Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[josephbloggs]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:50 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Completely untrue , Boris Johnson was a Brexit supporter long before he became P.M , he was a prominent supporter of the Brexit campaign in 2016 and became PM in 2019 

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And he actually dropped his principals when it was clear there would be a leadership election and a Brexit view was more electable,. so that was around late 2016 / early 2017. 

Great man. A man of integrity.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/21/boris-johnson-joins-campaign-to-leave-eu

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, josephbloggs said:

I have, several times, and you come back with deflections and anecdotes about your supermarket. But since you asked:

 

1. Has poverty increased since Brexit?

2. Has food bank dependency increased 14% since pre-Covid (and pre-Ukraine war - the other get out) or not?

3. Have UK exports decreased since Brexit? How many exporters have gone out of business?

4. Has the removal of freedom of movement negatively impacted our children and younger generations?
5. Has there been one single positive of Brexit? Please name it and explain it. In real terms. Not just "in  the future it will be better" as this is nothing more than promising fabled "sunlit uplands". Give a concrete example of how we are better off. Not "removing EU tyranny", not "freeing ourselves of the shackles of faceless bureaucrats"; give a real, factual benefit of how anything has improved without using rhetoric.

6. Did the leave campaign lie and mislead the public? We can start with the bus in your earlier picture. 

Don't want to flood you with questions so we can start with those. I look forward to your promised responses.

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1 , I don't know about the UK poverty rates , but any increase since 2020 (Brexit) would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine 

   2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted .

 3 Again , I have no idea about UK exports

4 British people can no longer go and live in the E.U and also E.U citizens cannot now go and live in the U.K and this will benefit British kids with things like housing availability and the jobs market in the UK

5 More housing and jobs available in the U.K 

6 Both sides gave a biased opinion /prediction of how the UK would be effected by Brexit 

 

  Anymore questions ?

[placeholder]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:35 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

You have moved the goal posts , the question was whether the Guardian are biased or not and were not talking about whether the Guardian tells lies or not .

   You link shows that the Guardian are biased towards the Left 

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But the claims of bias are used as a reason for people not to trust the guardian even when it's reporting the facts.

[pagallim]

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:58 PM, stevenl said:

Maybe she is a racist, maybe not, I never made that claim. The claim I made is that racism also played a role in the Brexit vote.

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Are you aware that British people are of the same racial demographics as the rest of the E.U ?

  As British people and E.U citizens are of the same races , how could a vote to leave the E.U be considered to be racist?

[placeholder]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:02 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

   2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted .

 

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So the pandemic began when exactly?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/382695/uk-foodbank-users/

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:08 PM, placeholder said:

So the pandemic began when exactly?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/382695/uk-foodbank-users/

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Like, you are asking me when the pandemic began ?

Have you just arrived on planet Earth ?

Covid began in year 2020 !!!!!!!!!

[stevenl]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:06 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Are you aware that British people are of the same racial demographics as the rest of the E.U ?

  As British people and E.U citizens are of the same races , how could a vote to leave the E.U be considered to be racist?

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The last thing I'm going to say about this, your question doesn't even deserve any effort. Many similar links, 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/the-uncomfortable-question-was-the-brexit-vote-based-on-racism/

[placeholder]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:13 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Like, you are asking me when the pandemic began ?

Have you just arrived on planet Earth ?

Covid began in year 2020 !!!!!!!!!

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Maybe the Socratic method only works on Greeks.

To reconcile your assertion that the increase in food bank usage only began after the onset of the pandemic with the  evidence from the graph I presented,  would mean that the pandemic began in 2008 since food bank usage increased every year from that date until 2021-2022.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:17 PM, stevenl said:

The last thing I'm going to say about this, your question doesn't even deserve any effort. Many similar links, 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/the-uncomfortable-question-was-the-brexit-vote-based-on-racism/

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A report from an left leaning  American newspaper from 2016 ? Why cant you answer the question yourself and write your own words ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:20 PM, placeholder said:

Maybe the Socratic method only works on Greeks.

To reconcile your assertion that the increase in food bank usage only began after the onset of the pandemic with the  evidence from the graph I presented,  would mean that the pandemic began in 2008 since food bank usage increased every year from that date until 2021-2022.

