Dizzy, headache.

[Mark Nothing]

I have had this dizziness problem and have had good luck standing up more slowly.  Rather than jumping out of bed quickly.

 

After one long haul flight I had vertigo dizziness that was very unpleasant and it went away after a few minutes and never returned.  Maybe 5 years ago.

 

Another trick I have is to pray to God for health and vitality then follow my intuition.  Interestingly science is never the answer received.

 

I hope you are feeling better.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Saw a doctor at a clinic and was charged 1000 baht for just getting blood pressure taken, 146/86, pulse 53(normal for me) and a few pills. He said my BP was slightly high. 

Just asked a couple of questions, said don't worry and gave me Nuro B pills and flutan, which are for migraine. 

Not happy with service, thought he'd check some other things. On main road in Hua Hin. 

 

 

Such clinics are best avoided. With the exception of a few places (notably Chiang Mai), stand alone clinics here tend to be dodgy and outpatient department of a large hospital is where one should go -- preferrably either a government regional hospital, university hospital, large military hospital or large private hospital. Unfortunately there are no hospitals meeting that description in the Hua Hin area. . 

 

If this persists (or worsens) , I recommend you travel up to Thonburi area and consult a cardiologist doctor at Siriraj or Thonburi Hospital.

 

Do you have a home BP monitor? If so, take your BP before getting up and then again right after and record results, will be helpful to doctor to know. What you describe is often due to orthostatic hypotension (drop in BP when lying down and especially immediately after getting up fro ma lying or sitting position).  Isolated BP reading while at a doctor's office doesn't really tell much in terms of your hemodynamic status first thing in the morning and after first getting out of bed. 

 

Also take your pulse for a full one minute and check to see if it is regular. If it is not, or if it is below 40/minute (counting for full minute) go at once to hospital.

 

Inhaled steroids do over time have some systemic effects (though less than with oral steroids) and a dose reduction will sometimes produce effects related to adrenal suppression such as orthostatic BP. More likely if also taking BP meds, or somewhat dehydrated. Are you on BP meds?

 

One other point to consider, since you mention recent running, is whether you could be dehydrated or lacking in key electrolytes. Have you tried taking electrolyte solutions and more fluid in general?

 

In summary:

 

- get BP device and take your BP immediately upon waking up (before getting out of bed) and then again after standing up, and at any other time you feel dizzy. Record results. Good chance you will find that your BP drops low immediately after getting up. Also note with this whether headache present.

 

- Sit on the edge of the bed for a while before standing, don't just get right up (to avoid risk of passing out or falling).

 

- Take your pulse at rest for a full minute to get accurate rate and above all, note if it is regular.( Ignore heart rate readings on your BP machine, these are not reliable with slow or irregular heart rates.)

 

- Drink more fluids, especially complete electrolyte solutions (electolyte packets from 7-11 or pharmacy,  or green coconut water; orange or lemon juice from marker stalls (nam minao, nam som) are also good as they normally add some salt). Do this for a few days now and at any time you have been sweating a lot,. be especially sure to adequately replace fluid and electrolytes after running or other exercise.

 

- See a cardiologist if symptoms persist or worsen, or if heart rate is irregular or below 40/minute when counted for a full minute. Also if BP at home is frequently >130/90 or consistently <90/60. Or if  orthostatic changes persist despite adequate hydration. If you are currently on any BP or cardiac meds then see doctor sooner as med adjustment may be needed.

[mstevens]

7 hours ago, bignok said:

Lack of sodium is my guess. You lose a lot due to exercise or sweat.

Yeah, I was thinking the same.

 

Up your electrolytes - coconut water is an excellent source, and see if that helps.

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

I have had this dizziness problem and have had good luck standing up more slowly.  Rather than jumping out of bed quickly.

 

After one long haul flight I had vertigo dizziness that was very unpleasant and it went away after a few minutes and never returned.  Maybe 5 years ago.

 

Another trick I have is to pray to God for health and vitality then follow my intuition.  Interestingly science is never the answer received.

