EV Concerns EVs On Fire

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

It would be nice to see statistics based on km driven, rather than per vehicle. 

The average age of EV is also less than combustible engine cars, which could also be a factor.

Kms & age is going to be a bit irrelevant, considering the possible leak & igniting points from to to combustion of an ICE vs no flammable liquid being moved on an EV.

 

No need to be the sharpest tack in the box to realize one has more potential of a fire over the other.

 

'oil worker' ... hmm ????

[blackcab]

Moved to the motoring forum.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

9 months in with our EV, and unless an impatient person when O&A, (or work on the road) then I can't think of 1 disadvantage we've experiences.   Plenty of advantages though.

 

Matter of fact, it's easier to find a CS than E85, though mute now, since about the same price as 91.

I have never had a problem with acknowledging the advantages of EV's, such as running costs, noise, and environmental sustainability IF recharged from renewable energy.

 

Range anxiety is a problem. If one runs out of electrons on the road, a jerrycan of gasoline won't fix it, and a diesel generator (ironic) brought to the site will be sloooow.

 

It costs very little to fix a leaking petrol tank. I've done it with plain soap and water. OTOH, an EV battery with any kind of malfunction requires specialist attention.

 

The other aspect is time to charge. There is one charging station on the 118 going out of Chiang Mai. Among 9 gasoline pumps. If one or two cars are there before you, it's a long wait.

 

BTW, the adjective you want is "moot". Mute means silent, which is an attribute I have not observed in you.

 

 

[TimeMachine]

I had a battery drill explode.  The lithium sparked and smoked badly inside.  Lucky i had fire extinguisher.  It was the powder type and did a very good job of putting the explosion out.  Make sure you have powder extinguishers at your home.  There is a chance you could minimize the damage, but in practice,  because of location of battery in a car may not help. What is the advice for handling a large scale lithium fire. 

[BKKBike09]

Quite surprised by this from Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade - "Each year we help around 650 people whose vehicle has caught fire. Fires are most likely to start when you're driving which can be a terrifying experience."

 

https://www.dsfire.gov.uk/safety/on-the-road/car-and-vehicle-fires

 

Doesn't say how many of those are ICE/EV incidents, but seems like quite a lot however you cut it. I'd extrapolate that to mean that there's a risk of your car vehicle catching fire no matter what sort of energy powers it. 

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ of course the extra weight is relevant. Like say going uphill.

No point in having twice the power if the vehicle weights twice as much.

Can only speak from experience, but our EV has no issues with inclines, and just back from very hilly, steep roads, which the ICE version of, would not have performed as well.  

 

The difference in power & performance is mind boggling.  You really have to own one or test drive to appreciate the difference.

 

OK, I checked ... wt 1290 vs 1570, ICE vs EV

Edited July 24, 2023 by KhunLA

[BKKBike09]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If one runs out of electrons on the road, a jerrycan of gasoline won't fix it

Actually, not to nit pick, but it will if you have a Nissan Kicks. That being the (to me bizarre) EV that generates its electricity from an, er, onboard petrol engine.

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

BTW, the adjective you want is "moot". Mute means silent, which is an attribute I have not observed in you.

Thanks thought that looked off ... damn ... too late to edit

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

25 minutes ago, TimeMachine said:

I think its more about the vroom vroom sound and the rumble. Driving in EV is super smooth and quite.  I prefer that but appreciate it is a bit gay compared to the manly roar of explosive petrol

Fixed that with my 1 EV ... look out, Harley coming through:

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by KhunLA

[NextG]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

9 months in with our EV, and unless an impatient person when O&A, (or work on the road) then I can't think of 1 disadvantage we've experiences.   Plenty of advantages though.

 

Matter of fact, it's easier to find a CS than E85, though mute now, since about the same price as 91.

Pretty sure that few people in my building know that the charging point was on fire…

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

Actually, not to nit pick, but it will if you have a Nissan Kicks. That being the (to me bizarre) EV that generates its electricity from an, er, onboard petrol engine.