 

 

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You seem to have misunderstood my post .

What I meant was that there was a decrease in food bank usage last year and that decrease last year was caused by a rise the pervious year which was due to Covid measures and lock-downs . 

   I also didn't say that food bank usage had only increased since the pandemic , you just imagined that I said that (or misunderstood what I meant)

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:02 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

   2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous years increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted .

 

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Edited my own post to remove the letter "s" from "increases" to the new word of *increase* to avoid confusion and I suppose that I should put the word *year* in-between previous and increase to avoid confusion 

[kwilco]

  On 12/29/2022 at 2:28 PM, puchooay said:

Then you should have not mentioned delays. You should only have talked about paperwork.

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so why is Kent now a lorry park, if not for delays?

[Bluespunk]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:22 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

A report from an left leaning  American newspaper from 2016 ? Why cant you answer the question yourself and write your own words ?

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Why not just try to refute the facts in the report rather than denigrating the source?

[kwilco]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:40 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Edited my own post to remove the letter "s" from "increases" to the new word of *increase* to avoid confusion and I suppose that I should put the word *year* in-between previous and increase to avoid confusion 

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In 2021/22 the Trussell Trust supplied 2.2 million three-day emergency food parcels – an increase of 14% compared to pre-pandemic levels in 2019/20. There was a decrease of 15% between the pandemic year of 2020/21 and 2021/22, but the general trend shows a gradual steady increase.18 Oct 2022 - House of Commons Library.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:50 PM, kwilco said:

In 2021/22 the Trussell Trust supplied 2.2 million three-day emergency food parcels – an increase of 14% compared to pre-pandemic levels in 2019/20. There was a decrease of 15% between the pandemic year of 2020/21 and 2021/22, but the general trend shows a gradual steady increase.18 Oct 2022 - House of Commons Library.

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Yes, 2.2 million food parcels  per year , works out at about 6000 food  parcels given out per day .

    Trussell Trust gave out 6000 food parcels per day in 2021/2022 , which would have been received by 2000 different people if they had one food parcel everyday , so 2000 people received food parcels 

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:44 PM, kwilco said:

so why is Kent now a lorry park, if not for delays?

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Do keep up with the times, those long lorry queues got sorted out and there's no longer any queues apart from when the ferry's don't sail across the channel

[puchooay]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:44 PM, kwilco said:

so why is Kent now a lorry park, if not for delays?

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Please keep up with the conversation. 

[nauseus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:58 PM, stevenl said:

Maybe she is a racist, maybe not, I never made that claim. The claim I made is that racism also played a role in the Brexit vote.

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Ah, Now it's also played a role.

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 5:40 AM, robblok said:

People who were pro Brexit most of them will keep defending their choice even though the numbers show your right. The UK is doing worse then other comparable EU countries. The only difference is Brexit. The facts are the facts, but no matter how much we repeat them the die hard Brexiteers wont change. The moderate ones and the ones willing to admit they were wrong (seen a more then a few) accept that that Brexit did more damage then good.

 

The others, don't waste your time it won't happen. But at least the truth is finally clear for those with an open mind.

 

But anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming cutting yourself off the biggest trading block near you and expecting the same privileges as before is not going to happen. BJ lied and lied and lied but people kept believing in him. 

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Given it's been hardly any time ( politically ) since brexit, and there has also been something called covid, plus inflation, why do the wannabeineuro posters keep claiming it's the end of the world that Britain isn't in the Eurozone anymore? It's like if they keep saying the same thing over and over it will make people believe they are right, and beg to be let back in. LOL.

One wonders how Britain managed before they joined the EEC if it's so bad. Come to that, one wonders how they managed to rule a large part of the world if they are so pathetic now.

 

In time all will be resolved for the benefit of the British people.

[Mac Mickmanus]

  On 12/29/2022 at 8:18 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Given it's been hardly any time ( politically ) since brexit, and there has also been something called covid, plus inflation, why do the wannabeineuro posters keep claiming it's the end of the world that Britain isn't in the Eurozone anymore? It's like if they keep saying the same thing over and over it will make people believe they are right, and beg to be let back in. LOL.

