Do We Betray our Country of Origin, Just through Writing Style and Choice of Words? Even when we try to mask our nationalities?

[GammaGlobulin]

Dear Friends,

 

Although it might not matter to most, still it seems to matter to some.

 

Is it possible that, over time, after writing 500,000 words or more, on the Farang Pub, that anyone can hide their country of origin from careful readers, here?

 

For example, for eons, I had tried, and still try, to feign that I am functionally illiterate, just striking keys with all thumbs, using malapropisms and abusing English grammar, at will.

 

Yet, still, I have always been careful to maintain some semblance of well-written English, and, maybe, even a degree of writing excellence above the standard I have read on this Farang Pub.

 

It is one thing to try to disguise one's nationality through changing one's writing style.  This is totally fine.

 

However, it is not fine to make spelling errors, grammar errors, punctuation errors, or mix up the past tense with the previous tenses.

 

Also, writing changes over time.  Did you think that people, 5000 years ago, write now, as they do, today?

 

Even 60 years ago, people did not write as they do, today.

 

This is a super-interesting Topic, I think.

For example, how has my writing style changed over time, during the past many years.

And, as well, is it possible for me to change my writing style just to feign being an Irish author, for example.

Sure.  I would dearly love to be an Irish author.  But, this does not mean I could become one, just by changing my writing styles.

Being an Irish author takes intelligence and wit, for example.

 

So, anyway, I did not want to mention any particular culture, country, or place.

I just wanted to know if people here can easily tell, just by reading the writer's writing style, where the writer hails from.

 

When I read posts on the Farang Pub, in most cases, I do not worry too much about the country of origin for any given writer.

I am too busy laughing.

 

However, I know that, on occasion, some readers try to guess where some writer might be educated, or uneducated.

I do not know why they might wish to have this information.

If the writer is famous, then one might wish to know.

Otherwise, then why worry about it?

 

From a linguistics/linguistical point of view, a close analysis of our writings and postings might identify us as being from one place or another.

However, again, would this be so easy, do you think?

 

What I am saying is this:

 

Let us say that I grew up reading nothing but William Thackeray.

And then, after reading all of Thackeray, I happened to watch the Barry Lyndon film, ten times.

Then, do you suppose, I would write anything like somebody who had rafted on the Mississippi?

 

Therefore, I will say no more, except to ask your opinion about whether or not you can easily identify the nationality of a casual writer on the Farang Pub, without careful scrutiny.

 

Again, very best regards,

Gamma

 

Please Note:  In the following thread, if there is one, then I might be tempted to add a clip from Barry Lyndon, a wonderful film by Stanley Kubrick, in which Stanley gets shot in the leg.

 

Thank you.

 

Another Note:  Although I can write better than this, yet, I just would like you to know that I am not shirking, and have never considered myself to be a slacker.  Barry Lyndon, in my opinion, was also very misunderstood, especially by his wife.

 

 

Kubrick is amazing.

The film score adapted to this film is amazingly, amazing.

Please enjoy this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

No way dude!

[alyx]

22 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Being an Irish author takes intelligence and wit, for example

You should have a go at it as you do not seem to lack either one 

 

Regarding your question, I am pretty sure that authors are betrayed by their writing ... idioms can be taught/learned but Culture, hence way of thinking, is another matter

Even a total immersion might not be enough

[GammaGlobulin]

3 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

No way dude!

I thought not.

Thank you.

[ChrisP24]

I suppose it's possible but I'm not sure why anyone would try to mask their nationality on an expat forum by altering their writing style.   Brits generally give it away early on with their spelling of certain words.  In my expereience Scandinavians have a particular pattern with word order when writing English.  Americans fall across the whole spectrum depending on their education level and whether they've been drinking.  For Australians, just assume they've been drinking from the get-go and maybe have a couple yourself before reading their posts. ????????????    Ditto Kiwis except only have one or two (and assume they have also).

 

Any of the above of course is anecdotal based on just my own experience, and not stereotyping in any way.????

 

I also find it interesting to read (and even more to listen to)  English writtten or spoken by people who have traveled extensively and picked up language habits from multiple English-speaking countries even one where English as a second language is widely spoken.   

