How to raise low stairway headroom?

[RamenRaven]

1st photo - view of stairs going down to the 1st floor

 

2nd photo - view of the stairs bending around as it reaches up to the 2nd floor

Edited September 11, 2022 by RamenRaven

[RamenRaven]

Annotated image

[Photoguy21]

11 hours ago, FrederikKitten said:

Looking at the internet and thinking out of box, leg shortening starts at $12,000. ????

I will do it for $10,000

[carlyai]

7 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

1st photo - view of stairs going down to the 1st floor

 

2nd photo - view of the stairs bending around as it reaches up to the 2nd floor

Nice house. ????

This design pretty typical of townhouse designs. I always wondered why that horizontal beam seems soooo huge. 

If you can't chip away enough render to give clearance, you may be able to get a structual engineer to assess the structure and narrow the beam size over the stairwell.

[Kwasaki]

Just now, RamenRaven said:

Annotated image

I would say that can be altered but without looking at the way it's constructed I'd have to see the drawing detail of the section of the house plans. 

 

If you really want the works done as said you need a structure engineer to schedule the alteration to the ready built structure.

[RamenRaven]

6 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I will do it for $10,000

 

Max they can do is to chip 12.5 cm off your leg bones. That means with the max option, I'd be 173 cm.

 

Still taller than the average Thai male but I'll be able to fit inside market stall umbrellas. ????

 

https://www.healthline.com/health/height-reduction-surgery

 

Quote

The maximum length a surgeon can remove from the femur is about 3 inches (7.5 centimeters) ; from the tibia, it's about 2 inches (5 centimeters).

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by RamenRaven

[RamenRaven]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

I would say that can be altered but without looking at the way it's constructed I'd have to see the drawing detail of the section of the house plans. 

 

If you really want the works done as said you need a structure engineer to schedule the alteration to the ready built structure.

I'll need to ask the seller to give me the plans.

 

Judging by the sound of the beam on top, it sounds like concrete.

Maybe it can be somehow filed off?

[Myran]

Bow your head slightly when walking up that part of the stairs. It takes zero effort and will become second nature within a month.

[RamenRaven]

5 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Nice house. ????

This design pretty typical of townhouse designs. I always wondered why that horizontal beam seems soooo huge. 

If you can't chip away enough render to give clearance, you may be able to get a structual engineer to assess the structure and narrow the beam size over the stairwell.

Thanks! There is no "perfect" house, and it's not so bad if you just need 2 things to fix (low kitchen sink and low stairway clearance).

My older rented house had a few 178 cm doors, 179 cm stairway clearance, and other annoyances, so 187 cm is not so bad, comparatively speaking, but I'd really like to stop worrying about bumping into things.

 

The problem is that I can't wear slippers or sandals going up this stairway due to the 187 cm clearance. The steps feel like concrete and can be really hard on your feet if you're frequently climbing them barefoot.

 

The seller said that large beams make the house strong and sturdy so that it can last many years.

 

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

I'll need to ask the seller to give me the plans.

 

Judging by the sound of the beam on top, it sounds like concrete.

Maybe it can be somehow filed off?

Maybe enough can be filed off as you say but without knowing what the actual construction of that section of the house is I wouldn't know.

[RamenRaven]

16 minutes ago, Myran said:

Bow your head slightly when walking up that part of the stairs. It takes zero effort and will become second nature within a month.

Another option is to file off the top of the step (i.e., tread) that's right under the big beam so that the step can be lower. Maybe 3 cm can be taken off?

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

Thanks! There is no "perfect" house, and it's not so bad if you just need 2 things to fix (low kitchen sink and low stairway 

The seller said that large beams make the house strong and sturdy so that it can last many years.

 

Low kitchen sink is not a problem just how proffesion the finished work would be. 

 

The seller having give the go ahead of construction will say all sorts of things other than he didn't think about the height of people today. 

There's many tall Thai people these days. 

[RamenRaven]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Low kitchen sink is not a problem just how proffesion the finished work would be. 

 

The seller having give the go ahead of construction will say all sorts of things other than he didn't think about the height of people today. 

There's many tall Thai people these days. 

I wouldn't say that the seller didn't think about the height of people today. I would say that he obviously did, but only 1-2 things slipped past the cracks, namely the kitchen counter and the stairway.

 

Everything in the house is built higher than in older Thai houses, except for the kitchen sink and stairway.

 

The bathroom sink is 38 inches or 96.5 cm (they are actually 36 inches or 91.5 cm max in the US), but the kitchen sink is 31 inches or 80 cm. For me, that means washing dishes in the bathroom sink. I was also pleasantly surprised at how the tops of the bathroom mirrors are all 210 cm. Perhaps the seller assumed that shorter Thai women would be doing the dishes, while their tall husbands and sons would be using the bathrooms.

 

The metal bar for hanging towels is 150 cm high. No bending over to reach for the towel unlike in other Thai homes.

 

The main electrical switchboard is high up on the wall. The actual switches are 180 cm above the floor.

 

After moving out from my older Thai-style house, I can now walk around my new house without even having to bend my neck (that is, except for the kitchen sink and stairs), and my posture feels much better now. In many Thai houses, many Western men would have to walk around hunched over to do just about anything.

 

Only 2 things need to be fixed in my house, but for older Thai houses, I'd have to do around a dozen alterations.

Edited September 11, 2022 by RamenRaven

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, itsari said:

Replace the staircase with a spiral staircase with the steps no more than 17cm.

You see many badly designed staircases in Thailand 

Your suggested hight is not OAP friendly. Before I designed our stair heights I researched the ones that were installed in many of the universities buildings I worked in, they are OAP friendly designs and the tread depth is 10cm.