One wonders how Britain managed before they joined the EEC if it's so bad. Come to that, one wonders how they managed to rule a large part of the world if they are so pathetic now.

 

In time all will be resolved for the benefit of the British people.

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The Dutch miss us and want us to re-join , they still remember history

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 4:02 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

1 , I don't know about the UK poverty rates , but any increase since 2020 (Brexit) would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine 

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No point bringing up facts. It's all about Brexit, didn't you know?

 

Sarcasm alert for those devoid of sense of humour.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 2:48 PM, nauseus said:

Ah the R word again - slyly inserted to try to win the debate by silencing the other side, no doubt. How sad, boring and wrong. 

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Oh dear. In these sad times if one is losing an argument just introduce racism to make the other side shut up. Thankfully that tactic doesn't always work.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:23 PM, josephbloggs said:

RayC and others give eloquent responses and links, you just deflect, give worthless anecdotes and don't respond to any direct questions.

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LOL. I can certainly think of descriptions for their responses, but be assured eloquent is not among them.

As for deflections, surely you are not claiming that "your" side never does such?

"worthless anecdotes"

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 3:49 PM, josephbloggs said:

5. Has there been one single positive of Brexit? Please name it and explain it. In real terms. Not just "in  the future it will be better" as this is nothing more than promising fabled "sunlit uplands". Give a concrete example of how we are better off. Not "removing EU tyranny", not "freeing ourselves of the shackles of faceless bureaucrats"; give a real, factual benefit of how anything has improved without using rhetoric.

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Given that removing EU tyranny and freeing the British people from the shackles of faceless bureaucrats is the positive of Brexit, it's entirely relevant to the discussion.

It will take time to be "better off" so one should always be patient. As the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

Do you actually think that everything had to be "sunlit uplands" from day one? LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 1:35 PM, Kwasaki said:

The doom and gloom mob on this thread are obsessed with brexit and don't think anything else made Uk to struggle, so no point asking them to proof you wrong.

They will twist and dig up only one side to feed their obsession.

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Ain't that the truth!

[thaibeachlovers]

  On 12/29/2022 at 2:29 PM, nauseus said:

Do this...do that.

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They do like us to have to do their work for them!

[kwilco]

  On 12/29/2022 at 2:28 PM, puchooay said:

Then you should have not mentioned delays. You should only have talked about paperwork.

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so why is Kent now a lorry park, if not for delays?

[kwilco]

More Brexit problems for 2023  - The government has shown how hollow its promises were and how they only had one policy - get Brexit done" - they missed out "at any cost" and that they had no idea how to do this ir anything else.

Look at the promises they made about the "North" The North has been disproportionately ignored by the Brexit government despite the lies they promulgated about “levelling up”

 

As we enter recession. It is unlikely that the promises of the Government’s 2019 manifesto will ever be followed  through – no  proper investment and no increased devolution.- The Tories daren’t let go of control as they fear what will happen……

 

For businesses, any hopes of recovery from the pandemic,  growth and the promises of 'levelling up' coming to fruition are dashed.

 

 Instead, we will see the negative effects of Brexit worsened by the war in Ukraine, and a cost-of-living crisis that crippled the finances of many businesses and households up and down the country.

 

Due to the Brexit restraints placed on immigration, the past year has seen the UK’s skills shortage go from bad to worse. With historically low levels of unemployment, many companies are turning to other countries to address these issues. But previous EU workers ae not interested in facing the bureaucracy and hatred of the Brexiteer portion of the public.

No staff availability is an ongoing problem and it isn’t going away this coming year  –

In international trade, the government is failing targets left right and centre; it has missed its target for securing post-Brexit trade agreements, as figures show a 15% fall in the number of UK exporters.

 

In the 2019 election the Brexiteers promised to get agreements covering 80% of UK trade by the end of this year, the figures show it will be just 63%. The Japanese deal was criticised after government figures showed exports in UK goods and services had actually fallen to that country in the past year. (Dept International Trade)

 

Former Environment Secretary George Eustice MP in Cornwall also criticised the Australia deal, saying it was "not actually a very good deal for the UK".

 

UK is limping into the new year and unlikely the rest of Europe, on top of everything, it is hobbled by Brexit.