Not working, just helping the wife

[Hummin]

20 minutes ago, Almer said:

Am I allowed to service the wife or does that fall into the " a Thai could do it"

Depending on who you ask on this fora! 

[steven100]

39 minutes ago, Almer said:

Am I allowed to service the wife or does that fall into the " a Thai could do it"

Is he allowed to kiss the wife or is that considered ' taking a Thais job '  

[Olmate]

There is a farang rides/drives a foodcart around every day whilst his wife (I guess)makes and sells street food. In full view of local shops, other vendors etc.2k from Pattaya in a tourist area,?? 

[Almer]

9 minutes ago, Olmate said:

There is a farang rides/drives a foodcart around every day whilst his wife (I guess)makes and sells street food. In full view of local shops, other vendors etc.2k from Pattaya in a tourist area,?? 

Not an issue until they upset somebody, or they may have it covered, nod nod wink wink

[nerjaron]

3 hours ago, nerjaron said:

This is interesting, I have recently thought about contacting a local school to offer my services (free) in any way I can and I was about to read up on work permits until the above "Can apply until the age of 65". I'm 74 - does that mean I am not eligible for a WP and therefore unable to carry out voluntary work?

Seems to be a bit of a grey area then? A friend in another province, also over 65, already does voluntary school work and the school head sorted out the formalities for him. Perhaps I shall try that route.

[ubonr1971]

YOu dont need a company structure to apply for a WP. You can do it via your wifes name. ie she will pay taxes in her personal name. Take the hotel license that the govt gives you and if you satisfy all other requirements for a WP ie salary and employing x amount of thai staff then you can legally get a WP. BEST to do it after a year of operation. I did it after several yrs. 

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

8 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Who says that mowing your own lawn, painting your own wall, cutting down your own tree or cleaning your own pool is not permitted?  

The Thai Labour Department.

 

All work paid or unpaid requires a work permit. Cutting a tree down is work. It's known as being an Arborist. 

Nonsense. 

Mowing your own lawn is not working, neither is painting your own wall, neither is pruning your own tree.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

Yes but then you still won't be allowed to do any work,working in a restaurant is a protected occupation.

Managing a restaurant isn't a protected occupation, being a chef in a restaurant isn't necessarily a protected occupation.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[tomacht8]

It's sad that a foreign husband is almost forbidden to occasionally help his Thai wife in her own small business. This contradicts many social and moral principles such as the family as the nucleus of society, protection of the family, etc. This applies in particular to small businesses, where the income from the business is usually so low that the bureaucratic act of founding a family company that pays off Social Security, wages and taxes not worth it at all.

Edited June 27, 2023 by tomacht8

[tomacht8]

If you get a work permit as an employee in your wife's business, she must pay you the following minimum wage per month:????

 

How much you get paid depends on your country of origin. Here's how it works out:

60,000 Baht/month: Canada, Japan and the United States of America

50,000 Baht/month: Europe (including the United Kingdom) and Australia

45,000 Baht/month: Hong Kong, Malaysia, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan

35,000 Baht/month: China, India, Indonesia, the Middle East and the Philippines

25,000 Baht/month: Africa, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam

 

Will the bureaucracy, additional taxes, social security payments, etc. really be worth it, if you look at it from the common family perspective?

 

https://www.thethailandlife.com/minimum-wage-thailand

Edited June 27, 2023 by tomacht8

[steven100]

go to immigration and ask them can you sleep with your wife or is that taking ' a thai job away '    Lol

[save the frogs]

try crossdressing.

wear a disguise..

dress up as a thai ladyboy. 

 

 

[tomacht8]

As some posts suggest going straight to the immigration or labor board and asking...

 

Do not do that!!!! That would be an invitation to snoop around on you.

 

Better calculate whether a WP is worthwhile for you and your family, otherwise limit your help to non-visible activities in the background.

[youreavinalaff]

There is a family law that covers marriage.

 

Within that law there is a stipulation that the married couple shall support each other in all aspects of life.

 

@lordmullinif you are not in a touristy area, keep your responsibilities to chatting and odd jobs, you will not have any issues.

 

I supported my wife in her business for many years. During which time we had visits from officialdom. Comments received were basically commending me for giving my wife a hand doing things like lifting and driving. My response was that it was my duty as a husband, according to family law. Always worked.

 

 

 

 

[The Fugitive]

20 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

There is a family law that covers marriage.

 

Within that law there is a stipulation that the married couple shall support each other in all aspects of life.

 

@lordmullinif you are not in a touristy area, keep your responsibilities to chatting and odd jobs, you will not have any issues.

 

I supported my wife in her business for many years. During which time we had visits from officialdom. Comments received were basically commending me for giving my wife a hand doing things like lifting and driving. My response was that it was my duty as a husband, according to family law. Always worked.