 

I hope you are feeling better.

Thanks

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Such clinics are best avoided. With the exception of a few places (notably Chiang Mai), stand alone clinics here tend to be dodgy and outpatient department of a large hospital is where one should go -- preferrably either a government regional hospital, university hospital, large military hospital or large private hospital. Unfortunately there are no hospitals meeting that description in the Hua Hin area. . 

 

If this persists (or worsens) , I recommend you travel up to Thonburi area and consult a cardiologist doctor at Siriraj or Thonburi Hospital.

 

Do you have a home BP monitor? If so, take your BP before getting up and then again right after and record results, will be helpful to doctor to know. What you describe is often due to orthostatic hypotension (drop in BP when lying down and especially immediately after getting up fro ma lying or sitting position).  Isolated BP reading while at a doctor's office doesn't really tell much in terms of your hemodynamic status first thing in the morning and after first getting out of bed. 

 

Also take your pulse for a full one minute and check to see if it is regular. If it is not, or if it is below 40/minute (counting for full minute) go at once to hospital.

 

Inhaled steroids do over time have some systemic effects (though less than with oral steroids) and a dose reduction will sometimes produce effects related to adrenal suppression such as orthostatic BP. More likely if also taking BP meds, or somewhat dehydrated. Are you on BP meds?

 

One other point to consider, since you mention recent running, is whether you could be dehydrated or lacking in key electrolytes. Have you tried taking electrolyte solutions and more fluid in general?

 

In summary:

 

- get BP device and take your BP immediately upon waking up (before getting out of bed) and then again after standing up, and at any other time you feel dizzy. Record results. Good chance you will find that your BP drops low immediately after getting up. Also note with this whether headache present.

 

- Sit on the edge of the bed for a while before standing, don't just get right up (to avoid risk of passing out or falling).

 

- Take your pulse at rest for a full minute to get accurate rate and above all, note if it is regular.( Ignore heart rate readings on your BP machine, these are not reliable with slow or irregular heart rates.)

 

- Drink more fluids, especially complete electrolyte solutions (electolyte packets from 7-11 or pharmacy,  or green coconut water; orange or lemon juice from marker stalls (nam minao, nam som) are also good as they normally add some salt). Do this for a few days now and at any time you have been sweating a lot,. be especially sure to adequately replace fluid and electrolytes after running or other exercise.

 

- See a cardiologist if symptoms persist or worsen, or if heart rate is irregular or below 40/minute when counted for a full minute. Also if BP at home is frequently >130/90 or consistently <90/60. Or if  orthostatic changes persist despite adequate hydration. If you are currently on any BP or cardiac meds then see doctor sooner as med adjustment may be needed.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. 

I'm not on any BP meds. The only other thing I take us 100 mg Neutrontin. Actually, recently tapered from 300 mg, decreasing weekly by small amounts. 

Ill get a BP device and do as you advise, also drink more. Been constipated too the last few days, maybe this is related to dehydration. Also slight throbbing, no pain left calf. Seems better since I got compression socks. 

Thanks again.????

[fredwiggy]

14 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

So what are your qualifications that make you more qualified than "thousands of medical professionals" to advise us about running?

The link you provide is not science but opinion and quotes the owner of a gym who is obviously trying to drum up customers!

 

This is from your link!

Fighting Words is a column in which writers rub you the wrong way with their unpopular but well-argued opinions on fitness, health, nutrition,

 

 

He's actually a little right about running being a bad activity. Not bad because you are burning calories and increasing your heart rate but hard on the joints, especially as you age. Walking fast the same distance will give you the results you need. Weight training is always the best exercise because it increases muscle mass, protects the joints (if not done as I did it, with extreme weights), and burns calories. More muscle your body has, the more calories your body burns in any movements. As far as the op's question, I assume low blood sugar, pre diabetes, or low blood pressure (happens to me from this sometimes when I stand up quickly).  Edited, didn't get a chance to read a few others responses first.

