“Formula for Peace” to end Russia-Ukraine conflicts

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So you're the Chosen One who can really see what's happening? It is to laugh.

Is not the the chosen one allowed to have an opinion and quote from Winston Churchill.

[placeholder]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Is not the the chosen one allowed to have an opinion and quote from Winston Churchill.

So are unchosen ones. Got another irrelevant reply?

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What by saying that Putin could be a man driven to desperation.

Driven to desperation by his own actions. Should we reward such behavior? 

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

So are unchosen ones. Got another irrelevant reply?

Threads about formula for peace. 

Negotiations are pointless there is no formula at this moment.

[mikebike]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

My feeling is that most Westerners are so thoroughly propagandized that the would welcome nuclear war against Russia (and China, North Korea, Syria, Yeman, and everyone the West literally hates)

Who do you hang out with, and what media are you consuming to bring you to that conclusion? 

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

My feeling is that most Westerners are so thoroughly propagandized that the would welcome nuclear war against Russia (and China, North Korea, Syria, Yeman, and everyone the West literally hates) even if it led to their own destruction.

Myself? 

The only out I see involves nukes first launched by the West.  Other than that - I don't care
Too many Westerners are warmongers. 

Stand by to be vilified. ????

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Driven to desperation by his own actions. Should we reward such behavior? 

No good twisting what Churchill said, let it be a warning or disregard it. Up to you. 

[candide]

20 minutes ago, connda said:

My feeling is that most Westerners are so thoroughly propagandized that the would welcome nuclear war against Russia (and China, North Korea, Syria, Yeman, and everyone the West literally hates) even if it led to their own destruction.

Myself? 

The only out I see involves nukes first launched by the West.  Other than that - I don't care
Too many Westerners are warmongers. 

B.S.! Who's making nuclear threats? Not Western countries.

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What by saying that Putin could be a man driven to desperation.

 

Let's everybody go Gunho that's the way.

I'm saying there is no good choice but to help Ukraine defeat Russia ASAP.. Not to be ruled by a monster's threats.

[RichardColeman]

This war is going to continue forever - or atleast until the death of vile Putin and maybe not even then - Russia is quite simply NOT going to agree to pay back all the reparations and rebuilding costs that they are racking up.

 

If it was me, I;d add a 20% rebuild tax on ALL Russian sales along with a new 10% import tax on all Chinese goods if they start supplying Russia with arms 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

This war is going to continue forever - or atleast until the death of vile Putin and maybe not even then - Russia is quite simply NOT going to agree to pay back all the reparations and rebuilding costs that they are racking up.

 

If it was me, I;d add a 20% rebuild tax on ALL Russian sales along with a new 10% import tax on all Chinese goods if they start supplying Russia with arms 

It certainly does have the potential to be a hundred years war but there is an opportunity for Ukraine to end it this year and yes its a given that Putin must be very gone for that.

[Tug]

2 hours ago, connda said:

My feeling is that most Westerners are so thoroughly propagandized that the would welcome nuclear war against Russia (and China, North Korea, Syria, Yeman, and everyone the West literally hates) even if it led to their own destruction.

Myself? 

The only out I see involves nukes first launched by the West.  Other than that - I don't care
Too many Westerners are warmongers. 

Who started this war of conquest?here’s some clues it wasent nato nor Ukraine or the United States it was Putin and Putin alone who keeps rattling the nuclear saber it’s Putin and Putin alone.NO ONE wants or would welcome nuclear war that’s insane and false the west (democracy’s) want Russia out of Ukraine it’s as simple as that they Invaded their neighbor in a quest to conquer and subjugate their neighbor no more no less just like the Germans tryed in the late 30s the world ain’t having it

[heybruce]

15 hours ago, pegman said:

It started when US State Dept players like neo-Con Victoria Nuland  orchestrated the coup d'état in Kyiv in February 2014. This will go on as long as there is a single Ukrainian left to fight Biden's proxy war. Murderous thug Putin is a willing participant in this tragedy. A pox on them both.

Every time someone posts nonsense stating that the US is responsible for the revolt in 2014 I ask for credible sources.  None has ever been provided.  I'm confident you won't provide any either.

[pegman]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It certainly does have the potential to be a hundred years war but there is an opportunity for Ukraine to end it this year and yes its a given that Putin must be very gone for that.

