Thai wife being bullied by family

[swerve]

My comment is not so much about the OP.  In my experience, if you ever lend money to a Thai you'll never see it again.  You should consider any loan as a gift that you can later use to resist more give more loans.  Thai's consider a foreigner loan as a something they don't need to pay back (vastly different than a Thai-Thai loan).

[Bangkok Barry]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:20 PM, billd766 said:

Perhaps it might be an idea to gather all of her family together, along with your wife and a good lawyer of your choice, and produce a will cutting her entire family away and leaving them to survive on their own as they did before you came along.

That won't work. Often, the main reason Thais have a kid is so that they will look after them in old age. It's an insurance policy of sorts, in the absence of a welfare system. It also explains why many Thai parents do not raise their own kids but pass on that responsibility to their own parents, who often struggle to look after themselves, let along a boisterous kid. They are not parents in the Western sense. The result is that the kids are not disciplined and we often see the result of that.

[SOTIRIOS]

...Like Someone Stated...'You Are Being Played'...

[swm59nj]

I don’t have a Thai wife. But I have experienced the same mentality just dating Thai women. But previously living in Bangkok for a few years I understand the culture. 
There is a strong bond to family.  And your wife is trying to deal with their mentality and cultural influences. Of course it is very difficult for her. 
She sounds like a good woman.  She knows what is right. She could have easily agreed with them and demanded money from you.  She is not. I commend her. 
The only thing she can basically do is stand up to them. I know easier said than done.  
You can move away and break off any ties with them.  That will be difficult for your wife also. Just discuss all options with her. 
Unfortunately her family is not looking at you like a husband.  They are looking at you as a foreigner.  Basically a bank. I see no problem if they need money for something now and then.  Helping is fine within reason.  But not ongoing. 
And the negative comments on social media.  Yes it’s cruel.  But unfortunately it’s not uncommon to do that in this day and age.  All it was is an attempt to make you feel guilty. 

[Scouse123]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:15 PM, Gecko123 said:

This comment, in particular, struck me as highly manipulative, not to mention, not particularly true to life. It's obviously manipulative because it uses social pressure to prod the OP into building a house to prove his commitment to the relationship.

 

It's not true to life because, if anything, most family members and villagers are secretly jealous if a village girl's social status suddenly improves, and the village pecking order has to be recalibrated. Why would anybody in the family be concerned about whether the foreigner built a house for the girl? The house would belong to the girl, there's nothing in it for the family, why would they care?

The gossips know pushing these areas can cause conflict with the couple and lead to arguments and bust ups and they enjoy this.

 

They are not fools and know they are causing friction.They get nothing out of it except the satisfaction of stirring the pot!

 

If he buys a house , then its the next thing like Where's the new car? They get a buzz from it.

 

They have nothing to do and causing problems is a pastime in Isaarn fuelled by their own inadequacy.

 

They are notorious gossips.  The OPs lady needs to toughen up and tell them she is well taken care of and happy and her financial situation is her own business 

 

It's good advice as that is whst mine did to handle the troublemakers, after talking to me and asking me how she should respond.

[thailand49]

Age really doesn't have too much to do with it unless you got one leg in the grave already lol. 

Here do to a languge barriers and the lack to except criticism tough to have a good conversation.

You got ignorance yes but if you don't know there is two standard no better time than the present.

The key what does the mother and father think?  How close is the relationship with them and the rest of relative? 

She like most women Thai in general are brainwashed condition to feel they are responsible giving the men a pass. It gets worse if they are with a farang with this type of ignorance and belief in the family. 

It isn't easy to sit and have a heart to heart conversation because it really isn't part of their culture especially coming from a farang. All Thai possess " This is Thailand "

It comes down to teaching " stick and stones " secure in them self " 

The only two that really matter is the parents if they are part of the problem the start is how much is your wife willing to give up?  

[digger70]

Easy just tell your wife that not all Farangs are wealthy that you just a poor Farang that can provide for her and not the rest off the family. 

They can either like that or Lump it.

I told Lady Digger that and it slowed down the money hunting I just keep telling them No f,,,n way. One son borrowed some money to buy a car ,told him pay it back or you get kicked out off the house that I built for your Mother and me.

Paid back in full plus a thank you.