Edited September 4, 2023 by fredwiggy

[wwest5829]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I've been dizzy when getting out of bed the last few days. 

Also had headache 2 days. 

 

Had swollen left calf muscle last week, but better now. 

Pretty sure that was caused by very hot bath after running 7.5 km with no shoes on. 

 

Any doctor in the house? 

Also dropped a steroid inhaler to half strength recently, but breathing seems OK. 

Not medical doctor. But sometimes I have found this result of low blood sugar or low blood pressure. So far, corrects itself pretty quickly. If I think I need it (rarely) a Pepsi Cola answers the sugar boost. Do make sure the water intake is looked after in the heat/along with exercise. Just my two satang …

Edited September 4, 2023 by wwest5829

[Neeranam]

13 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Not medical doctor. But sometimes I have found this result of low blood sugar or low blood pressure. So far, corrects itself pretty quickly. If I think I need it (rarely) a Pepsi Cola answers the sugar boost. Do make sure the water intake is looked after in the heat/along with exercise. Just my two sating …

thanks

[jeddas]

Go to a doctor and get ultrasound scan

I had all symptoms for dvt and 4 hospital docs said 'no dvt". 3 days later i collapsed.ct scan showed blood clot now in lungs. Do not wait

.

 

 

.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Such clinics are best avoided. With the exception of a few places (notably Chiang Mai), stand alone clinics here tend to be dodgy and outpatient department of a large hospital is where one should go -- preferrably either a government regional hospital, university hospital, large military hospital or large private hospital. Unfortunately there are no hospitals meeting that description in the Hua Hin area. . 

 

If this persists (or worsens) , I recommend you travel up to Thonburi area and consult a cardiologist doctor at Siriraj or Thonburi Hospital.

 

Do you have a home BP monitor? If so, take your BP before getting up and then again right after and record results, will be helpful to doctor to know. What you describe is often due to orthostatic hypotension (drop in BP when lying down and especially immediately after getting up fro ma lying or sitting position).  Isolated BP reading while at a doctor's office doesn't really tell much in terms of your hemodynamic status first thing in the morning and after first getting out of bed. 

 

Also take your pulse for a full one minute and check to see if it is regular. If it is not, or if it is below 40/minute (counting for full minute) go at once to hospital.

 

Inhaled steroids do over time have some systemic effects (though less than with oral steroids) and a dose reduction will sometimes produce effects related to adrenal suppression such as orthostatic BP. More likely if also taking BP meds, or somewhat dehydrated. Are you on BP meds?

 

One other point to consider, since you mention recent running, is whether you could be dehydrated or lacking in key electrolytes. Have you tried taking electrolyte solutions and more fluid in general?

 

In summary:

 

- get BP device and take your BP immediately upon waking up (before getting out of bed) and then again after standing up, and at any other time you feel dizzy. Record results. Good chance you will find that your BP drops low immediately after getting up. Also note with this whether headache present.

 

- Sit on the edge of the bed for a while before standing, don't just get right up (to avoid risk of passing out or falling).

 

- Take your pulse at rest for a full minute to get accurate rate and above all, note if it is regular.( Ignore heart rate readings on your BP machine, these are not reliable with slow or irregular heart rates.)

 

- Drink more fluids, especially complete electrolyte solutions (electolyte packets from 7-11 or pharmacy,  or green coconut water; orange or lemon juice from marker stalls (nam minao, nam som) are also good as they normally add some salt). Do this for a few days now and at any time you have been sweating a lot,. be especially sure to adequately replace fluid and electrolytes after running or other exercise.

 

- See a cardiologist if symptoms persist or worsen, or if heart rate is irregular or below 40/minute when counted for a full minute. Also if BP at home is frequently >130/90 or consistently <90/60. Or if  orthostatic changes persist despite adequate hydration. If you are currently on any BP or cardiac meds then see doctor sooner as med adjustment may be needed.

I also have a blood sugar tester (Accu) which I bought through Lazada. I used it every day for a week before I ate or drank to establish an average. Now I do the test on a Monday morning only.

