Rule on running engine while refueling

[Yellowtail]

  On 3/13/2023 at 4:16 AM, VocalNeal said:

Many cars have the filler cap release inside the car. If having the engine running while refuelling is a problem then auto manufacturers would have an interlock so you cannot open the fuel filler if the engine is running. (in a similar way that a motorcycle will stop if you lower the sidestand)

This is not implemented maybe because the vast majority of drivers in the world refuel their own vehicle, so they get out of the car and don't leave the engine running. 

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Nice, now every new car will have to have a $1,000 interlock of the cap

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:08 AM, Ralf001 said:

  On 3/13/2023 at 4:57 AM, itsari said:

Turn off the engine . END OFF

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Why ?

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#1 - because they ask you to do so. 

#2 - because the industry believes there to be a risk of ignition if you leave your engine running while filling with petrol.

 

Why do you think you know better than the industry ?

Do you think they make a pointless regulation for the sake of it ?

[itsari]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:15 AM, richard_smith237 said:

#1 - because they ask you to do so. 

#2 - because the industry believes there to be a risk of ignition if you leave your engine running while filling with petrol.

 

Why do you think you know better than the industry ?

Do you think they make a pointless regulation for the sake of it ?

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Agree 100 percent

[Liverpool Lou]

  On 3/13/2023 at 4:36 AM, richard_smith237 said:

  On 3/12/2023 at 1:54 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

  On 3/12/2023 at 1:51 PM, itsari said:

Wrong again sir , phones are banned in service stations.

What are you on?

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No, there's no law about it, they are not "banned".   If they were banned this debate would not be able to exist!   What are you on?

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Typical ‘LL’ arguing in the innate intricacies of a discussion... Phones ARE banned while filling up at petrol stations world wide.... You know exactly what is meant by that.

 

They are banned by the companies that own the filling stations 

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Typical response to an absolutely accurate comment of mine.

 

So where do you leave your phone when you fill up, then, if they are banned?    Phones are not banned from petrol stations, no one will ever be prevented from entering a petrol station with a phone in their vehicle, hand or pocket, just as running engines aren't banned from forecourts, either.

[Ralf001]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:15 AM, richard_smith237 said:

#1 - because they ask you to do so. 

#2 - because the industry believes there to be a risk of ignition if you leave your engine running while filling with petrol.

 

Why do you think you know better than the industry ?

Do you think they make a pointless regulation for the sake of it ?

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I don't recall ever being asked to turn off my engine.

[Ralf001]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:17 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Typical response to an absolutely accurate comment of mine.

 

So where do you leave your phone when you fill up, then, if they are banned?    Phones are not banned from petrol stations, no one will ever be prevented from entering a petrol station with a phone in their vehicle, hand or pocket, just as running engines aren't banned from forecourts, either.

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isn't using a mobile phone whilst re-fuelling frowned upon ?

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:12 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

 I didn't say that, I am doubting the rationale of the reasons, though.  If anyone has any conclusively proven evidence to the contrary, I'm more than happy to get stuck into my humble pie!

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You are doubting the rational because you don’t believe the risks, or don’t understand the risk. 

 

Many of us simply do not know what we do not know... i.e. there is a vast amount of knowledge out there that we do not know exists. 

 

In these examples there is no harm in accepting what the ‘experts’ suggest, industry world wide certainly accepts what the ‘experts’ suggest and make it policy. 

 

Hence, in industry where there may be an environment which could become dangerous measures are put in place. In this case the risk is extremely minimal, yet petrol station forecourts are not completely free of risk, this risk has been evaluated vs the inconvenience of preventative measures.  Its not inconvenient for us not to use a phone or turn off our engines ‘While’ filling our vehicles with petrol, (some may argue its mild inconvenient, it would be argued that they are selfish).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

  On 3/13/2023 at 4:53 AM, dingdongrb said:

'No smog here' - Says the tourist from Delhi.

 

'They call those mountains?' - Say the tourist from Innsbruk

 

Everything in life has it's relevancy. 

 

As a youth back then with good health, the fumes were not noticeable enough to make me complain and remember. Yes, I am one of them......  ????

 

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Good, if you didn't notice.  Park the car in the garage, running, close the door have seat and crack open a beer .... ENJOY.

[Yellowtail]

I think it worth noting that people sitting inside the vehicle is being fueled, is not fueling the vehicle. The person outside the vehicle operating the pump is the one fueling the vehicle. 

 

Why would laws (if any) regarding not using a phone while fueling would not apply to people sitting inside the vehicle. 

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:22 AM, Ralf001 said:

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:17 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Typical response to an absolutely accurate comment of mine.

