Not working, just helping the wife

[lordmullin]

As you probably guessed from the title, this is about what I'm allowed to do if my wife buys a business.

I'm 57 and on a married visa.

If my wife buys a small resort (a few bungalows around a pool) where would I stand, legally, regarding 'helping out around the place'?

Maybe checking guests in, doing the meet'n'greet kind of thing?

There's no bar or cafe - just the bungalows, so I wouldn't be visibly manning a counter or anything.

Thanks for any help.

[FritsSikkink]

You are not able to do anything without a work permit.

[CharlieH]

There have been many reports over the years of people claiming what you are saying here, and many have come "unstuck". From a a guy just sat in his wifes bar, to guy helping his wife sell chicken from a  roadside stall. Immigration if they are of a mnd, will do what they are going to do! Technically you should not be there.

 

Realistically, throw the dice ! I definitely wouldnt be checking people in. It onbly takes one phone call. one video and your sunk ! 

Dont risk it is my advice. Keep a very low profile.

[lordmullin]

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

[jak2002003]

Why is it so hard for people to understand this? 

 

OP. You cannot do work at your wife's business. 

 

You must have a work permit. 

 

You not 'just help out' nor can you do voluntary work, even for a good cause of some kind.....without proper documentation. 

 

 

[bamboozled]

In my understanding, you can chat up guests until you're blue in the face. There are many restaurants/bars/guesthouses that run this way. The foreign husband/financier mucks about and chats the patrons. But no, you cannot check anyone in, touch money, move anything, etc.... As CharlieH said, I suppose immi can mess with you with any excuse they want. I would go talk to them directly, perhaps, and explain the situation asking what you can/can't do. This could also be bad advice if it alerts them to keep eyes on the place.

[bamboozled]

5 minutes ago, lordmullin said:

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

Not fraught....expensive. Can work on marriage visa with work permit. Can not work with retirement visa, ever.

[lordmullin]

Just now, bamboozled said:

Not fraught....expensive. Can work on marriage visa with work permit. Can not work with retirement visa, ever.

Thanks for that, Bamb... That's clear????

[lordmullin]

3 minutes ago, bamboozled said:

In my understanding, you can chat up guests until you're blue in the face. There are many restaurants/bars/guesthouses that run this way. The foreign husband/financier mucks about and chats the patrons. But no, you cannot check anyone in, touch money, move anything, etc.... As CharlieH said, I suppose immi can mess with you with any excuse they want. I would go talk to them directly, perhaps, and explain the situation asking what you can/can't do. This could also be bad advice if it alerts them to keep eyes on the place.

Excellent, thanks for that????

[CharlieH]

9 minutes ago, lordmullin said:

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

 

Married Visa, GO TALK to them and find out, areas etc as always will vary.

 

Its because of this inconsistency you are potential danger. what has happened in one area doesnt follow it will automaticaly happen in another. SPEAK to the people in YOUR area they are the one who will unltimately take action. Get it from the horses mouth.

[lordmullin]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 

Married Visa, GO TALK to them and find out, areas etc as always will vary.

 

Its because of this inconsistency you are potential danger. what has happened in one area doesnt follow it will automaticaly happen in another. SPEAK to the people in YOUR area they are the one who will unltimately take action. Get it from the horses mouth.

Will do, thanks Charlie????????

[ChipButty]

Down here in Phuket they are right on it, they will have you, the immigration or the tourist police drive around in unmarked cars, I've seen them 

[JonnyF]

Technically not allowed.

 

However, I am sure most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc. all of which are not technically allowed.

 

Personally I try to keep it as low key as possible when doing stuff on our farm. I wouldn't normally do much near the entrance to the property but I do till the dirt on my motocross track using my tractor, I also cut down any trees impeding the track and generally keep it tidy but the fields are a few hundred metres behind the house. 

 

Personally I would avoid contact with customers that could be construed as doing a job. You never know when someone from immigration will turn up, maybe in a private capacity and then see you "working". Sitting and having a chat with them would be fine, but I wouldn't start serving them drinks, checking them in etc.

[Reginald Prewster]

I bought a farm and also run the company as investor and Director...