 

As Sheryl said you may be dehydrated. I was and the doctor recommended ORS which is Oral Resuscitation Salts which I get from the local pharmacy at 500 baht per 100 sachets.

 

I put 3 of them into a jug of 1,500 ml cold water and stir it around. I also add some Blue Boy Sala to give it a bit of flavour. I am down to 3 litres a day now from 5 litres a day after my first blackout.

 

What I can say is that it works for me.

 

As Sheryl says don't bother with clinics or private hospitals. Register with a large state hospital as they are more reliable and cheaper.

 

IMHO the only person on ANN/TVF worth listening to is Sheryl.

 

Most of the rest have no real idea, unless they have gone through the same problems as you. What they do have is their experience of what happened to them and the treatments they received.

 

I have no idea of your age but I am now exercising for about 1 1/2 hours per day using the UK NHS recommendations for exercise for the elderly which is done at home.

 

Normally a safer environment that running outside. It has the advantage of people around most of the time, and you are not out on the roads on your own should a problem arise.

[Expat68]

On 9/3/2023 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

The dizziness and headaches could be Vertigo, I had a couple of instances of this over the last 5 years.

A visit to the outpatients and a course of medication ( 5 days I think ) cleared it right up.

 

https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/ears-nose-and-throat/vertigo#:~:text=Vertigo is commonly caused by,migraines – severe headaches

I have suffered vertigo before but never had a headache with it.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I also have a blood sugar tester (Accu) which I bought through Lazada. I used it every day for a week before I ate or drank to establish an average. Now I do the test on a Monday morning only.

 

As Sheryl said you may be dehydrated. I was and the doctor recommended ORS which is Oral Resuscitation Salts which I get from the local pharmacy at 500 baht per 100 sachets.

 

I put 3 of them into a jug of 1,500 ml cold water and stir it around. I also add some Blue Boy Sala to give it a bit of flavour. I am down to 3 litres a day now from 5 litres a day after my first blackout.

 

What I can say is that it works for me.

 

As Sheryl says don't bother with clinics or private hospitals. Register with a large state hospital as they are more reliable and cheaper.

 

IMHO the only person on ANN/TVF worth listening to is Sheryl.

 

Most of the rest have no real idea, unless they have gone through the same problems as you. What they do have is their experience of what happened to them and the treatments they received.

 

I have no idea of your age but I am now exercising for about 1 1/2 hours per day using the UK NHS recommendations for exercise for the elderly which is done at home.

 

Normally a safer environment that running outside. It has the advantage of people around most of the time, and you are not out on the roads on your own should a problem arise.

Useful, thanks. Yes, Sheryl is great! 

 

I just went to the largest government hospital in town and saw a great doctor for free as I have Social Security. She gave a thorough examination and said it definitely wasn't a blot clot in my leg. She wants me to go back next week for blood tests. I'm 57. Gave me dramamine for dizziness. I usually run 20 km a week and also play golf/tennis.

BP was 135/? 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Neeranam

[DJ54]

Suggest go see a Dr. to find out the cause. Last week my Mom (91 yrs old).wasn’t feeling good went to Dr (US) low potassium given medication rest at home 2 days. No improvement sister took her to ER and she was admitted. Less than two days later she died. So go to the Dr, don’t risk your life. 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Suggest go see a Dr. to find out the cause. Last week my Mom (91 yrs old).wasn’t feeling good went to Dr (US) low potassium given medication rest at home 2 days. No improvement sister took her to ER and she was admitted. Less than two days later she died. So go to the Dr, don’t risk your life. 

Sorry about your mom.

I've seen 2 doctors already. 

[charliebadenhop]

I had cancer last year, and I am now cancer free!

 

My last radiation treatment was 10 months ago, but my throat is still a bit swollen (I had throat cancer). The swelling causes my hearing to be a bit off and I need to "clear" my ears several times a day like I am landing in a commercial plane.

 

Last month I started getting dizzy spells and the doctor wound up saying, after a LOT of tests that it is my swollen throat that is the main cause...

