Electric car fire: Week-old million baht vehicle ignites in Udon Thani mall

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

As the EVs get older, I wouldn't be surprised to hear of them having a generator in the boot.

As EV's get older, I wouldn't be surprised to see ICE vehicles being driven by luddites.

[daveAustin]

18 hours ago, rbkk said:

The charging station was installed by Thai's. If that is to blame, BYD, I'm guessing, could sue for shedding bad light on their brand.

Is this a case of quickly getting the blame everyone else in there because you know as soon as people read the title they’re typically gonna be thinking ‘Chinese is it?’ 

[Henryford]

Buy You Die (BYD) cars are bursting into fire all over China.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Henryford said:

Buy You Die (BYD) cars are bursting into fire all over China.

Or they aren't.

 

Stats?

[kwak250]

What did BYD stand for?

 

Burn your dreams? Something like that !

[Longwood50]

Let see, you can't mail anything with a battery in it and no you can't pack lithium powered AA batteries in your luggage or bring too large a power bank on board the plane.  However, lets push for electric cars with batteries weighing between 600 and 900 kilos and have them drive through tunnels and across bridges.  Better yet have them parked next to your home.  I am waiting for one of these to happen while parked inside a high rise building.  Not that it can't happen with gasoline powered cars but extinquishing the fire from an electric car is far more difficult.  They burn hotter and water does not put the fire out. 

[kennw]

19 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'm expecting to see a lot more of these incidents as more and more people buy these Chinese EV's. 

 

I wonder how insurance premiums will be affected. I can't imagine it's a cheap fix once you car has burnt out.

Looks like a Level 3 charging station, the new owner maybe did not know the charging rate the vehicle could accept. Some EVs have in car setting also on the charging station. My guess the owner set the fastest (highest kW setting) thus shortest charging time, this along with the low (10%) battery level maybe exceeded the safe charging rate. To avoid battery problems car makers recommend recharge when down to 20% and the up to 80% thus effective 60% of "rated" battery capacity. I will stick with my Diesel car for a few more years, 1000km plus range.  

[patman30]

but but but
last month AN members said this never happens anymore

everyone comparing stats,
what are the numbers for ICE cars Combusting when parked with the engine turned off, writing the car off?
not just "a fire" which could be small or easily fixed, but where the car is written off while parked.

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, kennw said:

Looks like a Level 3 charging station, the new owner maybe did not know the charging rate the vehicle could accept. Some EVs have in car setting also on the charging station. My guess the owner set the fastest (highest kW setting) thus shortest charging time, this along with the low (10%) battery level maybe exceeded the safe charging rate. To avoid battery problems car makers recommend recharge when down to 20% and the up to 80% thus effective 60% of "rated" battery capacity. I will stick with my Diesel car for a few more years, 1000km plus range.  

Are you sure?  I have never heard that, the car is what controls the charging rate by two-way communication with the CS.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Muhendis said:

I won't happen to my EV......... There. Done.

It already did ........... 100 in one go ........

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/golf-cart-fleet-goes-up-in-flames-at-thai-army-academy/

Edited September 5, 2023 by BritManToo

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

but but but
last month AN members said this never happens anymore

everyone comparing stats,
what are the numbers for ICE cars Combusting when parked with the engine turned off, writing the car off?
not just "a fire" which could be small or easily fixed, but where the car is written off while parked.

I don't have the stats, but it's actually quite common, here's an article Causes of a parked car fire (leamastech.com)

 

Common causes of parked car fire

1. Wiring fault

Electrical cables that are exposed can have contact with each other, create a short circuit (bridge) and cause fire. This is more likely when cables of opposite charge (+ve and -ve) bridge together. They heat up immediately and begin to burn.

 

2. Hot exhaust

An exhaust that is very hot and close to the ground can ignite dry leafs or papers. The probability of exhaust causing fire is higher when the catalytic converter is blocked. A blocked catalytic converter can glow red hot and have very high temperature that can easily ignite papers and leafs.

 

3. Engine oil leakage

Engine oil on a very hot engine is a recipe for fire disaster especially if the oil is diluted with fuel. When a car is parked after being driven, it does not get the continuous cooling from the cooling system and after a while, the engine becomes very hot. This is why some vehicles have after-run cooling function such that after the engine has been turned off, the cooling fan still runs and the coolant still circulate for few minutes.

 

4. Sabotage

This is when someone deliberately sets fire on the car with the intention to punish or harm the car owner. Cases like this have been heard in the past and are still possibly happening.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

interesting numbers!

how do you get the result 3.3 years? shouldn't it be 33.3 years? 

thanks for the clarification ...