The older citizens of the village have all been very complimentary on the ease of use of these. I have also installed a no step access ramp, so if I ever become infirm enough to be unable to use the stairs I will still have access to our house.

[Kwasaki]

19 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have also installed a no step access ramp, so if I ever become infirm enough to be unable to use the stairs I will still have access to our house.

I will buy a hand mega phone and tell people inside my house to shout lill lill  get here now and carry me in. ????????

[sometimewoodworker]

41 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I have also installed a no step access ramp, so if I ever become infirm enough to be unable to use the stairs I will still have access to our house.

I will buy a hand mega phone and tell people inside my house to shout lill lill  get here now and carry me in. ????????

Whilst I would buy an electrically powered form of transport to maintain my freedom of movement and avoid having to trouble people if I don’t have to.????????????

[foreverlomsak]

9 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

Toilet seats are 16 cm high (too high can mean a lot of straining).

sure you've measured right that's only just over 6 inches

[VocalNeal]

[transam]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Or..................

 

[RamenRaven]

Just asked a contractor. He said it's made of "faa" instead of "bun" and that he can take 3 cm off it.

 

What's "faa" (falling tone) and what's "bun/boon"? Can't find the words in Thai dictionaries.

[islandguy]

I had a similar intention and situation. I was very insistent on getting the stairs to have the width and rise the way I wanted (at the advice of a knowledgeable developer friend) and it was a challenge. I am also tall with long feet. When they finished it was almost but not quite tall enough at the the beam where the landing ends and first steps begin. The answer was to round the side of the beam (concrete beam with plaster coat) on the side where you are coming down. In this case that was enough to make a difference and pretty much eliminate the risk of hitting my head, partly because it was already close and partly because coming down your head starts higher as you are coming down to the beam. This build was supervised by a structural engineer who built everything very strongly, and he assured me that this rounding would not affect the strength of the beam adversely (plenty of big rebar in there). Getting the stairs to have a wide step and lower rise and using hardwood for the steps ended up making it one of the more beautiful parts of the house, very happy with it.

 

It’s hard to tell from the picture, but in the close up of the beam the side on the left  has a 90 degree profile and the side on the left is curved.

[islandguy]

Correction: Side on the right of picture is curved

[RamenRaven]

Looks like a traditional raised Thai house where the first floor is an open space. These kinds of houses are often built for people who aren't over 170 cm, and remodeling could be a challenge. Glad you successfully fixed it!

 

[islandguy]

Living in Hawaii I saw the benefits of this building design in tropics. When we designed the house (finished in 2019) we incorporated those concepts. Right now our neighbors farmland is flooding and some of our friends’ houses have water coming up alongside their houses so I am happy to have our living space raised up from ground level. The open bottom floor gets a lot of use, very practical. 

[carlyai]

21 hours ago, RamenRaven said:

Just asked a contractor. He said it's made of "faa" instead of "bun" and that he can take 3 cm off it.

 

What's "faa" (falling tone) and what's "bun/boon"? Can't find the words in Thai dictionaries.

'Bun' is concrete, "faa" is ceiling, I think if I remember right. So the 'faa' might be gyprock or board.

[Encid]

On 9/11/2022 at 12:44 PM, RamenRaven said:

Annotated image

That would be a Thai engineered standard 60cm deep reinforced concrete structural beam.

The only differences between them is the amount and sizing of the rebar inside, which is in turn dependent on the structural load that the beam has to support.

See the drawing below for some standard sizes as an example.

 

Depending on the concrete coverage of the rebar I don't think that you'd be able to shave any more than 2-2.5cm off it.

 

You can see in the details for the columns (C1, C2 etc.) that the concrete coverage should be 3 cm over the rebar, however this is approximate only and varies a lot.

The coverage is also further reduced by the steel wire that is used to tie the whole beam rebar arrangement together before the concrete pour.

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Encid
clarification

[Encid]

 

In any case the first thing I would be doing is to head down to the nearest MrDIY shop and buy a roll of this... a foam based safety edge guard.

 

It may not stop you from hitting your head on the edge of the beam (until your body's muscle memory starts working), but it will prevent any cuts or abrasions that draw blood.

[Encid]

On 9/11/2022 at 1:04 AM, RamenRaven said:

There are 18 steps total that are about 19-20 cm high each (irregular), not including the first and second level floors. Each step is 25 cm wide.

So is that 19 rises which would mean a floor level difference between the first and second levels of 3.8 metres? (19 rises x 20cm high)

 

If so, one fix would be to demolish the existing stair structure and build a new one, but it would be dependent on the area you have available at the landing on your second level.

 

From your photos you currently have 15 steps to an interim landing followed by a further 2 steps to the second level, making 19 rises in total.

 

You could build a new stairwell comprising 20 or 21 rises meaning that your step heights will be slightly less giving you more headroom at the overhead beam.

 

So, your new stairs could comprise 15 steps as before to an interim landing followed by a further 3-4 steps to your second level.

 

This as I said would be dependent on the area you have available at the landing on your second level, as it will increase the total run length of your stairs by 1 or 2 steps (25-50cm).

 

Another possibility for a new stairwell design and again dependent on the amount of area you have available at the landing on your second level, would be to change the stairway from an L-shape into a U-shape, by reversing the stair direction after the interim landing.

 

Perhaps if you take another photo (or two) from the second level with a wider angle we could see if you have the area needed to achieve either of these options?

[RamenRaven]

I'll go with chipping 2-3 cm off.

The seller just told me that's OK.

[bluejets]

Real builders work in mm.

Uni students, amateurs and TV shows work in cm.????