 

Just saying...

[blackshadow]

for balance problem try STUGERON 25 mgs.....

check the name out on google...will tell you the doseage

[swm59nj]

I have had Vertigo for years.  And yes I can have headaches with it.  And I have been treated by doctors and given tests to rule out anything else.  
I can tell you yes it’s probably just vertigo. But I won’t because I’m not a doctor.  And vertigo  is a general symptom that can be caused by anything.

You need to see a doctor.  Not be looking for opinions.  It won’t solve the problem and will likely confuse you. 

[LikeItHot]

Possibly a mild ear infection. Squirt a mix or vinegar and hydrogen peroxide in your ears for a few days when you shower but keep all water out and no swimming.

[LikeItHot]

2 hours ago, charliebadenhop said:

I had cancer last year, and I am now cancer free!

 

My last radiation treatment was 10 months ago, but my throat is still a bit swollen (I had throat cancer). The swelling causes my hearing to be a bit off and I need to "clear" my ears several times a day like I am landing in a commercial plane.

 

Last month I started getting dizzy spells and the doctor wound up saying, after a LOT of tests that it is my swollen throat that is the main cause...

 

Just saying...

My doctor told me once dizziness is almost always ear nose throat related.  We get our balance from fluid sensors in our ears.  However, that was not the cause for me that time. I had forgotten that I had been on a cruise the days leading up to the dizziness and it was lingering sea legs causing the issue.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, swm59nj said:

I have had Vertigo for years.  And yes I can have headaches with it.  And I have been treated by doctors and given tests to rule out anything else.  
I can tell you yes it’s probably just vertigo. But I won’t because I’m not a doctor.  And vertigo  is a general symptom that can be caused by anything.

You need to see a doctor.  Not be looking for opinions.  It won’t solve the problem and will likely confuse you. 

Vertigo is a symptom not a cause or disease. OP has vertigo with headache. 

 

When accompanied by headache in the absence of alcohol or drug use,  vertigo  is usually related to blood pressure/ heart, dehydration or  blood sugar; much less frequently (unless history of head trauma) it can signal  a neurological issue (which should show up on neuro exam).  Also rarely it can signal severe anemia (which would show on blood test) but in that case would not be limited to first thing in morning. 

 

Vertigo without headache or other signs is indeed usually related to inner ear. 

[couchpotato]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Vertigo is a symptom not a cause or disease. OP has vertigo with headache. 

 

When accompanied by headache vertigo  is usually related to blood pressure/ heart, dehydration or  blood sugar; much less frequently (unless history of head trauma) it can signal  a neurological issue (which should show up on neuro eam). 

Thanks for the info Sheryl.

What type of Neuro exam would be required, or what would the Neurologist be expected to do/check. Plus any other related tests.  Thank you.

[Neeranam]

Feeling better now, and suspect it was hydration more than anything else. Going to get the blood tests anyway to hopefully rule out some conditions. 

Still slightly light-headed when getting out of bed and wondering if I should stop the first thing I do in the morning, which is diving into my pool. I did put ear drops in my ears, maybe it has something to do with swimmer's ear.  

 

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Feeling better now, and suspect it was hydration more than anything else. Going to get the blood tests anyway to hopefully rule out some conditions. 

Still slightly light-headed when getting out of bed and wondering if I should stop the first thing I do in the morning, which is diving into my pool. I did put ear drops in my ears, maybe it has something to do with swimmer's ear.  

 

 Swimmer's ear is a problem of the outer, not inner, ear and would nto cause vertigo. In addition,  you would  have pain and redness in the outer ear.

 

Dehydration/electrolyte imbalance  could well have been the culprit. In this climate one has to be very careful to not only be adequately hydrated but to replace electrolytes (sodium, potassium etc) after sweating.

 

Have you done as advised and checked your BP first thing in the morning before and after standing up? What were the results?

 

Ditto heart rate?

