Not working, just helping the wife

[ChrisKC]

If you are American you will know that the words "help" and *work" can mean exactly the same thing. As an Englishman, I don't especially agree they are exactly the same but I DO think that when it comes to "helping" within the context of a business, then helping IS working. This is the problem that others are commenting on as it relates to how this matter is interpreted by Thai Officialdom.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who says that mowing your own lawn, painting your own wall, cutting down your own tree or cleaning your own pool is not permitted?  

The Thai Labour Department.

 

All work paid or unpaid requires a work permit. Cutting a tree down is work. It's known as being an Arborist. 

[ujayujay]

4 hours ago, bamboozled said:

In my understanding, you can chat up guests until you're blue in the face. There are many restaurants/bars/guesthouses that run this way. The foreign husband/financier mucks about and chats the patrons. But no, you cannot check anyone in, touch money, move anything, etc.... As CharlieH said, I suppose immi can mess with you with any excuse they want. I would go talk to them directly, perhaps, and explain the situation asking what you can/can't do. This could also be bad advice if it alerts them to keep eyes on the place.

Bs....need a work permit. Can apply until the age of 65. Theres no chance to make a deal with Immigration!

[lordmullin]

Okay, thanks to all of you.

I won't be paying anyone off, or bending any rules, or anything else to jeopardise my status here, so that's that.

I was just running the options, see if it was simple - clearly not!

Cheers everyone.

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, lordmullin said:

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

It wouldn't matter as all the jobs you propose doing are protected for Thais only.

[mikecha]

Hi 

maybe this helps 

i deal with The BOI board of investment at chimichurri square 18 floor BKK where all sorts of visa and documents are made 

 

if you have time maybe u make an appointment at the BOi   it is an office on the left side when u come out of the lifts 

they are very helpful and will give u all the exact info you need 

a tip  dress very polite be shaved and cut and not be loud raise your voice  listen to them they do have a very good advise then you know exactly what you can and can not from the authority 

why bkk  if u say to people thatu have this Info   directley  from the Boi in Bkk many people have the thinking this guy done his home work  maybe leave you alone then 

 

good luck 

 

Ps Many stories here of maybe and cant  but if you dont try u never know .but do it the right way and you will be ok 

 

 

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, bamboozled said:

Hi JonnyF,

 

I've heard that story about cutting the lawn, painting a wall, etc...as well. And that some guys have been nicked for it. Still, I've never known anyone directly to which it has happened and kinda, sorta, don't want to believe it. It would mean that we also can't wash our clothes, cook our food, clean the house, etc... I'm not sure it's not "technically" allowed but if you are a crank and an arrogant SOB and like to mouth off at authority figures, you can get nabbed for anything. I'm, of course, talking about doing these things at your own residences. I would surmise that a farm is more of a grey area as anything done there could be misconstrued.

 

 

Had a gf ran a restaurant bar in pats.  She blew a gasket when I picked up my plates and took them to the sink.  Seems that the game in her area was that if a different restaurant saw a farang doing anything they called the cops 

 

Best thing op can do is have a good meal and hot bath ready for her when ycomes home 

[FritsSikkink]

25 minutes ago, mikecha said:

Hi 

maybe this helps 

i deal with The BOI board of investment at chimichurri square 18 floor BKK where all sorts of visa and documents are made 

 

if you have time maybe u make an appointment at the BOi   it is an office on the left side when u come out of the lifts 

they are very helpful and will give u all the exact info you need 

a tip  dress very polite be shaved and cut and not be loud raise your voice  listen to them they do have a very good advise then you know exactly what you can and can not from the authority 

why bkk  if u say to people thatu have this Info   directley  from the Boi in Bkk many people have the thinking this guy done his home work  maybe leave you alone then 

 

good luck 

 

Ps Many stories here of maybe and cant  but if you dont try u never know .but do it the right way and you will be ok 

 

 

The BOI is only for a certain type of companies. Not for a small business.

BOI_A_Guide_EN.pdf

[Purdey]

See the police and be told that you are rich so hire Thai people to help. If you form a business, she 51%, you 49%, there still isn't a guarantee you could do laboring work like mow the grass. I have read of volunteers helping poor people who were deported for working without a work permit.