 

 

The stats quote list 5 EV fires per 1.6 billion km or 1 fire per 320,000,000 EV vehicle driven km.

320,000,000 km/fire/(12,000 vehicles x 8,000 km/vehicle/year) = 3.3 year/fire 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It already did ........... 100 in one go ........

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/golf-cart-fleet-goes-up-in-flames-at-thai-army-academy/

I can't see any evidence it was the batteries that caught fire.  It did say the firefighters carefully removed the batteries to prevent fire.

[Muhendis]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I can't see any evidence it was the batteries that caught fire.  It did say the firefighters carefully removed the batteries to prevent fire.

Apologies if you didn't notice it, but my picture was a lead acid battery powered milk float not a golf cart.

 

Yeah I've heard about the golf cart fires too. This is one of the reasons why I use lead carbon batteries for my solar ESS.

[kennw]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

As EV's get older, I wouldn't be surprised to see ICE vehicles being driven by luddites.

If you buy an EV just to save running cost OK, if because you support environment issues in Thailand then forget it, only 16% of electricity here is from renewable sources, so EV's contribute to increased power demand and thus fossil fuel demand. 

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The stats quote list 5 EV fires per 1.6 billion km or 1 fire per 320,000,000 EV vehicle driven km.

320,000,000 km/fire/(12,000 vehicles x 8,000 km/vehicle/year) = 3.3 year/fire 

Two issues with that, firstly, the average mileage done by a passenger car in Thailand is almost 12,000 per year (11,936 source: f (atransociety.com)

 

And secondly, you are assuming BYD will sell no more Atto 3 when actually the sales volume is accelerating, within your 3.3 years there will probably be 4-5 times that number of Atto 3's on the road.

 

Let's say, the average is 3 times the number of cars you quoted and the mileage is 50% more, there should be one fire approximately every 8 months.

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Apologies if you didn't notice it, but my picture was a lead acid battery powered milk float not a golf cart.

 

Yeah I've heard about the golf cart fires too. This is one of the reasons why I use lead carbon batteries for my solar ESS.

I remember the golf cart fires being reported when it happened, the original article did say it had Lithium batteries, I am not sure how true it is.

 

The fire could have been caused by a short circuit in the 220v supply, we don't know what caused it.

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, kennw said:

If you buy an EV just to save running cost OK, if because you support environment issues in Thailand then forget it, only 16% of electricity here is from renewable sources, so EV's contribute to increased power demand and thus fossil fuel demand. 

Many of us running EV's have solar power to charge them.

 

There were no green virtue signaling reasons that I bought EV's, it was down to running cost and superior driving experience.

[patman30]

15 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't have the stats, but it's actually quite common, here's an article Causes of a parked car fire (leamastech.com)

 

Common causes of parked car fire

1. Wiring fault

Electrical cables that are exposed can have contact with each other, create a short circuit (bridge) and cause fire. This is more likely when cables of opposite charge (+ve and -ve) bridge together. They heat up immediately and begin to burn.

 

2. Hot exhaust

An exhaust that is very hot and close to the ground can ignite dry leafs or papers. The probability of exhaust causing fire is higher when the catalytic converter is blocked. A blocked catalytic converter can glow red hot and have very high temperature that can easily ignite papers and leafs.

 

3. Engine oil leakage

Engine oil on a very hot engine is a recipe for fire disaster especially if the oil is diluted with fuel. When a car is parked after being driven, it does not get the continuous cooling from the cooling system and after a while, the engine becomes very hot. This is why some vehicles have after-run cooling function such that after the engine has been turned off, the cooling fan still runs and the coolant still circulate for few minutes.

 

4. Sabotage

This is when someone deliberately sets fire on the car with the intention to punish or harm the car owner. Cases like this have been heard in the past and are still possibly happening.

and how many of these result in the car being written off?
oh you don't have any numbers......????‍♂️
so quite common you don't ever hear about it....????‍♂️

1. this would likely be discovered easily especially with newer cars, i have had wiring faults
2. ignites dry leaves, that is not the car catching
3. most modern cars have after-run cooling
4. obviously not the car
completely irrelevant comment TBH, no stats and just drivel for you to reinforce your belief

[fallup88]

19 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'm expecting to see a lot more of these incidents as more and more people buy these Chinese EV's. 

 

I wonder how insurance premiums will be affected. I can't imagine it's a cheap fix once you car has burnt out.

