53 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

By who? Which country or countries will launch a nuclear attack on Ukraine’s behalf?

If he attacks a Western country what do you think they wil do ? Ask him not to do it again  ? 

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

No of course not,that is the worst scenario possible but the West can not afford to let him use Nuclear bombs.

He has gotten away with way too much,Crimea was the writing on the wall and he did get away with that one and his plans reach further then that.

I was being flippant. My apologies; it was totally misplaced.

 

I agree that the West has to put on a strong, united front and hope that will be enough to see Putin back down. 

 

The removal of Putin might be the best option although as others have warned, there are individuals lurking in the shadows who are potentially even more dangerous than Putin.

 

Worrying times.

I was stationed at a base in Scotland in the early sixties where all the aircraft were on 24 standby pointed at Russia including Vulcan bombers some of which were nuclear armed.

 

The world has not learned a damned thing has it?

7 minutes ago, Thailand said:

The world has not learned a damned thing has it?

Sure it has, they learned that using such weapons is futile.

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

i thought the threat was against Ukraine and the country isn’t in nato.
 

I’m not sure any country will launch retaliatory strikes if putin uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine. 
 

And to be honest, I believe they shouldn’t. 
 

If the unthinkable happens, I’m sorry but I can’t see MAD as the way to go. 

Actually the threat was against NATO countries not Ukraine

4 hours ago, proton said:

Bring it on Putin and see Moscow and Petersburg reduced to ash!

i hope so 

1 hour ago, jvs said:

No of course not,that is the worst scenario possible but the West can not afford to let him use Nuclear bombs.

He has gotten away with way too much,Crimea was the writing on the wall and he did get away with that one and his plans reach further then that.

I agree that putin has blood on his hands and is guilty of war crimes. However still cannot see any way that any country could launch nuclear missiles into Russia. The consequences of such action could be world wide Armageddon. 

Putin makes

categorical declaration to the whole nation of Russia that Russia is getting whipped ragged in the war of his own choosing.

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday ordered Russia's first mobilisation since World War Two, warning the West that if it continued what he called its "nuclear blackmail" that Moscow would respond with the might of all its vast arsenal.

 

"If the territorial integrity of our country is threatened, we will use all available means to protect our people - this is not a bluff," Putin said in a televised address to the nation, adding Russia had "lots of weapons to reply".

 

REUTERS

2022-09-21

russia can't properly equip the troops currently in the warzone. Where is the materiel going to come from for these additional 100000?

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

I would imagine that most of the western world who have nuclear capability have a bucket load of missiles aiming at various Russian targets and numerous deterrents to counter any counter strike  in the event  the despot goes completely unhinged.

The western world does have such capability but I cannot see them using them over Ukraine. The consequences would be catastrophic on a world wide scale. 

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

If he attacks a Western country what do you think they wil do ? Ask him not to do it again  ? 

If he attacks a western country I have no doubt that retaliation would follow and then we will all be <deleted>. 

41 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Actually the threat was against NATO countries not Ukraine

Then if he does that we are all <deleted>. 

23 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The western world does have such capability but I cannot see them using them over Ukraine. The consequences would be catastrophic on a world wide scale. 

Yes and no.

Practically speaking let's say Putin uses a tactical nuke in Ukraine. 

Then the west MUST respond in some way.

Then escalation to total nuclear war becomes not only possible but arguably likely.

This is what Putin is threatening and he knows it and the west knows it.

Which is why I think he's bluffing. He doesn't want to actually go there but he reckons the threat can save his own ass as well as creating a plausible victory in the war to officially annex new territories.

But it could easily backfire and then the world will be truly screwed.

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Then the west MUST respond in some way.

I disagree. I'm not defending putin or advocating he be allowed to escape the consequences of such an action, but I cannot comprehend how a retaliatory strike will lead to anything but world wide Armageddon. 

 

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Which is why I think he's bluffing. He doesn't want to actually go there

I hope you are right.

 

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But it could easily backfire and then the world will be truly screwed.

That is what I fear.

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I disagree. I'm not defending putin or advocating he be allowed to escape the consequences of such an action, but I cannot comprehend how a retaliatory strike will lead to anything but world wide Armageddon. 

 

I hope you are right.

 

That is what I fear.

You might think I meant that the west must respond with a nuke after the first Russian tactical nuke. Of course they wouldn't but they have already promised some kind of more severe response and I think they would definitely meet that. Then it would be in Putin's court. This is very very dangerous.

55 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

If he attacks a western country I have no doubt that retaliation would follow and then we will all be <deleted>. 

He won't at first. His first move would be a tactical nuke in Ukraine or chemical.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He won't at first. His first move would be a tactical nuke in Ukraine or chemical.

I believe he is unhinged enough to do that. I only hope someone in his inner circle will take decisive action and remove him from power before any such action is taken.

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I believe he is unhinged enough to do that. I only hope someone in his inner circle will take decisive action and remove him from power before any such action is taken.

Hopefully!

 

 

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You might think I meant that the west must respond with a nuke after the first Russian tactical nuke. Of course they wouldn't but they have already promised some kind of more severe response and I think they would definitely meet that. Then it would be in Putin's court. This is very very dangerous.

Yes, I'm afraid it is. But listening to his partial mobilisation speech today, let's remember he said he would take nothing off the table if Russia's sovereignty was breached. It isn't being. The devil is in the detail of his words.