 

[GammaGlobulin]

38 minutes ago, ChrisP24 said:

I suppose it's possible but I'm not sure why anyone would try to mask their nationality on an expat forum by altering their writing style.   Brits generally give it away early on with their spelling of certain words.  In my expereience Scandinavians have a particular pattern with word order when writing English.  Americans fall across the whole spectrum depending on their education level and whether they've been drinking.  For Australians, just assume they've been drinking from the get-go and maybe have a couple yourself before reading their posts. ????????????    Ditto Kiwis except only have one or two (and assume they have also).

 

Any of the above of course is anecdotal based on just my own experience, and not stereotyping in any way.????

 

I also find it interesting to read (and even more to listen to)  English writtten or spoken by people who have traveled extensively and picked up language habits from multiple English-speaking countries even one where English as a second language is widely spoken.   

 

A well-considered response, and have you also considered writers from Singapore?

 

These guys are not only smart but also easily identify themselves by quirky word constructions.

 

Singapore harbors a total mishmash of English speakers and writers with unique word usage and writing styles.

Yet, it's not too difficult to group them in one heterogenous bunch, if you have been around them, long enough.

 

The interesting thing is, when you ask them, they always insist that their First Language is English.

But, when you ask them about their "native language",  they hem and haw.

 

Anyway, I can tell you how to separate writers from Singapore from the rest of the bunch:

 

Just give them a short test on prepositions.

 

It's easy for guys from Singapore to pass themselves off as native-English speakers....UNTIL... you test them on their usage of prepositions.  Then....they fall by the wayside.

 

Proper use of prepositions is not so easy because...there are no "rules" that can be memorized.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Baron Samedi]

It depends. I would say it's pretty easy to figure out who is a native speaker and who's not. Figuring out the exact country though is a whole different story. Unless the author gives away some kind of cultural information, I don't see how you could do it...

[GammaGlobulin]

53 minutes ago, alyx said:

You should have a go at it as you do not seem to lack either one 

 

Regarding your question, I am pretty sure that authors are betrayed by their writing ... idioms can be taught/learned but Culture, hence way of thinking, is another matter

Even a total immersion might not be enough

I think you are correct in this.

 

However, never underestimate a thorough test in the use of prepositions to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

There are just too many pretenders out there who would dearly love to pass themselves off as native-English speakers.

 

Personally, I do not consider myself as a native-English speaker.

 

The reason for this is because, during the past forty, or more, years, I have been going native in Asia.

 

When I, now, speak by phone with my relatives back home, after over 40 years, they are hard put to understand me.  They say I sound like a Chinaman.  And, I know this is true. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

It depends. I would say it's pretty easy to figure out who is a native speaker and who's not. Figuring out the exact country though is a whole different story. Unless the author gives away some kind of cultural information, I don't see how you could do it...

Google can easily discriminate, just by writing style and word usage, I would imagine, even if Google did not have far more much more conclusive information to go by.

 

In fact, if there is not already an app, then maybe we should create an app to identify Farang Pub writers, according to their writing style, socioeconomic class, hair style, and sense of humor, or lack of it.

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

"WORDS-R-US"

 

And you are on the unlimited plan... 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

"WORDS-R-US"

 

And you are on the unlimited plan... 

Thank you, my friend.

Did you notice?

I just passed 500,000 words on this righteous forum.

This is no small achievement, at least for me.

I have enjoyed every word of it.

[ChrisP24]

30 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

and sense of humor, or lack of it.

 

 

Well now that last one would be a giveaway for a German........????

[starky]

Oi! You 'avin a laff ya mug?

[GammaGlobulin]

One more question:

 

Would you prefer 'gathering gloom'

or

Would you prefer 'gathering glome'

 

Guys in Singapore, as young as this city-state is, probably have never even heard of the gloaming of anything. Maybe, they have never read any decent poetry, or books, for example.  They know not much about the gloaming of anything worthwhile.

 

Guys from Singapore, they are not native-English speakers.

 

On the other hand, in the UK, you will find fine writers of English.

 

Nobody here who is not from the UK need think of writing a decent sentence so perfect and satisfying as any sentence somebody from the UK could toss off at a moment's notice.

 

Do I think this is true?

 

YES.  I know this is true.

 

In the UK, babes are born speaking fluent English, and then they are sent to some school at Windsor, Berkshire, in order to improve upon what they were born with.

 

This is the way it was in 1967.

 

1967 was a far better year than 2020 ever was, and more romantic.

 

 

JUST what Truth is, I can't say, anymore...

 

 

 

 

'Cause I love you!

I LOVE you!

 

Nights in White Satin.....

 

Evermore.

 

 

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,

Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore—

    While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,

As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.