 

So where do you leave your phone when you fill up, then, if they are banned?    Phones are not banned from petrol stations, no one will ever be prevented from entering a petrol station with a phone in their vehicle, hand or pocket, just as running engines aren't banned from forecourts, either.

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isn't using a mobile phone whilst re-fuelling frowned upon ?

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LL is getting hung up on semantics again... 

 

He seems to think that when we write ‘banned’, ‘Prohibited’, ‘not permitted’ he makes the jump to wannabe lawyer and argues legality (such policies can be enforced by businesses without them being law).

 

The use of cell phones and Keeping your vehicle running while filling up with Petrol / Gas at a filling station is ’not permitted’ in pretty much *every filling station worldwide

 

 

 

*Given LL’s character, he is likely to argue this specific detail and ask for proof that it is every filling station world wide, or argue that he went to one where there were no signs etc !!!...   

 

[NanLaew]

  On 3/12/2023 at 6:28 AM, richard_smith237 said:

IMO... just like many (most) other rules... they know exactly, they just don’t care because no-one else does.

Thailand is very ‘conformist’ in that everyone only follows the rules everyone else follows, they also only break the rules everyone else breaks !!!...   

 

 

There are signs all over every Petrol / Gas station.... they also put a small sign on the bonnet / hood of your car which tells you to...  turn off your car, no smoking, no phone use.... So, I’m not so sure many here in Thailand ‘don’t know the rule’... I suspect that its more common that they just don’t care. 

 

 

But.. as you pointed out... one day a disaster will happen, there will be media outrage and everyone will blame everyone else for not turning off their car.

 

Just as everyone was outspoken, there was media outrage about people not stopping at pedestrian crossings (Dr killed), but everyone is blaming everyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

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Good points well made. It's the 'up to you' mindset.

 

Thailand is all about being reactive and less about proactive. The placing of the warning placard on the hood/bonnet before pumping gas is nothing more than a box-checking exercise by the pump station owners. If a driver ignores it, leaves the engine running and something does catch fire or blow up, the pump station owner's insurance liabilities will be limited and if the dek pump isn't incinerated, he/she will cop all the blame.

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:31 AM, Yellowtail said:

I think it worth noting that people sitting inside the vehicle is being fueled, is not fueling the vehicle. The person outside the vehicle operating the pump is the one fueling the vehicle. 

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Agreed, the risk is ‘when filling’... 

 

There is the additional risk when filling of a person ‘discharging static electricity’ which is likely how a number of filling station fires are started, hence the advice that when you get out of your vehicle, before using the pump touch something metal.

 

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:31 AM, Yellowtail said:

Why would laws (if any) regarding not using a phone while fueling would not apply to people sitting inside the vehicle. 

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If the intricacies were signposted the sign would too large and too ‘busy’...  Its simpler to place signage that states “No Phone Use”...   “Turn off Engine”.... and of course “No Smoking”... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:38 AM, NanLaew said:

Good points well made. It's the 'up to you' mindset.

 

Thailand is all about being reactive and less about proactive. The placing of the warning placard on the hood/bonnet before pumping gas is nothing more than a box-checking exercise by the pump station owners. If a driver ignores it, leaves the engine running and something does catch fire or blow up, the pump station owner's insurance liabilities will be limited and if the dek pump isn't incinerated, he/she will cop all the blame.

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Completely agree, a lot of the policies and signage are for liability purposes.

 

I think some people recognise this and object to being told what to just because a company wants to protect itself from any liability.  

 

Then there are the self proclaimed free thinkers who just don’t like being told what to do and want to argue or question any form of request, instruction, guidance or policy without the understanding that en-masse the general public is stupid and needs to be told what to do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:21 AM, Ralf001 said:

I don't recall ever being asked to turn off my engine.

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Absolute tosh....    Are you also going to claim you have never been asked not to smoke at a petrol station forecourt too ???

 

 

Pretty much every time you go to a petrol station a sign is placed on the bonnet / hood of your car !!...

Pretty much every time you go to a petrol station there are signs everywhere. 

 

... you are lying through your teeth, are utterly blind or just outright ignorant if you have not noticed this. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:22 AM, Ralf001 said:

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:17 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Typical response to an absolutely accurate comment of mine.

 

So where do you leave your phone when you fill up, then, if they are banned?    Phones are not banned from petrol stations, no one will ever be prevented from entering a petrol station with a phone in their vehicle, hand or pocket, just as running engines aren't banned from forecourts, either.

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isn't using a mobile phone whilst re-fuelling frowned upon ?

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For the most part using a phone whilst in the process of refuelling is banned by the companies who run / own the forecourt, as is leaving your vehicle running. 