IIRC the Toyota Prius was the first hybrid. Claims made for their fuel economy over a full ICE are somewhat exaggerated.

It did give comfort to the virtue signallers, however.

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Fixed that with my 1 EV ... look out, Harley coming through:

 

Is that a baby angora, or a dog?

[VocalNeal]

29 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

OK, I checked ... wt 1290 vs 1570, ICE vs EV

That's like always driving around with 3 adults passengers and a child in the vehicle. 

I guess it all down to personal preference.

As long as we all know that we are not going to save the planet by driving an electric car. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Kms & age is going to be a bit irrelevant, considering the possible leak & igniting points from to to combustion of an ICE vs no flammable liquid being moved on an EV.

 

No need to be the sharpest tack in the box to realize one has more potential of a fire over the other.

 

'oil worker' ... hmm ????

Odd why airline prefere to record accidents per passenger x km, but don't let a bit of statistical manipulation stain ur EV illusion. Ignorance is still the ultimate bliss ????. 

[soi3eddie]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

What makes me pause for thought is if an EV catches fire while parked in a condominium garage. In Bangkok it's normal for the first 7 floors of a modern condominium building to be used for parking spaces.

 

If an EV caught fire the building sprinkler system wouldn't extinguish the fire. The fire brigade couldn't get their trucks into the garage as the ceilings are too low, meaning they would have to use hoses installed in the building or run their own hoses. There is little chance of towing the burning vehicle out of the garage.

 

My concern is about structural damage to the condominium during a sustained fire. In a sustained fire the concrete and steel of the building can be damaged leading to risk of collapse.

 

With car insurance payouts in Thailand capped at a low level who would pay for all that potential damage?

 

If this becomes an issue in Europe/UK, etc then I can see additional fireproofing being required in multistorey and underground car parks.

 

This is not going to stop EVs, it's more a case of building regulations potentially changing to meet new requirements.

Very topical. At our recent condo AGM there was a proposal regarding installing chargers for EVs in our underground car park. Should an EV fire occur, it would be impossible to get a fire truck in there. If the fire was to spread to other vehicles, the inferno could quite possibly result in structural collapse of the whole building. I haven't heard the result of the AGM but suspect that my written objections as a co-owner (on these fire grounds) may not have made a difference. I'll find out when returning in a few months.

 

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, Raindancer said:

My post was not silly.

The headline was though.

 

If you are confused, read it again.

Edited July 24, 2023 by KannikaP

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Groan

 

Statistically ICE cars are more prone to fires than EV's.

And the fire of normal cars can be handled by any fire fighter. Douse the flames, problem solved.

 

But if a Lithium battery burns, then it burns. And burns. There is no way for firefighters to kill that fire. That is why it is so dangerous - not just for cars. 

[transam]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Groan

 

Statistically ICE cars are more prone to fires than EV's.

Sunbeam, I think you missed the point.....????

 

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

Quite surprised by this from Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade - "Each year we help around 650 people whose vehicle has caught fire. Fires are most likely to start when you're driving which can be a terrifying experience."

 

https://www.dsfire.gov.uk/safety/on-the-road/car-and-vehicle-fires

 

Doesn't say how many of those are ICE/EV incidents, but seems like quite a lot however you cut it. I'd extrapolate that to mean that there's a risk of your car vehicle catching fire no matter what sort of energy powers it. 

60 years driving bangers to brand new ICE cars. Never a fire in any of them.

[transam]

Those who own an EV will always protect their choice, even to the point of dismissing the known fact of dealing with a lithium fire, a fire that can start with no warning whatsoever.

If these people came on here and said it has never happened, that maybe different, but it has, with catastrophic results.....Mr. MG..... 

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

If these people came on here and said it has never happened, that maybe different, but it has, with catastrophic results.....Mr. MG..... 