Married I need to get a work permit.

 

The work permit can be issued as a Permaculture Teacher or Permaculture Consultant but not as a Farmer.

That means I could teach seeding and planting but if it becomes obvious that I do this commercially they slap my fingers. 

So to be on the safe side there must be always some Apprentice standing beside me who does watching how I plant an example or 100 id he is difficult to teach.

 

Touching money (school fee, visitor's fee on the farm) and again there is a slap on the finger  

By Law it would not be possible to do any job that a Thai could do.... 

 

The best way I found out is approaching (polite) the immigration and tell them what you want to do to help your wife and they understand that your wife cannot do the job alone.

The best answer I got was "not to cross with the tractor the border of our land, but if the tractor is used as private car going to KFC that will be tolerated" 

[lordmullin]

Wow... More great Intel, thanks everybody.

I'm clear on this now.

I'll stay at home, she can run the biz!

 

[bamboozled]

35 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Technically not allowed.

 

However, I am sure most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc. all of which are not technically allowed.

 

Personally I try to keep it as low key as possible when doing stuff on our farm. I wouldn't normally do much near the entrance to the property but I do till the dirt on my motocross track using my tractor, I also cut down any trees impeding the track and generally keep it tidy but the fields are a few hundred metres behind the house. 

 

Personally I would avoid contact with customers that could be construed as doing a job. You never know when someone from immigration will turn up, maybe in a private capacity and then see you "working". Sitting and having a chat with them would be fine, but I wouldn't start serving them drinks, checking them in etc.

Hi JonnyF,

 

I've heard that story about cutting the lawn, painting a wall, etc...as well. And that some guys have been nicked for it. Still, I've never known anyone directly to which it has happened and kinda, sorta, don't want to believe it. It would mean that we also can't wash our clothes, cook our food, clean the house, etc... I'm not sure it's not "technically" allowed but if you are a crank and an arrogant SOB and like to mouth off at authority figures, you can get nabbed for anything. I'm, of course, talking about doing these things at your own residences. I would surmise that a farm is more of a grey area as anything done there could be misconstrued.

 

 

[jvs]

There are big differences about what you can do or not.

If the place is a private residence you can do all kinds of things,mow the lawn,paint the fence,cook your own food and all kinds of maintenance and building.

If the place is a commercial operation you are not even allowed to turn

down the volume of the radio.

Immigration is one thing to watch out for but if you have some one who

is jealous or who does not like you ,you are toast.

 

[BritTim]

To make clear something that no one else has: immigration has nothing to do with work permits. If looking for official advice on what you can or cannot do in terms of working, you need to talk with the Labour Department. If you work without a work permit (or do work that is not specified in your work permit) then the Labour Department may well enlist Immigration or other police to assist in the enforcement activities.

 

The Labour Department can be very helpful and friendly sometimes if you approach them in a respectful manner. It will be difficult to satisfy the requirements for a work permit if your wife's business does not have a couple of other Thai employees and enough paid up capital. Even with a work permit, you will not be able to engage in activities that fall under occupations restricted to Thais (which includes almost everything involved in running a small resort).

 

If you happen to be a US national, there may be options available under the Treaty of Amity, though you would need a clever lawyer to be able to take advantage.

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

To make clear something that no one else has: immigration has nothing to do with work permits. If looking for official advice on what you can or cannot do in terms of working, you need to talk with the Labour Department. If you work without a work permit (or do work that is not specified in your work permit) then the Labour Department may well enlist Immigration or other police to assist in the enforcement activities.

 

The Labour Department can be very helpful and friendly sometimes if you approach them in a respectful manner. It will be difficult to satisfy the requirements for a work permit if your wife's business does not have a couple of other Thai employees and enough paid up capital. Even with a work permit, you will not be able to engage in activities that fall under occupations restricted to Thais (which includes almost everything involved in running a small resort).

 

If you happen to be a US national, there may be options available under the Treaty of Amity, though you would need a clever lawyer to be able to take advantage.

Under the Treaty you still will not be allowed to do work,it only applies to

ownership of the company.

