perhaps you are right and everybody else is wrong. (But I don't think so).

 

About 1,250,000 results (0.44 seconds) 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCbTgDC14uY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7aaXt3EARg

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyEQaTlcJb8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkSGOduAN0c

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/28/jan-6-heari

 

https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/blitts-kvetchbook/hang-mike-pence

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/jan-6-committee-shows-video-of-protesters-chanting-hang-mike-pence-142262341584

 

https://www.politico.com/video/2022/06/28/hutchinson-meadows-said-that-trump-thought-pence-deserved-chants-calling-for-him-to-be-hanged-627092

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics/donald-trump-january-6-mike-pence-chants/index.html

 

[ThailandRyan]

45 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The US is best described as a representative Democracy. The founding fathers being educated in the classics understood pure democracy to to be government by citizens meeting and deciding the laws. Such as was the case in Greek city states like Athens.  Obviously not practicable for a county as big as the United States. Instead they set up a system for the people to vote for representatives to meet and decide the laws and Presidents to execute the laws.

So the US is not a pure democracy  but to say it's not one at all is just playing a silly game of semantics.

 

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/yes-constitution-democracy/616949/

What type of government is the US, exactly?

To be very specific, the United States could be defined as a “federal constitutional representative democracy.” You might also call it a “federal constitutional republic.” Let’s break those terms down.

Constitutional: Our system of government is considered constitutional, because the power exercised by the people and their representatives is bound by the constitution and the broader rule of law.

Federal: Our government is also a federal system, since power is shared between a national government, representing the entire populace, and regional and local governments.

These two terms can come in handy when you want to get really exact with your description. It’s accurate to call our government a “federal constitutional republic” or a “federal constitutional democracy,” but it’s probably overkill to be that specific. These terms just help us further define our governmental structure, especially when comparing the United States to other countries.

Edited August 14, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[proton]

21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

True. But, karma is a strange thing. It may be lifetimes before it catches up with a guy like Trump. And there is another rather strange phenomenon at work. It does appear as if the universe is set up in such a way that men of very low character and ethics seem to be supported and appear to thrive. It is as if they are needed for the drama to continue. 

Karma is a myth for fools to believe in, where was karma when it came to dishing it out to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot etc? The answer is usually well they will get it in their next life, which conveniently there is no proof for either.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

There is a story, often told, that upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was approached by a group of citizens asking what sort of government the delegates had created. His answer was: "A republic, if you can keep it."

If you want to split hairs go ahead.  Republic for short.

Perhaps Franklin had in mind the possibility of a President losing an election then encouraging his supporters to overthrow the election result.

 

Or maybe Franklin envisaged a President being investigated for serious crimes and his supporters responding by threatening  civil war.

[moogradod]

25 minutes ago, proton said:

Karma is a myth for fools to believe in, where was karma when it came to dishing it out to Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot etc? The answer is usually well they will get it in their next life, which conveniently there is no proof for either.

What proof you would accept ? Is not your own experience of life enough to prove that actions bear consequences ? For Stalin and all the rest please read again my post above. And your statement "Karma is a myth for fools to believe in", does not only lack proof as well, it does show that you unfortunately did not have the chance yet to contemplate the issue well. But I suggest to concentrate again on the main topic here. Good luck anyway.

[BonMot]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

the chances of an ex prez being charged and jailed are very low. I hope I am wrong. His guilt was never in doubt.

Substitute Secy of State and you'd be dead on. Hillary Clinton was found to have broken several federal laws. Trump not a one.

[LosLobo]

6 minutes ago, BonMot said:

Substitute Secy of State and you'd be dead on. Hillary Clinton was found to have broken several federal laws. Trump not a one.

What laws were Hillary found guilty of breaking?
 

Edited August 14, 2022 by LosLobo

[BonMot]

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

I disagree, Merrick Garland is nothing like Trump!

I'm no fan of Trump. He's a clown but what's going on and the conspiracies against him are both wrong and legion.

 

We either have the rule of law or don't. Apparently, under Biden and from day one we do not.

 

Carter, a mediocre president but our last statesman. The rest military industrial complex criminals and that very much includes Obama.

 

Agenda driven politics is cheap, low IQ and ever present in US and on this board. Card carrying members of the FSA.

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Selective enforcement of the law is not something new:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_enforcement

Lol

 

Even in The Andy Griffith Show from the early 60's, the town drunk, Otis, was effectively given a pass. He got drunk, wandered into the jail, and spent the night there to "sleep it off." 

