Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

How could Hamas end this tomorrow? Move to Lebanon? What do you recommend they do when Israel establishes the next settlement? Nothing?

 

As far as I know, Israel has not asked for Hamas surrender. They have vowed to wipe Hamas out, exactly what they are accusing Hamas of saying for decades.

How could Hamas end this tomorrow?

As far as I know, Israel has not asked for Hamas surrender.

 

Easy, release the hostages and surrender, it really is that simple. Yet you come on here again not having done any research first. 

 

On a near daily basis Israel officials state this clearly when being interviewed, here just one link, plenty more:

 

"Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip will end with the surrender of Hamas leaders and the return of hostages, an Israeli spokesman said on Thursday.

“The war in Gaza can end on the condition that Hamas leaders surrender themselves to the Israeli army and the prisoners are returned,” Ofir Gendelman, a spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, told reporters."

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/gaza-war-to-end-with-hamas-surrender-israel/3076229

 

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Shame on you @Morch

 

Shame on you @Neeranam not once have I seen you call for Hamas to release the hostage to commence a ceasefire. Hamas could end all the sufferings tomorrow:

 

"This could be over tomorrow if Hamas got out of the way of civilians - instead of hiding behind them - if it put down its weapons, if it surrendered. And what there ought to be...is a call on behalf of the entire world for Hamas to do just that."

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Update, figure now up to 7,000

 

The IDF says it has killed 7,000 Hamas members or allied terrorists as it seeks to destroy the terror group, free the hostages, and ensure such an attack can never occur again.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-to-hamas-terror-operatives-dont-die-for-sinwar-surrender-now/

[Wobblybob]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I saw the vdo of this vile israeli soldier vandalising a Palestinian shop on Al Jazeera, so I checked it out, and it's true. Not alone by any means, and plenty of sites about israeli vandalism on internet. Absolutely despicable behaviour, and filmed by the soldiers themselves.

 

The VDO is in the linked article

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231209-outrage-over-israeli-soldier-vandalising-gaza-gift-shop/

Outrage over Israeli soldier vandalising Gaza gift shop

The emergence of a video showing Israeli soldier vandalising a gift shop in Gaza has sparked widespread outrage. This act of vandalism adds to the already grave situation in Gaza, marked by significant destruction and the reported killing or expulsion of local residents.

Have you found any evidence of Israeli soldiers cutting pregnant Palestinian women open and extracting the unborn fetus or any beheading of civilians, perhaps raping men and women then shooting them. 😠😡

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I saw the vdo of this vile israeli soldier vandalising a Palestinian shop on Al Jazeera, so I checked it out, and it's true. Not alone by any means, and plenty of sites about israeli vandalism on internet. Absolutely despicable behaviour, and filmed by the soldiers themselves.

 

The VDO is in the linked article

 

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231209-outrage-over-israeli-soldier-vandalising-gaza-gift-shop/

Outrage over Israeli soldier vandalising Gaza gift shop

The emergence of a video showing Israeli soldier vandalising a gift shop in Gaza has sparked widespread outrage. This act of vandalism adds to the already grave situation in Gaza, marked by significant destruction and the reported killing or expulsion of local residents.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Such things happen in wars. This was covered on Israeli media as well. Not that it should be condoned, but in reality, it's a nothing burger. A handy deflection.

[placeholder]

I may have missed it but I noticed that no defender of the Gaza invasion has acknowledged the fact that Israel blockaded Gaza on the basis that Hamas controlled the government  while it actually assisted Qatar in distributing in the material support of that same government. In other words, Israeli policy was to keep Hamas in power. At least that was the policy until Oct 7.

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I may have missed it but I noticed that no defender of the Gaza invasion has acknowledged the fact that Israel blockaded Gaza on the basis that Hamas controlled the government  while it actually assisted Qatar in distributing in the material support of that same government. In other words, Israeli policy was to keep Hamas in power. At least that was the policy until Oct 7.

Discussed extensively 8 weeks ago in Israel at War Part I just ask mojo, he'll tell you.....lol

 

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces 8 October 2023

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Discussed extensively 8 weeks ago in Israel at War Part I just ask mojo, he'll tell you.....lol

 

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

But the point is, the people of Gaza are being punished for the deeds of Hamas. Maybe if Hamas hadn't been shielded from the consequences of its corruption, it would have fallen long since. It kind of vitiates the argument that the Gazans have only themselves to blame for the actions of Hamas, doesn't it?

Edit: Also, the details from the NY Times article show how deeply implicated Israel was in supporting Hamas.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

But the point is, the people of Gaza are being punished for the deeds of Hamas. Maybe if Hamas hadn't been shielded from the consequences of its corruption, it would have fallen long since. It kind of vitiates the argument that the Gazans have only themselves to blame for the actions of Hamas, doesn't it?

 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Discussed extensively 8 weeks ago in Israel at War Part I just ask mojo, he'll tell you.....lol

 

 

[placeholder]

That NY Times article was published 8 weeks ago. I could have sworn it was just a few days ago. It was known in a general way, but not how intimately involved Israel was in supporting Hamas. And I never saw a moral argument in that time that addressed the issue of blaming the Gazans for the continuation of Hamas.

"But the point is, the people of Gaza are being punished for the deeds of Hamas. Maybe if Hamas hadn't been shielded from the consequences of its corruption, it would have fallen long since. It kind of vitiates the argument that the Gazans have only themselves to blame for the actions of Hamas, doesn't it?