[tgw]

5 hours ago, lordmullin said:

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

If your wife owns a resort with at least 4 Thai employees, she should be able to apply for a work permit for you.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, lordmullin said:

whilst on a married visa and retired?

Cannot be both, your visa status will be married or retirement.

[lordmullin]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Cannot be both, your visa status will be married or retirement.

I didn't say I had two visas, just that I happen to be retired - and I'm on a married visa. Anyway, academic - if I could close this post I would. I get the gist, already ????

[Hummin]

Where are you guys located? Many foreigners helping out their wife for decades in less populated tourist areas without any problems, but as said, it is more about location than what work and how much help they give. 

 

Risking it all for nothing comes to mind

[jvs]

38 minutes ago, tgw said:

If your wife owns a resort with at least 4 Thai employees, she should be able to apply for a work permit for you.

Yes but then you still won't be allowed to do any work,working in a restaurant is a protected occupation.

 

[Hummin]

I have to add, one guy I known for a few year now, pay police 5k a month to run his resort with a full scale bar and restaurant with his wife as owner. He chat, and serve beer, and also taking care of payment etc. No WP

 

There is a middle way, and not necessary to be so profiled, because if they want to take you, and for some reayget their eyes on you, they most likely  will make an example of you, vut never heard anyone outside a populated tourist area been cought yet. 

 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, jvs said:

Yes but then you still won't be allowed to do any work,working in a restaurant is a protected occupation.

 

Can be chef, can be manager

[nerjaron]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

Bs....need a work permit. Can apply until the age of 65. Theres no chance to make a deal with Immigration!

This is interesting, I have recently thought about contacting a local school to offer my services (free) in any way I can and I was about to read up on work permits until the above "Can apply until the age of 65". I'm 74 - does that mean I am not eligible for a WP and therefore unable to carry out voluntary work?

[Reginald Prewster]

There was once a story of two guys building a boat for own trips and went to the court.They won on the base that it was their hobby.

 

Farming and having animals around me is a hobby too, but even as private farm eating from your land you have to separate the farm that creates a possible income from the private area where the farmhouse stands.

There you can have a herb garden for your kitchen but still it could be considered as too big for self sufficiency. 

 

Best really is to get a work permit as married to a Thai and specify exactly which works you will perform.

Make sure that this work cannot be done by a Thai..

 

In my case

as Permaculturist designing and developing a holistic management system incl moving lifestock as natural workers to stop deserfication, following the principles of Dr Alan Savoy...... Hablar hablar hablar... 

(Some call it "farmer" which I not agree with LOL) 

Planting a tree from South America which requires special knowledge of the tree, special soil and a special micro environment, instead planting a Tomato...

Desingning an Aquaponics System is cool as its your own design and you test and develop it further (investment and teaching included)..

Designing a black soldier fly composter that could be as a commercially expanded system with a footprint of only 10000 sqm, turning the entire biowaste production of Bangkok into a greehouse gas free lifestock feed production unit which stops using horribly expensive fish meal, with a waste produced, called frass or BSF compost and liquid fertilizer... blah blah blah  .....and you are no garbage worker anymore......   

 

know what I mean? 

You need to be very specific in your work permit application to open as much doors possible... 

(of course you need also the specific knowledge for it, I started 9 years ago my detailed documentation - no study)

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Technically not allowed.

 

However, I am sure most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc. all of which are not technically allowed.

 

Personally I try to keep it as low key as possible when doing stuff on our farm. I wouldn't normally do much near the entrance to the property but I do till the dirt on my motocross track using my tractor, I also cut down any trees impeding the track and generally keep it tidy but the fields are a few hundred metres behind the house. 

 

Personally I would avoid contact with customers that could be construed as doing a job. You never know when someone from immigration will turn up, maybe in a private capacity and then see you "working". Sitting and having a chat with them would be fine, but I wouldn't start serving them drinks, checking them in etc.

Actually, legally not allowed, not technically.

As for "most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc" if done in or around your home, the place where you live - no problems. What you're doing on your farm is illegal and you can't even get a work permit for that kind of work. Being a farm that means commercial, a place of business. The fact that you do it in parts of the farm that no one can see, well, you know, a thief is not jailed for being a thief. He's jailed for getting caught...

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Actually, legally not allowed, not technically.

As for "most of us have mowed the lawn, painted a wall, cut down a tree, cleaned a pool etc" if done in or around your home, the place where you live - no problems.