 

In the morning, Andy and Barney would bid him a "Good Mornin', Otis" and Otis would amble on out the door.

 

No booking.

No charges.

No arraignment.

No judges.

But definitely, unquestionably drunk. Lol

 

Now, you might say, "Yeah, but that's fiction."

 

But think about it. Do you think The Andy Griffith Show could have gotten away with how Otis was managed by the Sheriff, rather than prosecuted.......... if Americans of that era hadn't recognized that as typical and expected  Small Town behavior?

 

Yes, Otis was the town drunk, second. But he was their neighbor and a member of the community, first. And that's how they treated him........ Not as a Law and Order problem, but as a neighbor WITH a problem.

 

The point is........

 

Discretion is not a new idea. 60 years ago, it even played a part as a recurring idea on one of the major TV sitcoms of the era.

 

----------------

----------------

 

(((The actor's name was Hal Smith. He had another role at the same time playing "The Pancake Man" on a local Los Angeles children's show sponsored by The International House of Pancakes [IHOP]. My father worked for IHOP at the time......."I hop, you hop, we all hop for IHOP!" Lol ........... as a training coordinator. But he also had the responsibility of finding ways to work creative versions of pancakes [International Pancakes] into the "Pancake Man" story lines.

 

We had Mr Smith over for dinner a few times, to treat him to "a home cooked meal." Lol [My grandma's foil-wrapped Pot Roast with the Lipton Onion Soup topper and roast potatoes was to die for! Lol] I recall him being a nice man and a friend to my dad, but nothing else.)))

 

Ah, isn't it true: Every life is a fascinating life, because everyone lives many lives.......... on their journey from birth to death!

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by KanchanaburiGuy

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'm not comparing it to any other organisation.  I am saying that the FBI has been proven to have conducted itself in a corrupt manner in the very recent past.

When, where, what, who? How many people in the FBI were charged with being corrupt or any other crime.

"When, where, what, who? 

Jesus...

 

"How many people in the FBI were charged with being corrupt or any other crime".

Exactly, Q.E.D.

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense, Pence was not "almost hanged"...Jesus...

Correct.   Trump only said Pence 'deserves' to be hanged because he disobeyed his asinine, unhinged order to break the law for him.  That's sooo much better, innit?

Glad you think so.

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic and trolling posts remived,

[BonMot]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"When, where, what, who? 

Jesus...

 

"How many people in the FBI were charged with being corrupt or any other crime".

Exactly, Q.E.D.

Try and keep up

 

Liberal VOA

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_former-fbi-lawyer-involved-russia-investigation-pleads-guilty/6194438.html

 

Criminal he was found not guilty.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/durham-sussmann-put-his-lie-to-the-fbi-in-writing/ar-AAVST6x

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/peter-strzok-fired-fbi/index.html

 

https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/anti-trump-fbi-agents-lisa-page-peter-strzok-lied-about-affair-book-claims/

 

https://thenewamerican.com/why-mccabe-was-fired/

[BonMot]

Investigation Espionage lol.

 

I smell another Jan 6 show trial .That is an absolute farce. Let the Dems wear it like a sword of Damocles

 

Mid term elections.... How convenient. Too lol.

 

A president charged with espionage. It's laughable on it's face.

[ozimoron]

And, as far as Donald Trump is concerned, Democrats still think Donald Trump is the best Republican nominee for Democrats to run against. They think he is politically weak, not only with Democrats but with moderate and independent voters as well,

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2657860680/

[BonMot]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

When, where, what, who? How many people in the FBI were charged with being corrupt or any other crime.

 

You have been accusing the FBI. The FBI employs approximately 35,000 people, including special agents and support professionals such as intelligence analysts, language specialists, scientists, and information technology specialists.

 

Do you have any links, reports etc to back this up?

 

The only one I have found so far is this one.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FBI_controversies#Hillary_Clinton_email_in

 

There is a lot of information about different cases and different people and the report needs to be read in full.

Please review my post above. Mind you that is only related to the Russia hoax and not the myriad of other supra judicial criminality or interlinking Hunter Biden schemes and scams.

 

DOJ under Garland and subsequent three equally dysfunctional

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, BonMot said:

Please review my post above. Mind you that is only related to the Russia hoax and not the myriad of other supra judicial criminality or interlinking Hunter Biden schemes and scams.

 

DOJ under Garland and subsequent three equally dysfunctional

You mentioned a lot of stuff here but nothing about Trump or the documents. Look over there, a squirrel.