 24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Discussed extensively 8 weeks ago in Israel at War Part I just ask mojo, he'll tell you.....lol"

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

That NY Times article was published 8 weeks ago. I could have sworn it was just a few days ago. It was known in a general way, but not how intimately involved Israel was in supporting Hamas. And I never saw a moral argument in that time that addressed the issue of blaming the Gazans for the continuation of Hamas.

"But the point is, the people of Gaza are being punished for the deeds of Hamas. Maybe if Hamas hadn't been shielded from the consequences of its corruption, it would have fallen long since. It kind of vitiates the argument that the Gazans have only themselves to blame for the actions of Hamas, doesn't it?

 24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Discussed extensively 8 weeks ago in Israel at War Part I just ask mojo, he'll tell you.....lol"

 

 

No, the point it that's this has all been discussed already..........yawn

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No, the point it that's this has all been discussed already..........yawn

You've got nothing.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

You've got nothing.

Exactly because I'm done discussing it 8 weeks ago.......lol

 

Feel free to ask someone else about it

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Exactly because I'm done discussing it 8 weeks ago.......lol

 

Feel free to ask someone else about it

I wasn't aware that when I posted this again, I was asking you. You jumped in.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I wasn't aware that when I posted this again, I was asking you. You jumped in.

You didn't ask me but this happens to be a public forum. 

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

You didn't ask me but this happens to be a public forum. 

Participation is not compulsory. You jumped in and then asked me to ask someone else. When I hadn't addressed you in the first place.

[placeholder]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Trolling is also not compulsory

Nor is imagining that you're a moderator.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

Nor is imagining that you're a moderator.

I know the rules. I don't need to imagine anything

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Trolling is also not compulsory and you missed that I informed you this was discussed 8 weeks ago to which you asked me yet again

As for missing things, it wasn't known how intimately Israel was involved in the funding of Hamas back then. So it's not a issue of just vague "support for Hamas" anymore, but the fact that among other things, Israel enabled Hamas to be funded to the tune of 30 million dollars per month.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

As for missing things, it wasn't known how intimately Israel was involved in the funding of Hamas back then. So it's not a issue of just vague "support for Hamas" anymore, but the fact that among other things, Israel enabled Hamas to be funded to the tune of 30 million dollars per month.

Back to asking me then? OK. Same reply. I am done with this subject. It's been done. Ask somebody else or stop the baiting.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Back to asking me then? OK. Same reply. I am done with this subject. It's been done. Ask somebody else or stop the baiting.

I didn't ask you anything.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, placeholder said:

I didn't ask you anything.

🥱

[Neeranam]

Addressing the Doha Forum, Ayman Safadi says Israel’s operation in Gaza meets the ‘legal definition of genocide’.

 

Jordan’s foreign minister says Israel aiming ‘to empty Gaza of its people’

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/10/jordan-foreign-minister-says-israel-aiming-to-empty-gaza-of-its-people

[ozimoron]

12 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Israel is not creating settlements in Gaza.

 

And, yes, eliminating Hamas is the optimal solution for the people of Gaza.

 

Do you have any credible evidence that some of the people in Gaza are not pro Hamas?

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

How could Hamas end this tomorrow?

As far as I know, Israel has not asked for Hamas surrender.

 

Easy, release the hostages and surrender, it really is that simple. Yet you come on here again not having done any research first. 

 

On a near daily basis Israel officials state this clearly when being interviewed, here just one link, plenty more:

 

"Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip will end with the surrender of Hamas leaders and the return of hostages, an Israeli spokesman said on Thursday.

“The war in Gaza can end on the condition that Hamas leaders surrender themselves to the Israeli army and the prisoners are returned,” Ofir Gendelman, a spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, told reporters."

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/gaza-war-to-end-with-hamas-surrender-israel/3076229

 

 

Shame on you @Neeranam not once have I seen you call for Hamas to release the hostage to commence a ceasefire. Hamas could end all the sufferings tomorrow:

 

"This could be over tomorrow if Hamas got out of the way of civilians - instead of hiding behind them - if it put down its weapons, if it surrendered. And what there ought to be...is a call on behalf of the entire world for Hamas to do just that."

 

 

How many Palestinians do you think imagine that Israel might pursue a 2 state solution, stop the settlements even as a starting point were they to surrender?

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

How many Palestinians do you think imagine that Israel might pursue a 2 state solution, stop the settlements even as a starting point were they to surrender?

How many Palestinians would settle for a two state solution?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you have any credible evidence that some of the people in Gaza are not pro Hamas?

Israel goal is to go after Hamas active participants, not everyone that supports them. Obviously not everyone in Gaza supports Hamas. It's an absurd question. 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Addressing the Doha Forum, Ayman Safadi says Israel’s operation in Gaza meets the ‘legal definition of genocide’.

 

Jordan’s foreign minister says Israel aiming ‘to empty Gaza of its people’

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/10/jordan-foreign-minister-says-israel-aiming-to-empty-gaza-of-its-people

They can say what they like, but it doesn't actually. 

The Hamas charter "Kill all Jews" does clearly indicate genocidal intentions.

The intention of Israel is to stop Hamas -- and why wouldn't it be?

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

How many Palestinians would settle for a two state solution?

You should ask Hamas. But hopefully not for much longer. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You should ask Hamas. But hopefully not for much longer. 

It's not only Hamas.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's not only Hamas.

Well no obviously but in Gaza they still hold 75% support according to latest polls after the 7th Oct. But I get your point