[EVENKEEL]

11 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

The gossips know pushing these areas can cause conflict with the couple and lead to arguments and bust ups and they enjoy this.

 

They are not fools and know they are causing friction.They get nothing out of it except the satisfaction of stirring the pot!

 

If he buys a house , then its the next thing like Where's the new car? They get a buzz from it.

 

They have nothing to do and causing problems is a pastime in Isaarn fuelled by their own inadequacy.

 

They are notorious gossips.  The OPs lady needs to toughen up and tell them she is well taken care of and happy and her financial situation is her own business 

 

It's good advice as that is whst mine did to handle the troublemakers, after talking to me and asking me how she should respond.

Kinda funny, we (I) bought land, 6.5 rai and built a house, had a kid, still no car. She'd take songthow to the city for doctor visits. The village was talking about the lack of truck purchase. Bought a new truck the next year as money was made from my overseas work.

[Highlandman]

20 hours ago, swerve said:

My comment is not so much about the OP.  In my experience, if you ever lend money to a Thai you'll never see it again.  You should consider any loan as a gift that you can later use to resist more give more loans.  Thai's consider a foreigner loan as a something they don't need to pay back (vastly different than a Thai-Thai loan).

It's the same in either case. There is no expectation by Thais to pay back a loan given by a family member.

[Highlandman]

20 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

That won't work. Often, the main reason Thais have a kid is so that they will look after them in old age. It's an insurance policy of sorts, in the absence of a welfare system. It also explains why many Thai parents do not raise their own kids but pass on that responsibility to their own parents, who often struggle to look after themselves, let along a boisterous kid. They are not parents in the Western sense. The result is that the kids are not disciplined and we often see the result of that.

It's really sad isn't it? The only Thai parents who do raise their own children are the middle class and upper classes, who mainly live in Bangkok, Chonburi and other wealthy regions of the country.

 

Although they sometimes overdo it (I know several parents who rarely wear masks anymore themselves but force their toddlers to continue to wear masks at all times, for their own "protection"), going to the doctor and freaking out every time their little one has the sniffles (this began long before Covid), constantly posting pictures of their little masked emperor doing all sorts of "cool" things on Facebook. You know, that kind of essentially narcissistic behavior.

 

Constantly showing off their children on the internet, but at least they're the ones raising them, not the grandparents. Poor Thais seem to always pawn off the raising of their children to their grandparents, with often disastrous outcomes. I wonder when this started. Can't imagine this was a thing in Thai society 100 years ago, but it most certainly is nowadays.

[Gecko123]

34 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

Poor Thais seem to always pawn off the raising of their children to their grandparents, with often disastrous outcomes.

Most of the time it's done out of necessity, not to shirk parenting responsibilities. Rural parents are often forced to migrate to urban centers in search of work and the best (and often only) child care option available is to have the children remain in the village and be cared for by the grandparents or other close relatives.

 

The reason this was not so 100 years ago is because with less mechanization, farming activities were more labor intensive and the whole family unit's labor was needed to operate the farm. With the introduction of labor saving farm equipment, demand for farm labor dropped forcing migration to urban centers. This is the root cause of why the nuclear family in rural Thailand is under stress, which is also a problem in virtually every other developing country.

 

Another reason why this problem is intensifying is because 2 or 3 generations ago, chances are the grandparents or other family members charged with caring for the children had been raised in traditional two-parent households. But because this process has been going on for  many decades, nowadays, chances are that the grandparent or other family member charged with raising the kid were themselves raised in a household where the birth parents were frequently absent. So there's a generational erosion of family values and ability to pass on parenting skills.

[Jacques Clouseau]

I don't think any advice can help you, brother.

It's really up to your wife to simply ignore them and cut ties.

Emotional blackmail can't work if there's nobody left to blackmail.

Good luck.

[mosan]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:48 AM, bunnydrops said:

That is a rough one. I am not rich but I help with family when I can. I am paying for one of her sister's twin girls university  room at the moment, a fan room. I offered to pay for an Air room but the family declined the offer. Once a woman all decked out in her finest, told my wife that, in Thai, that she should have waited to find a rich farang to support the whole family while I was standing there.

 

A friend of mine got divorced from his Thai wife, the very next month her parents came to his door wanting their monthly payment.