[Sandboxer]

Wash plate in sink after you've made yourself and your wife a burger in your own kitchen - OK.

Wash dishes in your wife's resort's kitchen after you've made the same burgers - NOT OK.

 

Welcoming guests in the lobby of your wife's resort saying "Welcome to my wife's resort, hope you have a great stay. If you need me to help you with any language-related problem (can't read a sign, don't understand what housekeeping lady is saying, need directions into town, etc.), feel free to ask me if you see me in the lobby or run into me in any of the common/public areas doing nothing.": OK

 

Welcoming guests in the lobby and then taking them up to the room, going inside and showing them how a light switch works: NOT OK

 

Cutting the grass on your own residential property: basically OK but I would personally only do it if I have a good relationship with neighbors/people who can see me doing this.

 

Cutting the grass at your wife's resort: might as well just cut up your passport and the visa in it.

 

Ya dig? ????

 

 

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, jvs said:

Under the Treaty you still will not be allowed to do work,it only applies to

ownership of the company.

With expert legal assistance, it can assist with getting a work permit (as the owner of a sole proprietorship). It is still not easy, and the rules on occupations restricted to Thais still exists.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I am sure most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc. all of which are not technically allowed.

Who says that mowing your own lawn, painting your own wall, cutting down your own tree or cleaning your own pool is not permitted?  

[Goat]

17 minutes ago, BritTim said:

To make clear something that no one else has: immigration has nothing to do with work permits. If looking for official advice on what you can or cannot do in terms of working, you need to talk with the Labour Department. If you work without a work permit (or do work that is not specified in your work permit) then the Labour Department may well enlist Immigration or other police to assist in the enforcement activities.

 

The Labour Department can be very helpful and friendly sometimes if you approach them in a respectful manner. It will be difficult to satisfy the requirements for a work permit if your wife's business does not have a couple of other Thai employees and enough paid up capital. Even with a work permit, you will not be able to engage in activities that fall under occupations restricted to Thais (which includes almost everything involved in running a small resort).

 

If you happen to be a US national, there may be options available under the Treaty of Amity, though you would need a clever lawyer to be able to take advantage.

Good post.

It is fairly straight forward getting a work permit on a marriage visa. You havent bought yet so when you do just make sure you structure it correctly.

A few forms to fill out and you are ready to go.

Another option is to pay your local immigration a monthy "gratitude" to turn a blind eye. The Labour Dept grants the work permit but it will be immigration that causes you problems.

[FritsSikkink]

3 minutes ago, Goat said:

Another option is to pay your local immigration a monthy "gratitude" to turn a blind eye. 

Not a smart move, once you start paying, you will keep paying and they can rise the amount anytime.  

[Goat]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

Not a smart move, once you start paying, you will keep paying and they can rise the amount anytime.  

Not from my experience.

I expanded x3 and they gave me a two for three deal. 

Everyone wins.

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are not able to do anything without a work permit.

He can...as long as the authorities are not able to pin him. For example doing the bookkeeping, internet marketing, replying to guests emails and reviews etc. Definitely not meet and greet or anything where a pic or video can be taken.

[Caldera]

The Thai authorities' biggest concern when it comes to foreigners working in Thailand is whether they are taking away work from Thais who could do it instead.

 

That would make the OP a prime target, as "helping around" the wife's resort clearly is something a Thai could do, more specifically a Thai the wife would then have to hire.

[FritsSikkink]

45 minutes ago, gearbox said:

He can...as long as the authorities are not able to pin him. For example doing the bookkeeping, internet marketing, replying to guests emails and reviews etc. Definitely not meet and greet or anything where a pic or video can be taken.

Bookkeeping and internet marketing require certain skills and contacts with external people. Emails can be done if the content or email address doesn't refer back to him. What do you want to review?

[steven100]

So your buying the business for the wife and you just want to help out sometimes.   What could possibly go wrong   !     

[steven100]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

Another option is to pay your local immigration a monthy "gratitude" to turn a blind eye.

very bad advice .... never try this .... it'll get you in all sorts of trouble and it'll never stop,  believe me I know of one farang this happened to.