Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[quake]

8 minutes ago, mokwit said:

They will push the onus of proof onto us, and in a format specified by them.

Yes I agree. that's exactly how they will do it.

They may even link it to visa extensions.

What a massive Cluster Duck it will all be.

if they ever get it up and running.

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, quake said:

Yes I agree. that's exactly how they will do it.

They may even link it to visa extensions.

What a massive Cluster Duck it will all be.

if they ever get it up and running.

 

 

They just want to collect tax from Thais working/earning overseas.

Nothing to do with expats.

[quake]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They just want to collect tax from Thais working/earning overseas.

Nothing to do with expats.

Maybe, Maybe not.

Early days. I would say.

[farmerjo]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They just want to collect tax from Thais working/earning overseas.

Nothing to do with expats.

I don't know what sort of technology the revenue department use.

Having recently set up  TIN here it was easy enough.

The next step of finding a local english speaking Thai accountant in rural Thailand

will prove the difficult part.

[FruitPudding]

They have a funny way of shooting themselves in the foot, don't they?

 

I suspect there will be less sick buffaloes being taken care of in Thailand's future.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, zombie nights said:

I presume when the new regulations come into force they cannot now claim I am liable to  pay back taxes?

Dangerous to presume where the taxman is concerned!

[jacko45k]

44 minutes ago, mokwit said:

They will push the onus of proof onto us, and in a format specified by them.

Yes, guilty until you can prove otherwise with that lot!

[JonnyF]

59 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

You're giving them way too much credit. They can't even keep track of expats residing at the same address, whom are annually extended (some providing a map!), every 90-day reported, excessive copies of address, in need of countless certicates of residence for every little thing, home visits...and a smartcar❗????

 

So they can't possibly ever keep track of tens of thousands of ATM transactions by every foreigner...some residents, some not...and then track those transactions back to precisely the correct resident...whom they've already lost track of, despite their endless reporting requirements, countless copies and certificates. They're a joke. Inept and incapable. 

Yes I doubt they could track that either. How would they even know that it was me? They would know that someone with my name had withdrawn money from a bank in the UK from a Thai ATM but there could be loads of people with the same name as me, could have been a tourist with the same name. So first off they'd have to contact all the Thai banks and check if anyone with my name had made withdrawals from foreign accounts using their ATM machines - but they still couldn't be sure it was me. My bank in the UK doesn't have my current passport number to confirm it is the same person and I would think client confidentiality would prevent my UK bank releasing details about me (date of birth etc.) to a bank in a foreign country. 

 

Failing that, I could just send money from my UK account to my Thai gf's account and she could withdraw it and hand it over to me. Or are they going to tax Thais on money received as a gift from foreigners?

 

Given the number of foreigners and the number of financial transactions involved, it would be a massive undertaking. They can't even copy my name correctly from my driving licence into the computer when I renew my Por Lor Bor so tracking my ATM withdrawals from foreign banks that refuse to release any information about me would be a tough one.  

 

[lordgrinz]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

They will push the onus of proof onto us, and in a format specified by them.

 

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, guilty until you can prove otherwise with that lot!

This is exactly what I expect, and even if that is all this is, it will still be a <deleted>show! Just another hurdle and pile of paperwork to keep the monkeys at the IO looking like they are doing anything of value.

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Yes I doubt they could track that either. How would they even know that it was me? They would know that someone with my name had withdrawn money from a bank in the UK from a Thai ATM but there could be loads of people with the same name as me, could have been a tourist with the same name. So first off they'd have to contact all the Thai banks and check if anyone with my name had made withdrawals from foreign accounts using their ATM machines - but they still couldn't be sure it was me. My bank in the UK doesn't have my current passport number to confirm it is the same person and I would think client confidentiality would prevent my UK bank releasing details about me (date of birth etc.) to a bank in a foreign country. 

 

Failing that, I could just send money from my UK account to my Thai gf's account and she could withdraw it and hand it over to me. Or are they going to tax Thais on money received as a gift from foreigners?

 

Given the number of foreigners and the number of financial transactions involved, it would be a massive undertaking. They can't even copy my name correctly from my driving licence into the computer when I renew my Por Lor Bor so tracking my ATM withdrawals from foreign banks that refuse to release any information about me would be a tough one.  

 

This is where I think my Pink ID comes in handy, it has my name in both Thai and English and they actually use my Pink ID number on the license, not my Passport number. Even my bank account at SCB is linked to the Pink ID. My wife uses that Pink ID for almost everything, renewing insurance for me, medical, etc,

[NanLaew]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:26 AM, jonny on the spot said:

Morning all,

Imagine this scenario, i live in ะhailand retirement visa for years.

I sell a house in London, previously used as an income stream from rental

The resulting 40 mil Baht i want here in Thailand, in a lump or dribs and drabs it matters not.

Does this become taxable? And at what rate?

Is there any benefit in getting it here before January 1?

If you're in Thailand for more than 180 days, yes it's taxable at a rate commensurate with how much it is. No real benefit in getting it in your Thai bank account early as far as I can see.