The real winner is:

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Emster23 said:

Here are the steps towards peace that were omitted from abbreviated post

1. Radiation and nuclear security;
2. Food security;
3. Energy security;
4. Release of all deportees;
5. Restoration of Ukraine’s territorial integrity, respect for UN Charter;
6. Total withdrawal of all russian troops from all of Ukraine;
7. Punishment for war crimes;
8. Protection for the environment, stopping russia’s ecocide in Ukraine;
9. New security architecture and security guarantees for Ukraine;
10. Signing of peace treaty.

To get there, at a minimum, Putin has to go. Anyone up for the job?

Don't hold your breath on

5

6

7

9

 

Agree about Putin, but does anyone think another will not continue the fight? He's not running the government all by himself.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, connda said:

The only out I see involves nukes first launched by the West. 

Seriously? Seems you forget about MAD.

No matter which side launches first, we all suffer or die.

[pegman]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Every time someone posts nonsense stating that the US is responsible for the revolt in 2014 I ask for credible sources.  None has ever been provided.  I'm confident you won't provide any either.

The transcript from Nuland wiretap before the Kyiv coup. That neo-Con sound like an uninterested bystander? As she wasn't when she worked for Chaney and fed you Yanks the WMD koolaid to drink while eating your Freedom Fries.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26089450

 

Here is a  preemptive response to any other denial of American imperialism in the last hundred years.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by pegman

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, mikebike said:

Driven to desperation by his own actions. Should we reward such behavior? 

In the real world that's not always an option. Mao and Stalin died in bed, not having been deposed. Bad guys don't always lose.

[pegman]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In the real world that's not always an option. Mao and Stalin died in bed, not having been deposed. Bad guys don't always lose.

Bush and Chaney are still walking around. Chaney has even outlived the friend he shot in the face.

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, pegman said:

The real winner is:

 

 

I didn't watch the whole 12 minutes of it, but it's what I've been saying all along- the winners are the weapons manufacturers and their shareholders.

Even if Ukraine forces the Russians to stop and leave, Ukraine is the biggest loser with their dead and the destruction of their infrastucture. Short of NATO suddenly going MAD and attacking Russia, Russia hasn't been devastated, and once the dead are buried they'll re arm and move on.

Western arms manufacturers will get even richer resupplying depleted ammunition supplies and using the war experience will design even better machines to kill people.

However, perhaps the biggest winners will be the contractors that rebuild Ukraine with billions in western "aid" ( taxpayer's money ).

 

 

[internationalism]

17 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not true, there were no peace talks progressing nicely. In fact Putin refused just as he invaded:

 

Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/

 

Then just over 3 weeks into the war Putin refused again

 

Zelensky: We won't join NATO if that brings peace

https://nypost.com/2022/03/22/zelensky-we-wont-join-nato-if-that-brings-peace/

 

 

sorry for quoting you.

But you gave links and titles, but content of those articles is contradictory to your claim.

Looks like you haven't read those articles.

 

from the first link:

"Even if Putin had acquiesced to Kozak's plan, it remains uncertain if the war would have ended. Reuters was unable to verify independently that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy or senior officials in his government were committed to the deal."

The rest of info in that article is based on many third hand and anonymous sources, on level of gossip, who are sometimes contradicting each other. Their statements are not reliable on their own. That's why Reuter tried to confirm with the top ukrainian authorities, but they failed to reply. Why they did not reply?  Kozak has also failed to reply, 

 

from the second link:

"Zelensky said he would still demand complete withdrawal of Russian forces from his country and international commitments to Ukraine’s security. 

Meanwhile, the Kremlin said talks with Ukraine are moving “much more slowly and less substantively than we would like,” according to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitri Peskov in his daily call with reporters."

That article is from 22.03, so pertains to Bennett's talks in Turkey. Yet before they came to fruition 10 days later.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, internationalism said:

sorry for quoting you.

But you gave links and titles, but content of those articles is contradictory to your claim.

Looks like you haven't read those articles.

 

from the first link:

"Even if Putin had acquiesced to Kozak's plan, it remains uncertain if the war would have ended. Reuters was unable to verify independently that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy or senior officials in his government were committed to the deal."

The rest of info in that article is based on many third hand and anonymous sources, on level of gossip, who are sometimes contradicting each other. Their statements are not reliable on their own. That's why Reuter tried to confirm with the top ukrainian authorities, but they failed to reply. Why they did not reply?  Kozak has also failed to reply, 

 

from the second link:

"Zelensky said he would still demand complete withdrawal of Russian forces from his country and international commitments to Ukraine’s security. 