 

 

[jvs]

  On 3/12/2023 at 8:58 AM, KannikaP said:

Whenever I re-fuel, the attendant puts a large card on my bonnet saying which fuel they are putting in and icons & words in Thai & English saying turn engine off, no phone and no smoking.

The attendant should refuse to re-fuel if those rules are not adhered to.

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A few years ago it was mandatory for cars and trucks to be turned off before

refueling.That rule lasted about one week, a so called high so decided to slap the attendant who asked him to shut down his engine.

And that was that!

[KannikaP]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:57 AM, richard_smith237 said:

For the most part using a phone whilst in the process of refuelling is banned by the companies who run / own the forecourt, as is leaving your vehicle running. 

 

 

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Just been to a PTT station. THREE of the attendants who were not serving were sitting right next to the pumps using their phones .  555

[dingdongrb]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:30 AM, KhunLA said:

Good, if you didn't notice.  Park the car in the garage, running, close the door have seat and crack open a beer .... ENJOY.

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Hmmmmm....  Maybe that was your issue. You hung out relentlessly in that little shanty they had for the 'pump jockeys' who whined because it was 'too cold' out. Then the exhaust would fill that shanty as you stayed snug and warm. 

 

NOTE: I hear Hong Kong has some good accommodation deals right now. You can get an economy room on the 46th floor with an indoor charcoal BBQ thrown in for free.

[Ralf001]

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:53 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Absolute tosh....    Are you also going to claim you have never been asked not to smoke at a petrol station forecourt too ???

 

 

Pretty much every time you go to a petrol station a sign is placed on the bonnet / hood of your car !!...

Pretty much every time you go to a petrol station there are signs everywhere. 

 

... you are lying through your teeth, are utterly blind or just outright ignorant if you have not noticed this. 

 

 

 

 

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Ahhh moving the goal posts I see... from someone "telling me" to "there is a sign placed on bonnet".

 

To answer your original claim, I have never had someone physically come up to me and tell me to not smoke/turn off vehicle/do not use mobile phone.

 

FWIW, they place no signs on the bonnet of my vehicles, they scratch the paint and pump chump is told not to place them on the bonnet.

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 6:29 AM, Ralf001 said:

Ahhh moving the goal posts I see... from someone "telling me" to "there is a sign placed on bonnet".

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With the outstandingly utter stupidity of that response you have outed yourself as someone simply not worth bothering to engage with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 6:12 AM, KannikaP said:

  On 3/13/2023 at 5:57 AM, richard_smith237 said:

For the most part using a phone whilst in the process of refuelling is banned by the companies who run / own the forecourt, as is leaving your vehicle running. 

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Just been to a PTT station. THREE of the attendants who were not serving were sitting right next to the pumps using their phones .  555

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What can you say... eh... other than ‘this is Thailand’.... ????

 

They probably ride home helmet less, unlicensed, on uninsured vehicles and jump a handful of red lights while they’re at it... Of course, while still on their phones !!!! 

 

 

[SpaceKadet]

I never shut down the engine while fueling up in Saudi, and never shut it down here.

How can a running engine cause an explosion? All urban myths...

 

There was a documentary made some times ago dispelling movie myths. One of them was that throwing a burning cigarette on the gasoline would ignite it. Whatever they tried, they could not ignite the gasoline, not even with a cigar. The temperature of a smoldering tobacco is just too low.

Goes into the same category as when there is a car crash, the car would explode... as seen in all the American movies.

Don't buy American cars!!!

 

To ignite gasoline fumes you need to achieve the air–fuel ratio of about 14.7:1. This is very unlikely to happen in open air environment.

 

The same thing about the cellphone usage. There was some urban myth that using a cellphone in a gas station would cause arcing and cause and explosion. If that was a case, I would be worrying more about killing my brain cells rather than causing an explosion. What about those cell towers everywhere pumping out watts of microwaves everywhere?

 

Anybody can point to a reliable source describing an explosion caused by a running engine, smoking, or using a cell phone while fueling up?

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 6:10 AM, jvs said:

A few years ago it was mandatory for cars and trucks to be turned off before

refueling.That rule lasted about one week, a so called high so decided to slap the attendant who asked him to shut down his engine.

And that was that!

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Its still mandatory....  except no one follows these mandatory regulations unless everyone else follows them...  

[Ralf001]

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:02 AM, richard_smith237 said:

With the outstandingly utter stupidity of that response you have outed yourself as someone simply not worth bothering to engage with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry for calling you out on your <deleted>.

[Ralf001]

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:04 AM, SpaceKadet said:

I never shut down the engine while fueling up in Saudi, and never shut it down here.