Absolutely! There was a posting maybe only a fortnight ago when an immigration officer was quoted as saying; 'Of course you can assist your wife with her farm. You are a married couple and that's what couples do'.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

There is a farang rides/drives a foodcart around every day whilst his wife (I guess)makes and sells street food. In full view of local shops, other vendors etc.2k from Pattaya in a tourist area,?? 

Bear in mind that, in the same way that not all Americans are white Caucasians, some with Thai nationality (especially if long married to a Thai) do not have typical Thai features. Those claiming they see Indians running businesses illegally are usually guilty of this typecasting.

[Dan O]

9 hours ago, Goat said:

Good post.

It is fairly straight forward getting a work permit on a marriage visa. You havent bought yet so when you do just make sure you structure it correctly.

A few forms to fill out and you are ready to go.

Another option is to pay your local immigration a monthy "gratitude" to turn a blind eye. The Labour Dept grants the work permit but it will be immigration that causes you problems.

Bad advice to suggest bribing any govt offical. You just asking for more problems and expectations in the future

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, tomacht8 said:

If you get a work permit as an employee in your wife's business, she must pay you the following minimum wage per month:????

 

How much you get paid depends on your country of origin. Here's how it works out:

60,000 Baht/month: Canada, Japan and the United States of America

50,000 Baht/month: Europe (including the United Kingdom) and Australia

45,000 Baht/month: Hong Kong, Malaysia, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan

35,000 Baht/month: China, India, Indonesia, the Middle East and the Philippines

25,000 Baht/month: Africa, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam

 

Will the bureaucracy, additional taxes, social security payments, etc. really be worth it, if you look at it from the common family perspective?

 

https://www.thethailandlife.com/minimum-wage-thailand

This is a misunderstanding of the rules, These minimums are for an extension of your permission to stay based on working. There is no minimum salary requirement just for the work permit. At one time, the Thai consulate in Penang would provide multiple entry Non B visas to those with work permits who did not qualify for extensions at Immigration because their salaries were too low. When Penang stopped providing these ME visas, the number of people working without work permits increased substantially because it became too onerous for people below the minimum salary levels to try to remain legal.

[tomacht8]

29 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This is a misunderstanding of the rules, These minimums are for an extension of your permission to stay based on working. There is no minimum salary requirement just for the work permit. At one time, the Thai consulate in Penang would provide multiple entry Non B visas to those with work permits who did not qualify for extensions at Immigration because their salaries were too low. When Penang stopped providing these ME visas, the number of people working without work permits increased substantially because it became too onerous for people below the minimum salary levels to try to remain legal.

Then the official from the labor department in Surattani must have told me rubbish. Based on these numbers, the minimum tax and social security contributions are calculated for the WP foreigners. I would love to work in my wife's company for 5000 baht a month. But Unfortunately, these minimum salary sizes apply to me in my Thai family company.

 

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/corporate-and-tax-advisory/thailand-tax-law/mandatory-minimum-wages-foreigners-working-thailand/

Edited June 27, 2023 by tomacht8

[BritTim]

17 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Then the official from the labor department in Surattani must have told me rubbish. Based on these numbers, the minimum tax and social security contributions are calculated for the WP foreigners. I would love to work in my wife's company for 5000 baht a month. But Unfortunately, these minimum salary sizes apply to me in my Thai family company.

 

https://www.legal.co.th/resources/corporate-and-tax-advisory/thailand-tax-law/mandatory-minimum-wages-foreigners-working-thailand/

It is possible that I am out of date. This detailed guide explains the rules as I understand them: https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/foreign-work-permit-application-thailand.html. At the time I last looked into it, this exception, in particular, seemed to be widely allowed:

Quote

-married the cohabiting with a Thai national and has an honest employment.

If the rules are unchanged, I hope disallowing the exception for married couples is restricted to Surat Thani, and is not now the policy nationwide.

[tomacht8]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

It is possible that I am out of date. This detailed guide explains the rules as I understand them: https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/foreign-work-permit-application-thailand.html. At the time I last looked into it, this exception, in particular, seemed to be widely allowed:

If the rules are unchanged, I hope disallowing the exception for married couples is restricted to Surat Thani, and is not now the policy nationwide.

Thx. I've read it and it's quite confusing. The fact is, however, that around 18,000 baht per year has to be paid in taxes and social security, even if you only work part-time in the Thai family company. The basis of assessment are these different minimum salaries for foreigners. Furthermore, the activity must not concern the fields of work that are forbidden for foreigners (aliens) anyway. I think that's what is meant by "honest employment."

