Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[ozimoron]

Just now, asf6 said:

The IDF policy seems to be that if you have not left Gaza, you will be viewed as a terrorist, the implication being that you will be killed. 

 

GAZA, Oct 22 (Reuters) - Palestinians said they had received renewed warnings from Israel's military to move from north Gaza to the south of the strip, with the added warning that they could be identified as sympathisers with a "terrorist organisation" if they stayed put.

The message was delivered in leaflets marked with the Israel Defense Forces name and logo from Saturday and sent to people via mobile phone audio messages across the Gaza Strip, a narrow territory that is just 45 km (28 miles) long.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-tells-gazans-move-south-or-risk-being-seen-terrorist-partner-2023-10-22/

 

According to these war criminals being a "sympathizer" makes one a legitimate target. How repugnant.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Well I'll give it a go...........

 

But first I will state that the attacks on Israeli civillians on 7th October were horrific and the work of animals.  But let's be clear here, those attacks were committed by Hamas. They were not committed by Palestinian Civillians.

 

So, returning to war crimes committed by Israel - since the start of this war, Israel has been accused of the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians.  Israel have used as their reasoning that such civillians are actually the victims of Hamas who force 'collateral damage' through hiding amongst the population.  The Israelis also made out that Hamas sited their weapons storage and other infrastructure in public buildings and schools. Even that Hamas had a major heaquarters in the Al Shifa hospital.  The photos I've seen, provided by the Israelis after the capture the Al Shifa showed a handful of weapons, some clothing and, I think, one laptop - hardly a headqaurters.

 

I have never believed that the Israelis were taking much care of where they were bombing or have any particular care for Palestinian civillians.  That conviction was totally justified last week when Israeli soldiers shot dead 3 Israeli citizens who were un-armed and waving a white flag.  If they have no care for anyone waving a white flag, what hope do Palestinians have?

 

The Israelis actions are both indefensible and futile.  The amount of 'collateral damage' has been stated as far higher than that in any other war and what do they think they are currently creating in Gaza?  They may well defeat Hamas but just how do they think the remaining Palestinians will regard them?

 

Their actions are creating a force far bigger than Hamas ever was from people who won't care - what have they got to lose? Unless the rest of the world steps in they have no future.  Prior to this the Israeli right wing regarded Palestinians as little more than dogs - how will they treat them once they are defeated?  What do such actions breed?

 

From the start of the conflict the Israelis have ordered the Palestinians to move from one area to another and then shelled the area they told people to move to.  They did exactly that again last week when they told some Palestinians to move to Rafah City then bombed it the next day.

 

Although it is in no way an excuse for the 7th October attrocities, the Israeli government's behaviour over the last few years has been a huge contributory factor in the situation that lead to the current situation. Even as I write, Israeli 'settlers' are stealing Palestinian farms and land in the West Bank and shooting Palestinians.  As the UN's Anthony Guterrez said  - this situation was not created out of a vacuum.  In 2015 Netanyahu stated that there will never be a Palestinian State and has repeated that several times since - last week he said it will never happen. That cannot stand and neither can Hamas's intent to destroy Israel continue.

 

Like many, I have always believed that any solution to the decades old conflict in Israel/Palestine must include the disolution of groups such as Hamas but Israel must also get rid of its right wing government and stop encouraging the stealing of land. Both sides must recognise each other's right to exist.

 

My overall concern at the moment is the huge amount of Palestinians being killed by Israel's attacks every day. There is no and can be no - excuse for what is going on at the moment. Its not collateral damage, its slaughter.

 

So War Crimes:

• Indiscriminate bombing of civillian buildings/homes
• Shooting of unarmed Palestinian civillians
• Shooting of unidentified/unarmed people waving white flags
• Failing to allow adequate humanitarian aid to some areas
• Failing to allow sufficient humanitarian aid overall
• Deliberate turning off of water supplies
• Carrying out military operations in refugee camps

They will, I have no doubt, add to that list as time moves on.  I am also sure that Hamas have also committed War Crimes but that wasn't your question.

To that you can add destroying infrastructure such as desalination plants and sewage systems, attacking ambulances, killing identified health staff and journalists, attacking hospitals and schools, destroying bakeries, denying fuel, water and food.

Plenty more as well.

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To that you can add destroying infrastructure such as desalination plants and sewage systems, attacking ambulances, killing identified health staff and journalists, attacking hospitals and schools, destroying bakeries, denying fuel, water and food.

Plenty more as well.

Yes, the list is almost endless - and all blamed on the attacks of 7th October.

[asf6]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To that you can add destroying infrastructure such as desalination plants and sewage systems, attacking ambulances, killing identified health staff and journalists, attacking hospitals and schools, destroying bakeries, denying fuel, water and food.