[bamnutsak]

47 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Failing that, I could just send money from my UK account to my Thai gf's account and she could withdraw it and hand it over to me. Or are they going to tax Thais on money received as a gift from foreigners?

Yes, they will.

 

The ATM hack seems good. Have to factor in the 150 - 220 THB fee, and while I get reimbursed for that, my bank may become testy if I start making five withdrawals each month.

 

I think all Thais will be subject to some mandatory withholding at the bank (remitted to the revenue dept.) on any/all inbound foreign-sourced remittances. And any remittances will only be cleared based on a registered tax no., and possible in-person clearance.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by bamnutsak

[Skeptic7]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Failing that, I could just send money from my UK account to my Thai gf's account and she could withdraw it and hand it over to me. Or are they going to tax Thais on money received as a gift from foreigners?

This is something I thought about also. But since they are supposedly targeting all income, not just foreigners, suspect they will be trying to tax Thais too, even the poor. They have zero problem or issues in further oppressing their citizens. Despite their BS, this is not to narrow wealth inequality...but rather another greedy money grab to fatten the already obese and corrupt coffers/grifters in charge. Very little, if any, will ever trickle down to the poor and needy. The government leaders and elite will further prosper. 

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

This is something I thought about also. But since they are supposedly targeting all income, not just foreigners, suspect they will be trying to tax Thais too, even the poor. They have zero problem or issues in further oppressing their citizens. Despite their BS, this is not to narrow wealth inequality...but rather another greedy money grab to fatten the already obese and corrupt coffers/grifters in charge. Very little, if any, will ever trickle down to the poor and needy. The government leaders and elite will further prosper. 

Yes they may do, although personally I doubt it. But as many of our partners either do not work or work but don't pay tax, given the tax rates below I'm thinking it would be a good way to get the first 300,000 in for (worst case scenario) only 7500 tax.

 

Or 500,000 for (again, worst case) 27,500 tax.

 

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Yes I doubt they could track that either. How would they even know that it was me? They would know that someone with my name had withdrawn money from a bank in the UK from a Thai ATM but there could be loads of people with the same name as me, could have been a tourist with the same name. So first off they'd have to contact all the Thai banks and check if anyone with my name had made withdrawals from foreign accounts using their ATM machines - but they still couldn't be sure it was me. My bank in the UK doesn't have my current passport number to confirm it is the same person and I would think client confidentiality would prevent my UK bank releasing details about me (date of birth etc.) to a bank in a foreign country. 

 

Failing that, I could just send money from my UK account to my Thai gf's account and she could withdraw it and hand it over to me. Or are they going to tax Thais on money received as a gift from foreigners?

 

Given the number of foreigners and the number of financial transactions involved, it would be a massive undertaking. They can't even copy my name correctly from my driving licence into the computer when I renew my Por Lor Bor so tracking my ATM withdrawals from foreign banks that refuse to release any information about me would be a tough one.  

 

A lease on record for a certificate of residence? That has the rent in it right there. Did you pay tax on it?

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

A lease on record for a certificate of residence? That has the rent in it right there. Did you pay tax on it?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you replying to the correct post?

 

But either way I don't rent - I own my condo. And bringing that money into Thailand to buy it 8 years ago looks to be quite a good move if they do actually go ahead with this crazy idea as has been proposed.

[jaideedave]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

You're giving them way too much credit. They can't even keep track of expats residing at the same address, whom are annually extended (some providing a map!), every 90-day reported, excessive copies of address, in need of countless certicates of residence for every little thing, home visits...and a smartcar❗????

 

So they can't possibly ever keep track of tens of thousands of ATM transactions by every foreigner...some residents, some not...and then track those transactions back to precisely the correct resident...whom they've already lost track of, despite their endless reporting requirements, countless copies and certificates. They're a joke. Inept and incapable. 

555 my sentiments exactly.Total incompetence in regards to all you say.Multiple paper trails for my address and I,ve lived in exactly the same house sine 2007. Proof of address to do most anything.Ridiculous to think for 1 minute they can track random ATM  withdrawals and actually follow up. 

Inept and incapable is being way too kind.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Yes they may do, although personally I doubt it. But as many of our partners either do not work or work but don't pay tax, given the tax rates below I'm thinking it would be a good way to get the first 300,000 in for (worst case scenario) only 7500 tax.

 

Or 500,000 for (again, worst case) 27,500 tax.

 

 

Right on. Good plan. I already have substantial funds here and have just this morning transferred another tidy chunk. Will move more before year end if this starts looking worst case and especially if the USD continues gaining against THB. Already easily have 4-5 years of living on what's already here. Then starting when THB funds get low, will only move the bare minimum as needed. No more excess "free" money for Thailand wasting away in a crappy Thai bank. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Skeptic7

[RafPinto]

Thailand wants to be the "HUB" of everything.

F.ex.: Health Hub

Imagine the following:

 

A rich Arab (I see them always in private hospitals) decides to come to Thailand for a major surgery and it will take a few surgeries over a period of, let's say 7-12 months.