 

• Manual work
• Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision
• Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works
• Wood carving
• Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting
• Shop attendance
• Auction
• Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions
• Cutting or polishing jewelry
• Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment
• Cloth weaving by hand
• Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle
• Making of Sa paper by hand
• Lacquer ware making
• Making of Thai musical instrument
• Niello ware making
• Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy
• Bronze ware making
• Making of Thai dolls
• Making of mattress or quilt blanket
• Alms bowls casting
• Making of silk products by hand
• Casting of Buddha images
• Knife making
• Making of paper of cloth umbrella
• Shoemaking
• Hat Making
• Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business
• Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work
• Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising
• Garments making
• Pottery or ceramic ware making
• Cigarette making by hand
• Guide or conducting sightseeing tours
• Street Vending
• Type setting of Thai characters by hand
• Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand
• Office or secretarial work
• Legal or lawsuit services

[BritTim]

59 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

The fact is, however, that around 18,000 baht per year has to be paid in taxes and social security, even if you only work part-time in the Thai family company.

True, when one of the many exceptions does not override the default rules.

[xtrnuno41]

Fact is the harsh rules, about working, is only for farang.

There are other rules for immigrant workers from neighbor countries.

Then the rule, whatever a Thai can do, doesnt comply.

Lots of immigrant workers in Thailand, occupying professions Thai could do.

 

Once asked the question to Siam Legal: what is the Thai definition of work?

Of course they never replied. It is left for interpretation of officers.

You are a life, so your body is WORKING everyday, everywhere, it seems they happily dont make a point on that.

 

So if your hobby is to help your wife with jobs, is it work then?

You state it as a hobby.

You have any machine doing work and you start it with your feet, no manual work. Then what? Or again , it is a hobby.

[JimTripper]

????

Edited June 28, 2023 by JimTripper

[bigt3116]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:29 AM, bamboozled said:

As CharlieH said, I suppose immi can mess with you with any excuse they want. I would go talk to them directly, perhaps, and explain the situation asking what you can/can't do.

He needs to speak to the labour department, not immigration, he is on a marriage extension, so is allowed to work once he has a work permit, which is down to the Labour department, not immigration.

[SS1]

Seems most people are unaware of the amendments to the work permit law that were made in 2018. If you are doing work without a wage, it's no longer considered work! You do not need a work permit for unpaid volounteering, internships etc. as you did in the past. 

 

However, there are two things to consider: I wouldn't be surprised if the local officials are also unaware of this law change so enforcement may vary as usual. Secondly, working for free for the wife's business could possibly be considered work for financial gain due to the fact that you are married (income and expenses shared?), but no idea about the latter. 

 

"Since March 2018, there have been the new amendments to the work permit law, the Administration of Foreign Workers Emergency Decree, B.E. 2560 (2017) (the “Emergency Decree”). But many in foreign communities have not been well aware of or clearly understood this new development even two years have passed.

...

Second, in order to be deemed “work” under the new definition, a foreigner must do it as an occupation to earn a wage. This is the good news for many foreigners. If any foreigner does any work not as an occupation for no wage (i.e. working as volunteer for the benefit of general public), the foreigner’s activity shall not be deemed the “work” under the Emergency Decree No. 2."
 

Source: https://www.naritlaw.com/Resources/Thailands New Work Permit Law_NARITLAW.pdf (+ I attended a seminar with the director of the foreign division of the labour dept. where this was confirmed). 

 

[hotchilli]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:11 AM, lordmullin said:

If my wife buys a small resort (a few bungalows around a pool) where would I stand, legally, regarding 'helping out around the place'?

You're working... if married get a work permit.

[scorecard]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:19 AM, FritsSikkink said:

You are not able to do anything without a work permit.

This exact situation has been the subject of dozens of previous threads.

As already stated, the botttom line, you absolutely can't 'help' legally without a work permit.

 

Best you can do is something, agreed with your wife, that's 'in the shadows' but has value in terms of developing/operationing a succesful business.

 

Perhaps in the bedroom out of sight doing regular research about the industry, searching out information which could lead to identifiying some type of 'competitive advantage' at zero/close to zero cost. 

 

'competitive advantage' - something that makes your 'offering' more attactive to potential guests compared to typical competition resosrts but ensuring that potential customers are aware of what your offering which has extra value for guests, the ultimate aim of course is more revenue. And keeping in mind that others will possibly copy you so be ready to quickly add another/different 'competitive advantage' item.

 

I say 'in the bedroom' because if other employees know what you are doing there's always a chance they will make noises about stealing Thai jobs.

 

Good luck. 

[wazzupnow]

been running severall guesthouses for the wife never had 1 problem ever

just do it who cares

and iff they come just let the wife take care off them a nice meal a few beers does wonders

never paid any shake downs too

i am talking about the last 10 years now and in the heart off CM city

i know its great to say for the vinager pissers you need workpermit bla blah blah for those guys i say PLEASE get a life

[ChrisKC]

8 minutes ago, wazzupnow said:

been running severall guesthouses for the wife never had 1 problem ever

just do it who cares

and iff they come just let the wife take care off them a nice meal a few beers does wonders

never paid any shake downs too

i am talking about the last 10 years now and in the heart off CM city

i know its great to say for the vinager pissers you need workpermit bla blah blah for those guys i say PLEASE get a life

This NOT good advice!