Plenty more as well.

 

Also: 

 

A French Foreign Affairs Ministry official was killed by an Israeli bombardment in Gaza on Saturday. 

 

"It is with great sadness that the Ministry of Europe and Foreign Affairs has learned of the death of one of its agents, who died of injuries sustained during an Israeli bombardment in Rafah, in the south of the Gaza Strip," the ministry said in a statement published on Saturday. The French authorities also "demanded that the Israeli authorities shed full light on the circumstances of this bombardment as soon as possible."

"A dozen members of the family of one of our agents also died in the bombing."

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/12/18/french-foreign-affairs-ministry-official-killed-by-israeli-bombardment-in-gaza_6354377_4.html

 

 

[MangoKorat]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

According to these war criminals being a "sympathizer" makes one a legitimate target. How repugnant.

Given the treatment the Palestinians have received at the hands of the Israeli's. Who do they expect them to sympathise with?    To they best of my knowledge it is not against the law to sympathise with a terrorist organisation - misguided yes but in a lot of ways, its understandable. Note: Sympathise is not the same as Support.

 

I support the right of all people to live - be they Israeli or Palestinian. I hate to say it but I wonder just what the Israeli's would do if they weren't under such international pressure? It seems to me that given the chance, they would simply wipe the Palestinians of the face of the earth.

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

There are thousands of examples of that - just denied until they shot 3 of their own. Why defend the indiscriminate killing of thousands of people, including children.  You should hang your head in shame.

So moronic to read so much BS from a tragic incident of friendly fire. War is messy.

[MangoKorat]

7 minutes ago, asf6 said:

who died of injuries sustained during an Israeli bombardment in Rafah,

Yes the city that late last week the Israelis told people to go to, shortly before they shelled it.

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

According to these war criminals being a "sympathizer" makes one a legitimate target. How repugnant.

Like when the Hamas terrorist scum Murdered the Thai workers?

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

So moronic to read so much BS from a tragic incident of friendly fire. War is messy.

Tragic incident of friendly fire??  Have you read the reports?  The guys clearly were unarmed, they were also waving a white flag.  Two were shot ,one of them ran back inside the building and was heard shouting to the IDF in Hebrew - they then went in and shot him.  Friendly fire? What have you been smoking!!!!

 

The Israeli's don't deny any of the above by the way.

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Like when the Hamas terrorist scum Murdered the Thai workers?

Again and again and again...............yes HAMAS murdered Thai workers......NOT Palestinians - how can anyone be so stupid?

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Given the treatment the Palestinians have received at the hands of the Israeli's. Who do they expect them to sympathise with?  What Israel is doing at the moment is nothing short of Genocide.  To they best of my knowledge it is not against the law to sympathise with a terrorist organisation - misguided yes but in a lot of ways, its understandable. Note: Sympathise is not the same as Support.

 

I support the right of all people to live - be they Israeli or Palestinian. I hate to say it but I wonder just what the Israeli's would do if they weren't under such international pressure? It seems to me that given the chance, they would simply wipe the Palestinians of the face of the earth.

Funny.

That's the ideology of Hamas.

Murder all Jews.

Since 1948 the population of "Palestinian" Arabs has massively ballooned.

I think we all agree Israel is technologically advanced. If their intention was genocide they are mysteriously incredibly incompetent at it.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Tragic incident of friendly fire??  Have you read the reports?  The guys clearly were unarmed, they were also waving a white flag.  Two were shot ,one of them ran back inside the building and was heard shouting to the IDF in Hebrew - they then went in and shot him.  Friendly fire? What have you been smoking!!!!

 

The Israeli's don't deny any of the above by the way.

It was a mistake. 

[MangoKorat]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Funny.

That's the ideology of Hamas.

Murder all Jews.

Since 1948 the population of "Palestinian" Arabs has massively ballooned.

I think we all agree Israel is technologically advanced. If their intention was genocide they are mysteriously incredibly incompetent at it.

Yes..... HAMAS!!!

 

Israel is constrained by its US paymasters.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Again and again and again...............yes HAMAS murdered Thai workers......NOT Palestinians - how can anyone be so stupid?

That's why this is called the Hamas Israel war.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

Yes..... HAMAS!!!

 

Israel is constrained by its US paymasters.

Israel seems to mostly do whatever they want actually. But leave it to you to offer a simple minded theory.

[MangoKorat]

Just now, Jingthing said:

It was a mistake. 

Which time was it a mistake?  When they shot the first 2 that were waving a white flag or when they shot the third guy that ran inside and called out in Hebrew?