“’Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door—

            Only this and nothing more.”

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

How many here have read John Cheever? 

 

I once locked myself in a room with nothing but John Cheever books, for one week. I even read his daughter's book about Cheever before I unlocked the door. I consumed nothing other than potatoes and water for a week. 

 

This is how much I love John Cheever. 

 

To this day, anytime I hear or read a passage from John Cheever, I know his nationality. 

 

Some might say that The New Yorker is the house that Cheever built. 

 

What would you say? 

 

Cheever never masked his nationality, nor could he. 

[GammaGlobulin]

These days, of course, now that the entire world seems to be going to pot, no one seems interested in reading much beyond the level of Harry Potter. 

 

Even my best friend has stopped reading anything like the likes of Philip Roth. 

 

Philip Roth should have received a Nobel for literature. 

 

But, the reason he was overlooked for the Prize was because his sentences were too long, too beautiful, and too well crafted. 

 

And, for other obvious reasons, as everybody knows. 

 

Can you even imagine Philip Roth on Twitter? 

 

Trump, yes. 

Twitter is the perfect platform for any old Trump. 

 

So, don't wonder why your brain continues to shrink on Twitter when you should, actually, be reading books, written in perfect paragraphs, by writers like Roth. 

 

Too much work, you say, to read just one thought-provoking sentence? 

 

The world is going to pot. And, THIS is the way they like it. 

[JayClay]

5 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

For example, for eons, I had tried, and still try, to feign that I am functionally illiterate,

You do a really good job of that.

[Boomer6969]

Didn't read your post, too many words. But I am going to watch Barry Lyndon, once more. 

 

And set up a Kubrick collection on my media server. Full metal jacket is formidable too

[CharlieH]

Reading this forum over the years it has become quite easy to identify some nationalites by how they write, and certainly easy to spot a non-native English speaker as I think many can.

Certain phrases and attitudes are difficult to mask when in the flow of conversation, sometimes I can tell who has written something without looking at the avatar/name! the OP is a perect example ????

 

 

[Damrongsak]

4 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

...Proper use of prepositions is not so easy because...there are no "rules" that can be memorized. ...

Is that anything like Thai "classifier" words?  Those are pretty slippery in my experience. There's a whole bunch of them.

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Didn't read your post, too many words. But I am going to watch Barry Lyndon, once more. 

 

And set up a Kubrick collection on my media server. Full metal jacket is formidable too

Some say, mistakenly, that Barry Lyndon is boring and tedious to watch, at times. 

 

In fact, the film is one of Kubrick's best. Although, it is not suitable for the general audience, and same goes for the beauty of watching opera or ballet. 

 

Just because the vast majority of people are unable to sit, rapt, through an entire performance of Rostropovich playing solo cello for 90 minutes, does not mean that the performance is not a work of supreme art or great value. 

 

Enjoy your collection of Kubrick's films, especially Barry Lyndon. 

 

Someday, as well, you might learn to better appreciate the few well-chosen words I sometimes write on this forum. 

 

There may never again be films as great as we had decades ago. They just don't play well with worldwide audiences who don't speak English, and who are not accustomed to reading books. 

 

Movies, these days, are made for the guy who comes to clean your swimming pool. 

[GammaGlobulin]

34 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

Is that anything like Thai "classifier" words?  Those are pretty slippery in my experience. There's a whole bunch of them.

Not really. 

 

Thai classifier words, same with Chinese classifiers, can be memorized. 

 

But, prepositions cannot. 

 

I went under the bridge and through the tunnel passing by the cow before I saw a bird in the tree ten miles before I entered the gate of London Town. 

 

Classifiers, in Thai, are easy, by comparison to such a journey. 

 

So then... 

 

Would you use.. 

 

by comparison to 

or 

in comparison to 

 

It ups to you. 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

from the get-go

[Lacessit]

I don't see any reason to hide my Australian nationality on this forum.

I've read literature from all over the world, although translations probably detract from the impact and subtleties of a book in the original language.

Having said that, most non-Australian posters have probably never heard of authors such as Henry Lawson, Arthur Upfield, Henry Handel Richardson, Dal Stivens, Marcus Clarke, or John O'Grady.

I suppose Edward Dyson's " The Golden Shanty" would not be published nowadays, being racist in some eyes.

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't see any reason to hide my Australian nationality on this forum.

I've read literature from all over the world, although translations probably detract from the impact and subtleties of a book in the original language.