Wait a minute...what's this about giving monthly payments to the wife's parents??? That a bunch of bunk! I took my wife away from the village...to the US where we resided (among other places) until we returned to live here in Thailand. My wife got jobs and I made it clear that whatever money she earned was hers to do whatever she wanted. She sent some to her family occassionally, but mostly she fed her own wants and saved the rest. Upon our return to Thailand to live, she spent most of her savings and some of mine on building our first house here. Mind you she always worked and now receives a monthly check. I also give her some of mine, but I take care of us and the household, she is free to do whatever she wants with hers. We (meaning me) have never had a problem... Get out of dodge man. If she come with you, she'll love you for it. And she isn't working, then shame on you!

[mosan]

You need to get that woman away from the family (maybe). I took my wife away from the village...to the US where we resided (among other places) until we returned to live here in Thailand. My wife got jobs and I made it clear that whatever money she earned was hers to do whatever she wanted. She sent some to her family occassionally, but mostly she fed her own wants and saved the rest. Upon our return to Thailand to live, she spent most of her savings and some of mine on building our first house here. Mind you she always worked and now receives a monthly check. I also give her some of mine, but I take care of us and the household, she is free to do whatever she wants with hers. We (meaning me) have never had a problem... Get out of dodge man. If she come with you, she'll love you for it. And she isn't working, then shame on you!

[jwest10]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:35 PM, worgeordie said:

They want ,what you have got , seems to be the way things work here,

it's difficult for Thai wives ,they get a lot of pressure from families to

support them ,or lend them (it's always a gift) money ,

 

Get her off social media , have nothing to do with them ,it will not

be easy for her , but for the good of your marriage something you

both must do ,  good luck

 

regards Worgeordie 

Exactly a loan is a gift and substantial too

[swerve]

3 hours ago, Highlandman said:

It's the same in either case. There is no expectation by Thais to pay back a loan given by a family member.

This comment is interesting to me.  My GF had her son and DIL pay back money she loaned the couple when they needed to pay a hospital during a difficult baby delivery.  I donated some cash as I thought it was the proper thing to do.  My cash was a gift and I was very surprised about my GF's stance.  

[Joe Farang]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:44 AM, BritManToo said:

No advice for your wife, but you might like to stop using Thai racial slurs.

The first time you said 'farang' in my presence would be the last time I spoke with you.

You speak to me all the time and look at my name..... nah  nah na na naaaaaah

[Joe Farang]

4 hours ago, Highlandman said:

Can't imagine this was a thing in Thai society 100 years ago, but it most certainly is nowadays.

Grandparents looking after children in the village whilst the younger generation go out working was the natural order worldwide for thousands of years. Grandparents have life experience so would be best placed to pass this on to the younger generation. It also gives them purpose when no longer able to work in the fields or hunt.

Breakdown in society is the root cause of social issues in some youths. Not Grandparents.

[473geo]

26 minutes ago, swerve said:

This comment is interesting to me.  My GF had her son and DIL pay back money she loaned the couple when they needed to pay a hospital during a difficult baby delivery.  I donated some cash as I thought it was the proper thing to do.  My cash was a gift and I was very surprised about my GF's stance.  

Not unusual to have loaned money returned 

I am surprised by the volume of responses categorising loans as a gift

 

[JimTripper]

When family got that way with me I simply stopped responding and no longer allow the messages through. It’s worked out great so far ????????‍♂️, but I guess some holiday I will have to face the music if they are still intent. Nothing a couple glasses of wine won’t fix for another 11 months of peace.

[mrwebb8825]

OP - Do you live near "grandma" and/or visit often? Do you speak Thai? Keep in mind that she's of the "War Baby" generation where many foreigners came through, made babies and just left the family hanging.

Try taking her out for lunch and just chatting. Don't let on that you know anything about her comments and just get to know her, let her get to know you. (assuming you spend 99% of your time with the wife and 1% with the family) Winning grandma over will influence the rest of the family a LOT more than you realize.

Separating the wife from the family should be a very last resort. Keep your wits about you and your emotions in check.

I'm closer to my Thai family now than the 1 I was born into by a huge margin but it didn't happen overnight. We're about to celebrate our 20th anniversary but there were some bumps in the road in the early years.