 

Do you understand the rules of engagement?  To be a target, a person has to be a clear threat to human life or infrastructure.  Did the Israeli's think they would get beaten to death by a white flag.  You're a total disgrace!

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's why this is called the Hamas Israel war.

BUT ITS PALESTINIAN CIVILLIANS THAT ARE BEING KILLED - AROUND 20,000 OF THEM!!!

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

BUT ITS PALESTINIAN CIVILLIANS THAT ARE BEING KILLED - AROUND 20,000 OF THEM!!!

Stop lying. 

Many were Hamas.

You're falling for their propaganda hook line and sinker.

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Stop lying. 

Many were Hamas.

You're falling for their propaganda hook line and sinker.

Not their propaganda - that of the UN, Doctors Without Frontiers and many other aid groups.  Ask them how many children have died.

 

Where do you get your info from?  Israel? 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Which time was it a mistake?  When they shot the first 2 that were waving a white flag or when they shot the third guy that ran inside and called out in Hebrew?

 

Do you understand the rules of engagement?  To be a target, a person has to be a clear threat to human life or infrastructure.  Did the Israeli's think they would get beaten to death by a white flag.  You're a total disgrace!

No you're a disgusting propagandist if you think the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages. I get it. Propagandists like you are trying to wildly blow up that horrible mistake into something universal instead of the type of thing that happens in all wars.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Listen, if the US told Israel to stop tomorrow - they'd stop.  However, that can't happen, Biden has a very thin line to tread - half the US congress is Jewish!!!

 

For someone with such 'humanist' views on other matters, you are totally misinformed and inhumane on this matter.  People can be wrong but when faced with clear evidence - accept your mistake.

Half the congress is Jewish huh?

Where did you hear that, Stormfront?

Oh I got it now.

You've outed yourself big time. 

You're just another Jew hater.

[asf6]

It's clear the IDF intentionally shot those three men. What's not clear is if they knew they were Israelis or believed them to be Palestinians. 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Not their propaganda - that of the UN, Doctors Without Frontiers and many other aid groups.  Ask them how many children have died.

 

Where do you get your info from?  Israel? 

Don't be so dumb.

They give a number and act like all are civilians when a significant percentage are Hamas.

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No you're a disgusting propagandist if you think the IDF intentionally shot Israeli hostages. I get it. Propagandists like you are trying to wildly blow up that horrible mistake into something universal instead of the type of thing that happens in all wars.

Jeez, how much did they need? Civillian clothes, unarmed, waving white flags - a mistake?  Why then did they shoot the third man? 

 

I don't think they deliberately shot hostages - they clearly thought they 3 men were Palestinian.

 

The Israelis say they are systematically moving forward and show videos of the IDF checking buildings out with binoculars.  Unarmed people shouting at them in Hebrew, what more did they need to take a moment and think?

 

I suggest you read the reports - the reports that Israel accept!

 

You'd argue black's white rather than admit you're wrong.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, asf6 said:

It's clear the IDF intentionally shot those three men. What's not clear is if they knew they were Israelis or believed them to be Palestinians. 

They felt threatened. There is zero evidence it is IDF policy to shoot surrenders. In real war real soldiers sometimes mess up.

[MangoKorat]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Half the congress is Jewish huh?

Where did you hear that, Stormfront?

Oh I got it now.

You've outed yourself big time. 

You're just another Jew hater.

Oh god, here we go again - on another thread I'm a gay hater, now I'm a jew hater.  I have no feelings either negative or positive towards jews.  I was simply pointing out the allegiance of much of the US government - which by the way is common knowledge.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Jeez, how much did they need? Civillian clothes, unarmed, waving white flags - a mistake?  Why then did they shoot the third man? 

 

I don't think they deliberately shot hostages - they clearly thought they 3 men were Palestinian.

 

The Israelis say they are systematically moving forward and show videos of the IDF checking buildings out with binoculars.  Unarmed people shouting at them in Hebrew, what more did they need to take a moment and think?

 

I suggest you read the reports - the reports that Israel accept!

 

You'd argue black's white rather than admit you're wrong.

Whatever happened was clearly a f up not reflecting IDF policy.

[asf6]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They felt threatened. 

It would be interesting to know exactly what they felt threatened by.  

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

They felt threatened. There is zero evidence it is IDF policy to shoot surrenders. In real war real soldiers sometimes mess up.

I repeat.......the second time - after the guy had run inside? Another mistake?

 

Wasted enough time on you.....adios.

[MangoKorat]

Just now, asf6 said:

It would be interesting to know exactly what they felt threatened by.  

Don't be silly......isn't everyone scared of white flags?