Having said that, most non-Australian posters have probably never heard of authors such as Henry Lawson, Arthur Upfield, Henry Handel Richardson, Dal Stivens, Marcus Clarke, or John O'Grady.

I suppose Edward Dyson's " The Golden Shanty" would not be published nowadays, being racist in some eyes.

Speaking of Dyson, what, if anything, have you read about Dyson spheres? 

 

And, can you explain, from what you have read, why Dyson spheres are physically impossible? 

[LaosLover]

Back in the days of the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree Forum, there was thousand+ responses to an American who claimed he sewed a Canadian flag on his backpack so as to be better accepted by Euro's.

 

Almost certainly an early instance of what we now call trolling. It's still a running joke on the Lonely Planet spinoff forum. I can't think of any other instance of someone pretending to be from somewhere else.

 

Australians have a faking advantage over Americans who cannot discern an Oz accent from a brit one, unless the speaker is urging them to throw another shrimp on the barbie. I lived in England for 8 years and I can only tell the difference about two thirds of the time.

[CharlieH]

10 minutes ago, LaosLover said:

Back in the days of the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree Forum, there was thousand+ responses to an American who claimed he sewed a Canadian flag on his backpack so as to be better accepted by Euro's.

 

Almost certainly an early instance of what we now call trolling. It's still a running joke on the Lonely Planet spinoff forum. I can't think of any other instance of someone pretending to be from somewhere else.

 

Australians have a faking advantage over Americans who cannot discern an Oz accent from a brit one, unless the speaker is urging them to throw another shrimp on the barbie. I lived in England for 8 years and I can only tell the difference about two thirds of the time.

Australians sound like they mixed tneir vowels, goodiy mite switching a for i, as an example ????

As for Britain, I think you woud be hard pushed to spot an actual real Englishman in many towns these days.

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Speaking of Dyson, what, if anything, have you read about Dyson spheres? 

 

And, can you explain, from what you have read, why Dyson spheres are physically impossible? 

Not being an astrophysicist, I would not know.

 

I do know what was deemed impossible 100 years ago is now commonplace in our lives, and we probably have not changed our mindset.

 

I understand Dyson is a manufacturer of vacuum cleaners and dryers.

[GammaGlobulin]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't see any reason to hide my Australian nationality on this forum.

I've read literature from all over the world, although translations probably detract from the impact and subtleties of a book in the original language.

Having said that, most non-Australian posters have probably never heard of authors such as Henry Lawson, Arthur Upfield, Henry Handel Richardson, Dal Stivens, Marcus Clarke, or John O'Grady.

I suppose Edward Dyson's " The Golden Shanty" would not be published nowadays, being racist in some eyes.

You seem to be listing authors more famous in Australia, a country of only 27 million. 

 

Did you expect that the world might know so much about a country with only 27 million inhabitants, so far south of the equator, when Shanghai is above the equator, and has 26 million highly educated people people, with a high literacy rate, high IQ, and a maglev train from the airport to the city? 

 

Also, Shanghai people are world-renowned bankers and sophisticates. 

 

Therefore, have you read and enjoyed the Dream of the Red Chamber? 

 

One thing you cannot deny, my friend, is that, in China, and in other places around the world, great books were written even before anyone downunder knew how to spell the word, billibong. 

 

As I have steadfastly maintained, Aussies are extremely nice people, similar to people you might find in Iowa, except Aussies know how to sail, too. 

 

If I had my druthers, I would love to live where you live. 

 

And so, I sometimes wonder why you guys are so very anxious to leave and come here. 

 

Is it that you are getting bored and lonely down there? 

 

Are you worried that the world keeps passing you by? 

 

You shouldn't worry because it's your very isolation from the world, and your anachronisms, that we love. 

 

Not to mention, your very dry humor. We, in America, dote on your refined and dry humor. 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Australians sound like they mixed tneir vowels, goodiy mite switching a for i, as an example ????

As for Britain, I think you woud be hard pushed to spot an actual real Englishman in many towns these days.

Try listening to a Kiwi, they interchange vowels far more than we do.

 

I don't know what a real Englishman is, what with Saxon, Norman, Scots and Welsh in the mix. That's just on the Caucasian end. Not to mention the 30 - odd accents and dialects you guys use.

 

I still remember our Latin teacher, who hailed from Northumberland. He sounded like he was talking with a mouthful of butter, took us a few months to understand what the hell he was saying.