[Silencer]

My thoughts:

1) This should have been discussed, and settled, BEFORE marriage.

2) In my opinion, your wife DOES owe some support to the grandparents that raised her, assuming they are not independently wealthy, or making a decent income now. That is how it works here. If she had not married you she would have still been expected to help out. There is almost no "social saftey net" that they can expect from the government, pensions, retirement plans, 401ks. The kids they raised, in your case the grandkids they raised, are that safety net. The alternative is to be a jerk and say F them.

3) She can accomplish #2 in one of three ways. Ask you to support them, use her allowance to support them, or get a job and support them. Every couple in your situation will have to decide what is best. In my case, I mostly supported them for 2-3 years, now my wife makes plenty of money to support them herself. Especially if the level of monthly support is low, this should be a no brainer. Your wife should be able to estimate actual needs.

4) No need to support others in the family, unless you or your wife want to, but be prepared when her real parents get older, they will likely come calling as well.  Discuss how to handle that now.

Good luck. 

 

[Dickp]

Read all the remarks and nothing really surprised me.  As for me, I Married my wife in the USA and was not rich by any means. I promised her I would bring home once I retired. Four months later we were sent to Germany. Now she did not speak much English and I did not know any Thai, and were how living in Germany. My wife went to school on base to learn English. We had a baby girl 1 ½ years after we were married lived in Germany for four years and returned to the States for 1 ½ years and then shipped off to England for six and a half years. I kept my promised, we moved directly to Thailand, did my out processing in England before take three months thermal leave. Now here is the twice to the story we had the lease money and income in the whole family. I looked for almost two years before I found a good job. Work my way up and became one of top the employees and made the 2^nd highest yearly income in dollars.  I already was receiving my military retirement pay at the age of 49. At 65 I retired and started drawing my monthly SS and after many years finely received my full VA rated 90% disability pay. And we are still at low and of finances, but our income is every month a good income. In short, I married up little did I know that until we moved to Bangkok. I had barrow from the family to finish our home had built before we arrived here, and paid back every baht with interest.

[747man]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:34 PM, Ben Zioner said:

The idea of ageing triggers anxiety in younger people. The OP is 77, so quite young.

The OP is 77, so quite young......Sooooo,I'm still a BOY with a Man's Face I'm 74........555 !!

[thefarangteacher]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:24 PM, mrwebb8825 said:

OP - Do you live near "grandma" and/or visit often? Do you speak Thai? Keep in mind that she's of the "War Baby" generation where many foreigners came through, made babies and just left the family hanging.

Try taking her out for lunch and just chatting. Don't let on that you know anything about her comments and just get to know her, let her get to know you. (assuming you spend 99% of your time with the wife and 1% with the family) Winning grandma over will influence the rest of the family a LOT more than you realize.

Separating the wife from the family should be a very last resort. Keep your wits about you and your emotions in check.

I'm closer to my Thai family now than the 1 I was born into by a huge margin but it didn't happen overnight. We're about to celebrate our 20th anniversary but there were some bumps in the road in the early years.

We live not too far away from the grandparents. I am learning Thai but am not at a conversational level yet. My wife and I agree separating her from the family is not the way to go about solving this problem.
I am encouraged by your comments about how close you’ve grown to the Thai family! Hopefully as my spoken Thai improves I’ll be able to establish that independent relationship you mention. Time will tell. 

[mrwebb8825]

9 hours ago, thefarangteacher said:

We live not too far away from the grandparents. I am learning Thai but am not at a conversational level yet. My wife and I agree separating her from the family is not the way to go about solving this problem.
I am encouraged by your comments about how close you’ve grown to the Thai family! Hopefully as my spoken Thai improves I’ll be able to establish that independent relationship you mention. Time will tell. 

My wife's mom loves Swesen's ice-cream and grilled river prawns. See if your wife has any insights in grandmas' "favorites" dept. When you "drop by" don't appear rushed to leave or bored. When grandma sees your genuine interest in getting to know her I suspect life will start to ease up somewhat and neither you nor your your wife will need to "shush" the family critics, grandma will. It's also a good way to practice your conversation skills. Chock Dee

[Dan O]

On 7/26/2023 at 4:03 AM, Gecko123 said:

After giving this some additional thought....