Demented he might be, but who in the world actually thinks NATO would stand idly by if he starts throwing nukes around. Besides, the radioactive fallout is no respector of national borders, his included. And 70% of his people live in European Russia. 

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He won't at first. His first move would be a tactical nuke in Ukraine or chemical.

Chemical, conceivably. But even a 'small' tactical nuke is anything but small nowadays. It wouldn't help his objectives one bit.

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Chemical, conceivably. But even a 'small' tactical nuke is anything but small nowadays. It wouldn't help his objectives one bit.

Agreed.

He is bluffing. 

But he's playing with fire which is a major understatement.

Putin is just showing off in front of his own people, trying to pretend he's tough when it is becoming increasingly clear he's a loser, and likely unstable..

 

While many russians are likely behind the aggression, since they don't have access to factual information, the word has likely gotten out that russia is losing. At least 100,000 russian mothers have learned their sons are never coming home. Getting their butts kicked by tiny Ukraine shatters russias delusions about being a superpower, and since this is putin's war, the fingers will be pointed at him. russians always convinced themselves they were tough by remembering and embracing Stalingrad. This is an entirely different sort of thing. It isn't defense, it's aggression, and it is being carried out by guys who joined the russian military to get 3 square meals a day, not because they wanted to fight for mother russia.

 

putin used to waltz into international meetings late, pretending he is so important he just couldn't get to the venue on time. In his last few meetins, xi and modi kind of gave him a dressing down. He is a small man, likely insecure, and getting dissed by people he believes should feel inferior to him would not sit well.

 

So he comes out all bluster and smoke, both for international leaders as well as his own people. It's a bad way to try to show strength, because it reeks of desperation. He is wounded. That might make him dangerous, but it also makes him vulnerable. Oligarchs are losing everything from yachts to bank accounts to entry into places infinitely more entertaining than russia. They know it's putin's fault. A guy like Naryshkin, head of the SVR, who was dressed down by putin, is a clever guy who may have been making inroads with disaffected oligarchs and other leaders.

 

I suspect that if it looks as if putin really does intend to use tactical nukes against Ukraine, he will be toppled. Hopefully it happens before he unleashes the first one.

Street protests in Russia happening again.

 

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

i hope so 

As a Ukrainian Canadian I can tell you I have no use for any Russian!

nobody I have talked to in Canada, USA, Australia has any use for ANY Russian!

even the mental midget of Moscow wouldn’t be so stupid as to pull any <deleted> that he is threatening, nato will respond in a devastating manner!

russias military capabilities have already been drastically reduced, it’s been humiliating the way their military has performed!

hopefully he gets neutralized by his own people before he sends more to their deaths.

As Walker says, he’s full of it. It’s the only thing he can do—talk tat—to save face. He launches and his life and country are finished…. from his point of view, where’s the plus in that? Using ‘mere’ tactical nukes in Ukraine is not a thing; it’d kick it all off. He is bluffing, likely didn’t enjoy what Xi had to say, wants to grab what he can in Ukraine, negotiate a ceasefire and then declare his ‘Special Military Operation’ a success, With Zelensky saying they would not give up an inch of land, the fresh threat of nuke action and potentially hundreds of thousands more soldiers headed his way, he might just agree. 

3 hours ago, Northstar1 said:

As a Ukrainian Canadian I can tell you I have no use for any Russian!

nobody I have talked to in Canada, USA, Australia has any use for ANY Russian!

even the mental midget of Moscow wouldn’t be so stupid as to pull any <deleted> that he is threatening, nato will respond in a devastating manner!

russias military capabilities have already been drastically reduced, it’s been humiliating the way their military has performed!

hopefully he gets neutralized by his own people before he sends more to their deaths.

Understand the anger and passion but one can’t blame every Russian for actions of one nutter. Many are against this and if Navalny had his way Putin would be dog-meat and Russia a force for good. 

13 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

As Walker says, he’s full of it. It’s the only thing he can do—talk tat—to save face. He launches and his life and country are finished…. from his point of view, where’s the plus in that? Using ‘mere’ tactical nukes in Ukraine is not a thing; it’d kick it all off. He is bluffing, likely didn’t enjoy what Xi had to say, wants to grab what he can in Ukraine, negotiate a ceasefire and then declare his ‘Special Military Operation’ a success, With Zelensky saying they would not give up an inch of land, the fresh threat of nuke action and potentially hundreds of thousands more soldiers headed his way, he might just agree. 

We can't really know what Putin is exactly thinking but it is documented that he is obsessed with what happens to toppled dictators like Gaddafi. He's fighting not only for his own political power survival and legacy but also for his own life. How much does he really case beyond his own life which indeed is probably over if he is forced to give up power? We can't know and there is a big danger there. If he doesn't care at all, what's it to him if he blows up the world?

11 hours ago, jvs said:

Not necessarily on Ukrains behalf but if he dares to attack any NATO member they will have to retaliate and with overwhelming force i would think.

Lets hope it will not go that far,it will mean the end of life as we know it.

Which is probably the reason there has been no official mention that NATO getting directly involved is even possible.

While I have not heard of any such, I have no doubt that any such threat would be breaking news.

9 hours ago, steven100 said:

i hope so 

Then, IMO, you are willing to see Europe reduced to ash.

Is that what you really want?

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Then, IMO, you are willing to see Europe reduced to ash.

Is that what you really want?

I want Moscow reduced to ash ....