Yes it has happened, depending on the statistics you read, it has happened between 10 and 100 times more often with ICE cars, sometimes much more catastrophic with an explosion, gasoline has a far higher energy density than Lithium Batteries.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Yes it has happened, depending on the statistics you read, it has happened between 10 and 100 times more often with ICE cars, sometimes much more catastrophic with an explosion, gasoline has a far higher energy density than Lithium Batteries.

Try putting a battery fire out with a blanket or the usual methods.

Some worrying videos on Youtube regarding unattended parked up EV's...

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Groan

 

Statistically ICE cars are more prone to fires than EV's.

Statistically your are most probably correct since EV sales in Thailand comprised 3% of total automobile sales in 2022. leaving the other 97% being ICE vehicles

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Try putting a battery fire out with a blanket or the usual methods.

Some worrying videos on Youtube regarding unattended parked up EV's...

I will sleep comfortably in my bed knowing my EV's are 10-100 times less likely to burn or explode than the ICE cars I used to own.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Statistically your are most probably correct since EV sales in Thailand comprised 3% of total automobile sales in 2022. leaving the other 97% being ICE vehicles

Actually not correct.  The fires are measured per 1,000 cars of similar type, so volume of EV's sold is irrelevant.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Odd why airline prefere to record accidents per passenger x km, but don't let a bit of statistical manipulation stain ur EV illusion. Ignorance is still the ultimate bliss ????. 

Obvious airline aren't going to tell you how many oops they've had, as would scare everyone.

 

Another silly apples & orange comparison.  On topic, EV fires, and I'll take the insurance companies stats, as probably the most accurate.  

... "There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles." ... nuff said

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Is that a baby angora, or a dog?

Dog

Edited July 24, 2023 by KhunLA

[DavisH]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

which is BS when the electricity to recharge them comes from fossil fuel power stations.

Not to mention that Chinese-made batteries are made with Australian coal! Which in itself creates a carbon debt od somthing like 9-10 tonnes of carbon dioxide, even before the car has rolled out of the manufacturing plant. EVs wont truly become green until their production is entirely from renewable energy. 

 

Having said that, most don't buy EVs in Thailand becaue of their perceived greeness. They just want t save a few baht....I hope they sell their car while it still has warranty. It will be worthless out of warranty. 

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Not to mention that Chinese-made batteries are made with Australian coal! Which in itself creates a carbon debt od somthing like 9-10 tonnes of carbon dioxide, even before the car has rolled out of the manufacturing plant. EVs wont truly become green until their production is entirely from renewable energy. 

 

Having said that, most don't buy EVs in Thailand becaue of their perceived greeness. They just want t save a few baht....I hope they sell their car while it still has warranty. It will be worthless out of warranty. 

You're not really trying to compare the energy used (carbon footprint) to produce batteries vs the energy used to drill, refine/produce & transport fossil fuels, as that would really be silly.   Aside from the pollution ICEV contribute every time they're used.

 

And apparently only EV batteries, as all other production is fine with the anti EV'ers.  Just seems the EVs are the Devil's invention.

 

Ride a scooter behind an EV and a petrol/diesel vehicle, and get back to me which one you think is the worst.  Or just stand on any busy metro, and suck it all in ... nuff said.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Obvious airline aren't going to tell you how many oops they've had, as would scare everyone.

 

Another silly apples & orange comparison.  On topic, EV fires, and I'll take the insurance companies stats, as probably the most accurate.  

... "There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles." ... nuff said

Dog

Here the link that you forgot to provide

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/

[vinny41]

Lithium batteries can ignite weeks after a crash - but EVs not necessarily more fire prone than gas vehicles

Another heavy concern is that lithium-Ion EV batteries are difficult to extinguish and may require a lot of water, depending on the situation and the equipment availiable in the accident scene .In some extreme cases EV fires have required 30,000 gallons / 110,000 liters of water  to extinguish.

https://ctif.org/news/lithium-ev-batteries-can-ignite-weeks-after-crash-not-necessarily-more-fire-prone-gas-vehicles