 

the wife having been raised by grandparents is a somewhat special circumstance vis-a-vis their expectations regarding sin sod. If the grandparents really did step in and raise the wife on behalf of her real parents (for whatever reason), and they invested a lot in their grand daughter's welfare (nutrition, education, moral training, etc.), they may genuinely feel like they got stiffed on the sin sod, especially if that sacrifice impaired their ability to set money aside for their retirement.

 

Some of the other family members may also feel that they indirectly sacrificed on behalf of the wife because the grand parent's resources were monopolized by the the wife.

 

Also, being older, the grandparent's might be more 'old school' regarding sin sod expectations than today's generations.

 

The possibility that not paying any sin sod may be the root of these tensions may benefit from review.

 

In the past , culturally grandparents take care of grandchildren more often than not across all of Thailand. It has starting to change in the recent past but that cultural thinking is still there.

Historically  it goes for grandparents and parents in most of rural Thailand which is the bulk of the country. They take care of the children and when they get old the children pay it back by taking care of them in return as they age. 

Throw that on top of the pile of respect your parents and family, don't bring shame on the family, maintain face so there isn't village and family gossip, etc. 

 

For the OP, I had this conversation with a couple of friends a few years back when they were faced with the money request and similar comment that op has related. What my friends decided to do each time someone asked for money or commented on buying a house they simply said yes I want to build a house for MY family but I have loaned all my money to help family members ( don't name names) and haven't gotten it back yet to do that. They went on to say we even thought about borrowing money from family but decided not to ask as we know that it may case problems so decided not to ask and work to support OURSELVES and not be a burden.  That stopped almost all close family comments and request for them. Not sure it will work in all situations but I thought it was a clever back door way of putting them on notice. 

 

[Highlandman]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:10 PM, Joe Farang said:

Grandparents looking after children in the village whilst the younger generation go out working was the natural order worldwide for thousands of years. Grandparents have life experience so would be best placed to pass this on to the younger generation. It also gives them purpose when no longer able to work in the fields or hunt.

Breakdown in society is the root cause of social issues in some youths. Not Grandparents.

I don't think so. Mothers looking after the children during the day, while the father goes out to work has been the natural order worldwide for thousands of years. Grandparents would only ever assist soon after birth, but not take over the primary caregiving role. That's only occurred in countries like Thailand, primarily because the parents don't live with their children, since they work in another part of the country or abroad.

[Highlandman]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:07 PM, Dan O said:

In the past , culturally grandparents take care of grandchildren more often than not across all of Thailand. It has starting to change in the recent past but that cultural thinking is still there.

Historically  it goes for grandparents and parents in most of rural Thailand which is the bulk of the country. They take care of the children and when they get old the children pay it back by taking care of them in return as they age. 

Throw that on top of the pile of respect your parents and family, don't bring shame on the family, maintain face so there isn't village and family gossip, etc. 

 

For the OP, I had this conversation with a couple of friends a few years back when they were faced with the money request and similar comment that op has related. What my friends decided to do each time someone asked for money or commented on buying a house they simply said yes I want to build a house for MY family but I have loaned all my money to help family members ( don't name names) and haven't gotten it back yet to do that. They went on to say we even thought about borrowing money from family but decided not to ask as we know that it may case problems so decided not to ask and work to support OURSELVES and not be a burden.  That stopped almost all close family comments and request for them. Not sure it will work in all situations but I thought it was a clever back door way of putting them on notice. 

 

In the past, when mothers didn't have to go out and work, they looked after the children. This has changed to grandparents over the past few decades as social and economic conditions have changed.

 

Look at hill tribes in Laos for instance; the mothers would take their children to the fields and take care of them while they work OR outside the home, if they primarily work from or near their homes. You don't generally see grandparents being the primary caregivers in Lao villages, except in the case of parents who are migrant workers living and working abroad. 

 

Africa is similar. Again, not saying grandparents aren't important caregivers, as they do tend to be there too, but traditionally, mothers raised their children by staying home and tending to household duties. It's different now, but in rural northern Laos, one can still get a glimpse of the past, since the lifestyles of many rural people, especially tribal peoples such as the Hmong, remain relatively unchanged from decades and centuries past. 

[JimTripper]

Tell grandma to get a job and see how fast she avoids the money subject in the future.