Meanwhile, the Kremlin said talks with Ukraine are moving “much more slowly and less substantively than we would like,” according to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitri Peskov in his daily call with reporters."

That article is from 22.03, so pertains to Bennett's talks in Turkey. Yet before they came to fruition 10 days later.

That's how it works in a discussion, you quote. Those are not my claims, they are the direct headlines of the articles claims. Zelensky did offer to not join Nato that is reported in multiple outlets as well as the one I quoted.

 

First Link:

"But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped."

 

Second Link:

"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday he is prepared to pledge that Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO, in a bid to broker a peace deal with Russia."

 

Obviously it would be expected as part of the deal that Russia withdraw its forces..................jeez

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Hamus Yaigh]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

However, perhaps the biggest winners will be the contractors that rebuild Ukraine with billions in western "aid" ( taxpayer's money ).

It won't be 'western' aid per se. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/18/unthinkable-that-russia-does-not-pay-for-ukraines-reconstruction-eu-chief-says.html

[internationalism]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

That's how it works in a discussion, you quote. Those are not my claims, they are the direct headlines of the articles claims. Zelensky did offer to not join Nato that is reported in multiple outlets as well as the one I quoted.

 

First Link:

"But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped."

 

Second Link:

"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday he is prepared to pledge that Ukraine wouldn’t join NATO, in a bid to broker a peace deal with Russia."

 

Obviously it would be expected as part of the deal that Russia withdraw its forces..................jeez

 

but Kozak's story is still not confirmed by ukraine or by himself. All just 3rd hand anonymous gossips.

 

Talks in Turkey were progressing from 22.02 from time of this article, to the beginning of April, when they were torpedoed by Johnsonn. Under pressure Zelensky has changed his mind, with promise of more advanced armaments from NATO. 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, internationalism said:

but Kozak's story is still not confirmed by ukraine or by himself. All just 3rd hand anonymous gossips.

 

Talks in Turkey were progressing from 22.02 from time of this article, to the beginning of April, when they were torpedoed by Johnsonn. Under pressure Zelensky has changed his mind, with promise of more advanced armaments from NATO. 

Don't you think its a little hypocritical when the link you provide that Boris stalled the peace talks contains no named source?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Don't you think its a little hypocritical when the link you provide that Boris stalled the peace talks contains no named source?

Anyway, as cited above, in the wake of the Russian massacre of civilians in Bucha, negotiations were no longer feasible.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Does anybody (beside you) still believe that?

Please share with us any evidence that the Russian slaughter of civilians in Bucha is anywhere close to being universally disbelieved.  

Once again, you need reminding of the rule posted on the landing page.

" Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

You've made some foul posts in this forum. But this one is downright vile.

 

Bucha killings: Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims 

A satellite image of Bucha in Ukraine appears to show bodies lying in the street nearly two weeks before the Russians left the town.

The image from 19 March, first reported by the New York Times and confirmed by the BBC, directly contradicts Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov's claim that footage of bodies in Bucha, that has emerged in recent days, was "staged" after the Russians withdrew.

The satellite image shows objects that appear to be bodies in the exact locations where they were subsequently found by Ukrainian forces when they regained control of the town north of Kyiv.

https://aseannow.com/forum/158-world-news/

[Rimmer]

A post citing an unapproved source also replies has been removed

[KhunLA]

The OP's op-ed is the west's spin on the conflict.   Need to go a couple years earlier, when the regime change was planned & executed by the west.

 

To the title, it seems the only party that wants to end the conflict, which could have been avoided is RU.

 

Just my opinion from my readings and research of non-MSM BS.

This may enlighten some folks:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

 

Zelensky, a comedian/actor, seems the appropriate puppet to play the role, and could barely speak Ukrainian when 'elected' to his position.  What a joke.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

The OP's op-ed is the west's spin on the conflict.   Need to go a couple years earlier, when the regime change was planned & executed by the west.

 

To the title, it seems the only party that wants to end the conflict, which could have been avoided is RU.

 

Just my opinion from my readings and research of non-MSM BS.

This may enlighten some folks:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

 

Zelensky, a comedian/actor, seems the appropriate puppet to play the role, and could barely speak Ukrainian when 'elected' to his position.  What a joke.

Do you understand that the reason Zelensky could barely speak Ukrainian is because he is a native Russian speaker? Most people would understand that only further strengthens the integrity of his stance against the Russians.