Surgery plus and all other expenses go into a the millions. Again, let's say 5million Baht.
As he/she stays over 180 days, they will be tax residents and for the honour of spending 5 million Baht, they have to pay heavy taxes.

Forget about this Thailand.
You will lose more then you gain.

Edited September 21, 2023 by RafPinto

[jaideedave]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They just want to collect tax from Thais working/earning overseas.

Nothing to do with expats.

I have a tendency to think like you in this case.I've lived in the same house here since 2007. They have to ask me where I live every 90 days and annually for my Visa extension.. It would be an administrative nightmare for even an advanced country to track ATM withdrawals. How would that work exactly? If a tourist goes to withdraw some dosh for a night out would he be subject to some tax hit? Imagine the foreign press getting a whiff of that news. 

[JimTripper]

54 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you replying to the correct post?

 

But either way I don't rent - I own my condo. And bringing that money into Thailand to buy it 8 years ago looks to be quite a good move if they do actually go ahead with this crazy idea as has been proposed.

I’m not sure if I have the correct post. I don’t care about buying condo’s.

 

But either way they know if I’m taking money out of the atm if I have a certificate of residence.

[El Matador]

People here are now inventing an imaginary ATM income tax.

 

Calm down a bit. The lack of details is frustrating but it is far from that at the moment.

[James Roderick]

I work part-time in the Marshall  Islands and in PNG. My earnings are fully taxed in both these countries - although the tax rates in PNG are punitive. Neither of these out-of-the way places has a double tax agreement with Thailand. So it looks like  the Thai government wants its  share of my dwindling earnings.  In PNG the tax rate is about 40 %. I understand the Thai government will claim another 30 %. So, my options are to pay 70 % in tax,  give-up work or move to the Philippines.    Tomorrow, I will start learning Taglog !!! 

[bamnutsak]

It is quite telling that Prime Minister Srettha, who is also the Minister of Finance (and thus head of the Revenue Department) dropped this deuce on the country right before high-tailing it out to New York City for eight days.

 

His failure to communicate on this proposal borders on dereliction of duty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by bamnutsak

[Billpro785]

I have spoken to my accountant , a former US IRS agent and for American Expats like myself, this means nothing. As the US, and Thailand  have a tax treaty and I file US taxes every year, this will not affect me in any way. 

I would suggest the US Expats here go to the IRS website and read the tax treaty between the states and Thailand. 

According to my accountant, this was done to encourage business investments in Thailand, not to nickel and dime the expats. 

And you know that any US expats that have  more than 10K USD in Thai Baht in a Thai bank, The bank reports that to the IRS as well. 

[JackGats]

15 hours ago, david555 said:

A small visit to Phnomh Pehn or Sihanoukville before the 6 months "stay Thailand " kicks in could be a solution ....

 

Just a thought for some

No. It's 6 months within 1 fiscal year, not 6 months in a row.

[El Matador]

22 minutes ago, JackGats said:

No. It's 6 months within 1 fiscal year, not 6 months in a row.

The conversations are moving from "How can I stay the whole year in Thailand?" to "How can I stay less than 180 days in Thailand?. ????

Edited September 21, 2023 by El Matador
grammar

[JimTripper]

 

41 minutes ago, JackGats said:

No. It's 6 months within 1 fiscal year, not 6 months in a row.

You could always take a mini van back and forth every month ????

[david555]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

A small visit which would need to be in excess of 169  days?

Small visit as small distance ...... was meant like that ....

 

But literally you are right

[Geir Rasch]

On 9/19/2023 at 1:16 PM, thaibreaker said:

You are just saying there is no 180 days rule, but in the same sentence confirming it. Seriously? Or was it the 183 (call it a typo) you were thinking about? 

 

As explained by the one I asked, you must individually compare what your tax will be in both countries. A tax from my pension, of 65.000 baht, which is very low all considered (the percentage of income is by choice for now, from 62), is in Norway 1.7 percent. That is my reality, you obviously have a different income, and so another reality. I was only comparing to the table shown in this thread, where the same income results in 20 percent tax in Thailand. That's a huge difference for me, and if I have to pay that, I can't afford living in Thailand on 65.000 baht.

 

As said, the people I know don't go through it by choice. Because they have nothing to gain from it.

But good for you if your income is a lot higher, but I still don't understand how you only can pay under 10 percent tax, in Thailand. It does not align with the table shown in this thread. 

You obviously don’t understand much about tax, and you have some reading issues. I never said there is no 180 days rule, I wrote there is no 183 days rule. Do you see the difference?
Thai tax is like norwegian tax, progressiv. There is also deduction for age, care of children and also for wife if she does not have income. If you are single and 65 years old or older, only income over 500k will be taxed. 
To get as low as 1,7% tax in Norway means that you are not voluntary member of nav.
If your income is 65k a month and you are singlr, do not have other deduction than age, your average tax to Thailand would be app. 2,6%.