[d4dang]

Pee py ha Mor krup

[Neeranam]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:51 AM, Sheryl said:

 Swimmer's ear is a problem of the outer, not inner, ear and would nto cause vertigo. In addition,  you would  have pain and redness in the outer ear.

 

Dehydration/electrolyte imbalance  could well have been the culprit. In this climate one has to be very careful to not only be adequately hydrated but to replace electrolytes (sodium, potassium etc) after sweating.

 

Have you done as advised and checked your BP first thing in the morning before and after standing up? What were the results?

 

Ditto heart rate?

Haven't done the blood pressure as didn't buy the thing as last doctor's visit was 132/?.

Pulse about 40 rising to 64-70 when standing. Send to go back to 40 quickly on lying down again. Sw

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Haven't done the blood pressure as didn't buy the thing as last doctor's visit was 132/?.

Pulse about 40 rising to 64-70 when standing. Send to go back to 40 quickly on lying down again. Sw

As previously advised you should get a BP machine. Omron brand (type that wraps around the arm nto wrist) is good.

 

When you say pulse 40 is that counting for a full minute? And after you have been standing for a while (say at least 30 minutes) what does the heart rate stabilize at?

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

As previously advised you should get a BP machine. Omron brand (type that wraps around the arm nto wrist) is good.

 

When you say pulse 40 is that counting for a full minute? And after you have been standing for a while (say at least 30 minutes) what does the heart rate stabilize at?

OK, will do.

 

Actually, did it again - 45 when lying down. After a while standing, seems to be around 75-80. 

[Neeranam]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:45 AM, Sheryl said:

As previously advised you should get a BP machine. Omron brand (type that wraps around the arm nto wrist) is good.

 

When you say pulse 40 is that counting for a full minute? And after you have been standing for a while (say at least 30 minutes) what does the heart rate stabilize at?

Thanks for the reply, Sheryl. 

 

I bought a machine to measure blood pressure and got the following results this morning when rising. 

First time blood pressure was 121/81, pulse 43 in bed, changing to 102/81, pulse 69 when standing.

 

I then lay down again and did the same but this time standing for longer. 

In bed -  110/71 - 43

Standing - 99/77 - 85

after 5 min - 93/77 - 75

after 10 min - 95/79 - 86

after 15 min - 94/83 = 95

 

I never did longer as I started to feel faint and nauseous. 

 

Hypotension?

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks for the reply, Sheryl. 

 

I bought a machine to measure blood pressure and got the following results this morning when rising. 

First time blood pressure was 121/81, pulse 43 in bed, changing to 102/81, pulse 69 when standing.

 

I then lay down again and did the same but this time standing for longer. 

In bed -  110/71 - 43

Standing - 99/77 - 85

after 5 min - 93/77 - 75

after 10 min - 95/79 - 86

after 15 min - 94/83 = 95

 

I never did longer as I started to feel faint and nauseous. 

 

Hypotension?

You appear to gave some kind of  hemodynamic instability. Possibly secondary to an arrythmia or other cardiac problem.

 

A drop in BP and rise in heart rste upon standing up is common but should be very brief. Certainly should not last 15 minutes. Nor should you feel faint and nauseus. And, your pulse pressure (difference between top and bottom numbers) is way too low which, if accurate, is also a sign of cardiac problem.

 

You should take these readings to a good  cardiologist as soon as possible.  Will need an EKG, rhythm strip (like EKG but longer) and likely an echocardiogram.  Definitely something is wrong. 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

You appear to gave some kind of  hemodynamic instability. Possibly secondary to an arrythmia or other cardiac problem.

 

A drop in BP and rise in heart rste upon standing up is common but should be very brief. Certainly should not last 15 minutes. Nor should you feel faint and nauseus. And, your pulse pressure (difference between top and bottom numbers) is way too low which, if accurate, is also a sign of cardiac problem.

 

You should take these readings to a good  cardiologist as soon as possible.  Will need an EKG, rhythm strip (like EKG but longer) and likely an echocardiogram.  Definitely something is wrong. 

Thanks Sheryl.