Yes it’s expensive to fix as the battery is part of the chassis. In heavy accidents, it’s usually just written off.

 

I read on Thai forums someone had slight damage on the underside of the car, the dealer had to replace the whole battery pack costing around 300,000 baht.

[kennw]

19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Are you sure?  I have never heard that, the car is what controls the charging rate by two-way communication with the CS.

It depend on how "smart" the charging station/car is. Level 3 stations should always be outside. They have the potential for DC rapid charge. (eg Tessler). Some cars though cannot accept high charging rates. The car fire in question, red plate, seems maybe the new owner did not read the manual (maybe it was in Chinese) 555   

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Two issues with that, firstly, the average mileage done by a passenger car in Thailand is almost 12,000 per year (11,936 source: f (atransociety.com)

 

And secondly, you are assuming BYD will sell no more Atto 3 when actually the sales volume is accelerating, within your 3.3 years there will probably be 4-5 times that number of Atto 3's on the road.

 

Let's say, the average is 3 times the number of cars you quoted and the mileage is 50% more, there should be one fire approximately every 8 months.

EVs drive 50-70% of the yearly milage ICE does, so the 8,000 km/year is a fair number.

 

The number of BYDs on the road will of course have to be averaged out and that is tricky when they are selling like hot bananas ????.

A newly registered BYD will only add the 8,000 km after a year, so it is also a good approximation to use 6 month old sales numbers.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35498794/ev-owners-low-mileage-study/

[patman30]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Many of us running EV's have solar power to charge them.

Off grid solar?
or still dependant on the dirty fossil fueled grid?

[kennw]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I remember the golf cart fires being reported when it happened, the original article did say it had Lithium batteries, I am not sure how true it is.

 

The fire could have been caused by a short circuit in the 220v supply, we don't know what caused it.

If it was Level 3 charging station the minimum power supply required is three phase 450V. The station rectifies the AC input and supplies DC to the car.

Level 2 stations home use, personal charging etc, use 240 V and is rectified to DC in car.   

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, fallup88 said:

Yes it’s expensive to fix as the battery is part of the chassis. In heavy accidents, it’s usually just written off.

 

I read on Thai forums someone had slight damage on the underside of the car, the dealer had to replace the whole battery pack costing around 300,000 baht.

I wouldn't fancy driving them through the BKK floods either, which are a regular occurence in wet season.

 

Given the batteries are normally located at the centre bottom of the car. 

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

and how many of these result in the car being written off?
oh you don't have any numbers......????‍♂️
so quite common you don't ever hear about it....????‍♂️

1. this would likely be discovered easily especially with newer cars, i have had wiring faults
2. ignites dry leaves, that is not the car catching
3. most modern cars have after-run cooling
4. obviously not the car
completely irrelevant comment TBH, no stats and just drivel for you to reinforce your belief

I don't have stats for how many fires resulted in the vehicle being written off

1. 1 Wiring Faults, this is one of the "leading causes of car fires" that was the title of the article so clearly people DID NOT discover them.
2. 2 Igniting dry leaves is the car catching fire if it spreads to the car (no hot exhaust on an EV)
3. 3 Most cars do not have after run cooling for the engine oil quoted in the article, most oil pumps are mechanically driven from the crankshaft, if there is any cooling it's from the electric radiator fan, which one can postulate would fan the flames.
4. 4 I agree relevant, but still a leading cause of parked car fires.

 

 

 

[kennw]

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Many of us running EV's have solar power to charge them.

 

There were no green virtue signaling reasons that I bought EV's, it was down to running cost and superior driving experience.

So then you would have a Level 2 charging facility, slower but much safer. But maybe the superior driving experience you mention means you stop more often for coffee or just do less stressful short trips

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Off grid solar?
or still dependant on the dirty fossil fueled grid?

My system is grid-tied but I run as close to nett zero metering as I can, usually my bill is 60-80 baht and on average bill without solar would be circa 8,300 baht for me.

[kennw]

7 minutes ago, patman30 said:

Off grid solar?
or still dependant on the dirty fossil fueled grid?

So solar panels, battery storage, $$$ but cheaper running cost?

[herfiehandbag]

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The reality is any vehicle presents an extremely minor risk of combustion when something goes wrong or it is involved in an accident etc...   

 

This vehicle was simply parked up and charging. If that can lead to it catching fire without any other source, then that is an issue, to be fair, yes?

Edited September 5, 2023 by herfiehandbag