How can a running engine cause an explosion? All urban myths...

 

There was a documentary made some times ago dispelling movie myths. One of them was that throwing a burning cigarette on the gasoline would ignite it. Whatever they tried, they could not ignite the gasoline, not even with a cigar. The temperature of a smoldering tobacco is just too low.

Goes into the same category as when there is a car crash, the car would explode... as seen in all the American movies.

Don't buy American cars!!!

 

To ignite gasoline fumes you need to achieve the air–fuel ratio of about 14.7:1. This is very unlikely to happen in open air environment.

 

The same thing about the cellphone usage. There was some urban myth that using a cellphone in a gas station would cause arcing and cause and explosion. If that was a case, I would be worrying more about killing my brain cells rather than causing an explosion. What about those cell towers everywhere pumping out watts of microwaves everywhere?

 

Anybody can point to a reliable source describing an explosion caused by a running engine, smoking, or using a cell phone while fueling up?

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many years ago, A cousin received 3rd degree burns to 60% of his body when an open fuel can sitting next to the exhaust tip of the motorbike he was attempting to start caused it to ignite and explode.

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:04 AM, SpaceKadet said:

I never shut down the engine while fueling up in Saudi, and never shut it down here.

How can a running engine cause an explosion? All urban myths...

 

There was a documentary made some times ago dispelling movie myths. One of them was that throwing a burning cigarette on the gasoline would ignite it. Whatever they tried, they could not ignite the gasoline, not even with a cigar. The temperature of a smoldering tobacco is just too low.

Goes into the same category as when there is a car crash, the car would explode... as seen in all the American movies.

Don't buy American cars!!!

 

To ignite gasoline fumes you need to achieve the air–fuel ratio of about 14.7:1. This is very unlikely to happen in open air environment.

 

The same thing about the cellphone usage. There was some urban myth that using a cellphone in a gas station would cause arcing and cause and explosion. If that was a case, I would be worrying more about killing my brain cells rather than causing an explosion. What about those cell towers everywhere pumping out watts of microwaves everywhere?

 

Anybody can point to a reliable source describing an explosion caused by a running engine, smoking, or using a cell phone while fueling up?

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You are implying its perfectly safe to smoke while refuelling you car then ?

erm.... 

 

Now.. what about the idiots who’d ‘light’ the cigarette ????....  this is why no smoking is allowed. 

 

 

 

[SpaceKadet]

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:13 AM, richard_smith237 said:

You are implying its perfectly safe to smoke while refuelling you car then ?

erm.... 

 

Now.. what about the idiots who’d ‘light’ the cigarette ????....  this is why no smoking is allowed. 

 

 

 

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Try to read the thing about air/fuel ratio and the ignition temperature.

How smoking in the car would cause an explosion outside?

[tomazbodner]

No open fire BBQ right next to the pumps like Soi Rangnam in Pratunam? Disgraceful!

[richard_smith237]

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:18 AM, SpaceKadet said:

  On 3/13/2023 at 7:13 AM, richard_smith237 said:

You are implying its perfectly safe to smoke while refuelling you car then ?

erm.... 

 

Now.. what about the idiots who’d ‘light’ the cigarette ????....  this is why no smoking is allowed. 

 

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Try to read the thing about air/fuel ratio and the ignition temperature.

How smoking in the car would cause an explosion outside?

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How do *you refuel the car while smoking inside the car ??

 

We are perhaps talking cross purposes....  

- smoking inside the car, no risk. 

- someone who may light a cigarette while refuelling = an utter danger to himself and society. 

 

People are stupid - the signs are there to cater to the lowest common denominator and protect the companies on whose properties they may carry out outrageously stupid acts. 

 

 

 

*yes, there are attendants who fill our cars... the rules exist for everyone, you, I, workers.

In situations such as this is far simpler to have ‘blanket rules’.... the so call free thinkers like to question such rules but they never seem to consider the rules are not just for them, but the lowest and most utterly stupid people society has to offer.

 

So... the no smoking sign is not really for you in the car, its for the feckless fool who’d turn up on his knackered old motorcycle and without thinking decide to ‘light up’ while standing next to his motorcycle being refuelled. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nrasmussen]

Back in the days of the infancy of mobile phones I worked at a company manufacturing petrol station equipment, including pumps.

 

I seem to remember that at the time there was some concern that mobile phones might interfere with the electronics in the pumps, potentially causing wrong measurements of the amount of dispensed fuel. It's possible that that's the real reason why mobile phone use was discouraged during filling and that it was just found easier to attain compliance if the public instead was told that there would be danger of explosion.