I wouldn't be so sure. It's still a paid job for someone if you didn't do it. You are effectively taking the work of a Thai Arborist. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

 

What you're doing on your farm is illegal and you can't even get a work permit for that kind of work. Being a farm that means commercial, a place of business. The fact that you do it in parts of the farm that no one can see, well, you know, a thief is not jailed for being a thief. He's jailed for getting caught...

My farm is not a commercial farm, it's a hobby farm. It's basically a house with a very, very large garden and lots of fruit trees in said "garden". 

 

And what if the work that I am doing is not work (farming), but simply gardening. I would simply be pruning a tree in my garden, same as the guy with a 4 x 4 metre lawn in his 2 up 2 down house in the Moo Bahn.

 

Ultimately it's Thailand so how this is all interpreted would come down to whether you had irritated the wrong people.

 

Checking people in at a hotel is a totally different ball game.

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, lordmullin said:

Maybe checking guests in, doing the meet'n'greet kind of thing?

There's no bar or cafe - just the bungalows, so I wouldn't be visibly manning a counter or anything.

Thanks for any help.

The short answer is: You need a work permit.

You can be investor in a partnership or company, be a director as board-member, but not do any other physical work without a work permit.

[steven100]

2 hours ago, lordmullin said:

Okay, thanks to all of you.

I won't be paying anyone off, or bending any rules, or anything else to jeopardise my status here, so that's that.

I was just running the options, see if it was simple - clearly not!

Cheers everyone.

 

cheers lord mullin,  lordy lordy '    i hope the resort goes well and you can sit and have a beer and watch the customers car pull in for the room.

[thailand49]

I say don't over think it your retired remember. Do what comes natural she at front desk calls out " honey I need some coping paper for the xerox machine " " honey we are out of toilet paper "

Just remember here in Thailand if you white it isn't right!   If they don't like Cambodian, Loation, Myramar making Somtam, using sidecarts to sell what Thai sell you going to get a visit.

Just be yourself while she busy you have more free time to yourself you need to findd your own happy ending she can manage Thai women don't like their man looking over their shoulders. You need to learn to be more Thai get the hint? ????

Lay low ????
 

[The Fugitive]

41 minutes ago, nerjaron said:

This is interesting, I have recently thought about contacting a local school to offer my services (free) in any way I can and I was about to read up on work permits until the above "Can apply until the age of 65". I'm 74 - does that mean I am not eligible for a WP and therefore unable to carry out voluntary work?

Very good question. I'm over 65 too.  We have a family friend who is headmaster of a local school. Everytime we meet at social occasions he asks when I am coming to his school to teach English? 

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Bookkeeping and internet marketing require certain skills and contacts with external people. Emails can be done if the content or email address doesn't refer back to him. What do you want to review?

All the "external people" can be contacted and chatted with online. I've hired people before to do graphic design and marketing materials from Nepal, China, Croatia, Russia. Replying to emails with proper reply-to recipient is trivial. And as this seems to be a tourist oriented business the customers may leave reviews on Google or TripAdvisor which may need answering. If his wife hires locals to do that stuff it would cost her way more than the money saved by hubby doing low skilled work. Best is that it can be done sitting alone at home, zero chance to get caught by the immigration.

 

There are many thousands here working full time online without any permits, and the immigration can do nothing to stop this.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

If your wife owns a resort with at least 4 Thai employees, she should be able to apply for a work permit for you.

It may only need to be two employees (plus enough paid up capital). However, the question is: a work permit to do what? A work permit still does not allow you to engage in occupations that are restricted to Thais (and that covers most activities that need doing to run a resort). Maybe, you can get a work permit as the resort manager, and that will allow you to show other employees how to do their jobs. However, it will be iffy.

[jvs]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Can be chef, can be manager

Sure but that is not what the Op has in mind.

[renaissanc]

8 hours ago, lordmullin said:

Thank you both, for your answers.

Is it fraught with pitfalls, to apply for a work permit, whilst on a married visa and retired?

If your visa is a marriage visa then you can apply for a work permit. Make sure though that you want to work all the time at the resort.

[Almer]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

So your buying the business for the wife and you just want to help out sometimes.   What could possibly go wrong   !     

Everything

[Almer]

Am I allowed to service the wife or does that fall into the " a Thai could do it"