Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I was being a bit flip.

You may have noticed that the oppression fashionista River to the Sea crowd are now boycotting a head spinning number of companies for largely very questionable reasons. 

 

Back in the day Mrs. Morch was all for boycotting one of the nearby food-stalls. 

Problem was the guy being a master, and the food divine.

Didn't carry.

 

The extended family does boycott a certain famous restaurant, for owners' family involvement in pier disaster which claimed two of young ones.

 

I think it's more legit when it's personal.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So you think that overall, Americans support Israel about as much today as they did thirty years ago? 

 

No.

But this goes toward my original point - does it have much of an actual effect in realty?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Morch said:

 

No.

But this goes toward my original point - does it have much of an actual effect in realty?

 

If what you implied previously were true, all things the same, one would expect support for Israel to be growing as the population gets older, yet it seems to be diminishing.

 

As I said initially, it makes little difference now, but if the trend continues, I think it matters a lot. You don't. I hope you're right, 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Several of the usual suspects are completely unable to distinguish between comment on subject material and flames. They have no defence. While continuously posting Israeli propaganda without balance or nuance they invite push back. The push back I give them is to point out Israeli war crimes. The more I see this sort of behaviour the more I make it a point to post articles critical of Israel.

 

It's blindingly obvious that it is all one side of this argument doing the flaming and they are getting more and more strident.

I expect it from the usual suspects but can't see them. Morsch is getting worse with the flakes, not sure why. 

Interesting, it is only the Zionists doing the flaming, speaks volumes; they gang up on any opposition, forcing them away with constant flames, gas lighting etc, sad

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

 

If what you implied previously were true, all things the same, one would expect support for Israel to be growing as the population gets older, yet it seems to be diminishing.

 

As I said initially, it makes little difference now, but if the trend continues, I think it matters a lot. You don't. I hope you're right, 

 

 

 

 

OK, to put it more accurately - I think there will be a drop, I don't think it will be quite as dramatic long term.

But this is based on how things are now, Israel drifting more to the right, becoming more religious - that will take it's toll on USA public support.

In terms of actual support, the effects are slower and smaller.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I expect it from the usual suspects but can't see them. Morsch is getting worse with the flakes, not sure why. 

Interesting, it is only the Zionists doing the flaming, speaks volumes; they gang up on any opposition, forcing them away with constant flames, gas lighting etc, sad

How do you know if they're all on ignore? sad

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Morch said:

 

OK, to put it more accurately - I think there will be a drop, I don't think it will be quite as dramatic long term.

But this is based on how things are now, Israel drifting more to the right, becoming more religious - that will take it's toll on USA public support.

In terms of actual support, the effects are slower and smaller.

So, you blame the right, that makes sense. 

 

 

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, you blame the right, that makes sense. 

 

 

 

There is a gap between Israel's right wing positions and those of younger American voters.

It's a fact.

And since the right wing shift is not static, the gap could grow wider.

You want to call it 'blame', that's up to you.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

There is a gap between Israel's right wing positions and those of younger American voters.

It's a fact.

And since the right wing shift is not static, the gap could grow wider.

You want to call it 'blame', that's up to you.

What might that gap be with the right that has half of American kids supporting Hamas? 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Well said that man and in the Jewish Chronicle of all places not known for pulling their punches.

 

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/israel-is-losing-the-propaganda-war-to-hamas-unxjrttx

 

Those of us whose family members were Holocaust victims see Israel as a most important country, the legal, permanent and legitimate homeland for Jews. But I am sure that I speak for  my late parents in expressing extreme concern about the harrowing loss of innocent life and also of secure homes and freedoms in Gaza, when strategic and tactical alternatives are available. The Americans made many mistakes after 9/11, some of which are being repeated by Israel.

 

International Law supports Israel’s right to self-defence for its people and borders. The test of proportionality is complex and challenging. Israel might be broadly correct in its approach to the law. But it is not carrying public opinion in the countries with which it enjoys precious alliances. The propaganda war is not falling well for Mr Netanyahu, and many who wish to make  sympathetic arguments for Israel look forward to him being replaced soon by somebody with a more serious and palliative view of the future. Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear, nor will their sense of injustice if there is not an urgent new sense of a different realism for the future.

 

When asked “what comes next?” we need to see some vision for repair and conciliation. At present all we can do is look down at our feet in embarrassment.

[Yellowtail]

36 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well said that man and in the Jewish Chronicle of all places not known for pulling their punches.

 

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/israel-is-losing-the-propaganda-war-to-hamas-unxjrttx

 

Those of us whose family members were Holocaust victims see Israel as a most important country, the legal, permanent and legitimate homeland for Jews. But I am sure that I speak for  my late parents in expressing extreme concern about the harrowing loss of innocent life and also of secure homes and freedoms in Gaza, when strategic and tactical alternatives are available. The Americans made many mistakes after 9/11, some of which are being repeated by Israel.

 

International Law supports Israel’s right to self-defence for its people and borders. The test of proportionality is complex and challenging. Israel might be broadly correct in its approach to the law. But it is not carrying public opinion in the countries with which it enjoys precious alliances. The propaganda war is not falling well for Mr Netanyahu, and many who wish to make  sympathetic arguments for Israel look forward to him being replaced soon by somebody with a more serious and palliative view of the future. Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear, nor will their sense of injustice if there is not an urgent new sense of a different realism for the future.

 

When asked “what comes next?” we need to see some vision for repair and conciliation. At present all we can do is look down at our feet in embarrassment.

So, surrender to hamas?

 

 

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So, surrender to hamas?

 

 

Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear

Are there any Palestinians left? I thought you and Kuhn Scotty said Israel has been committing genocide since 1948, no?

[Yellowtail]

Former State Department official who resigned over U.S. arming Israel speaks to Joy Reid (msnbc.com)

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Are there any Palestinians left? I thought you and Kuhn Scotty said Israel has been committing genocide since 1948, no?

Bingo.

Thier population has boomed massively. 

Apparently, Jews are really quite crap at committing genocide.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

Oct 7 happened but it didn't start this war. Stop the childish nonsense.

 

This was in AUGUST, 2022 by Human Rights Watch.

 

Israeli authorities doubled down on their severe repression of Palestinians. Israeli authorities’ practices, undertaken as part of a policy to maintain the domination of Jewish Israelis over Palestinians, amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.   

 

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/israel-and-palestine-0

There is a blatant and obvious campaign to try and make everything about October 7, and suppress everything that went on for many decades prior to it.

It as though the israelis were the most loving and hospitable hosts to a people that had willingly given up their land so the zionists could live in peace and love with their new neighbours. Then out of nowhere, the nasty Hamas decided one day for no reason at all to go and cause mayhem to the peaceful and hospitable hosts.

Well, the occupants of the land were actually not happy about it and have had to be suppressed and oppressed ever since 1948, and the israelis have apparently been living in fear, given by the militarisation of the zionist state.

Chickens and coming home to roost come to mind.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a blatant and obvious campaign to try and make everything about October 7, and suppress everything that went on for many decades prior to it.

It as though the israelis were the most loving and hospitable hosts to a people that had willingly given up their land so the zionists could live in peace and love with their new neighbours. Then out of nowhere, the nasty Hamas decided one day for no reason at all to go and cause mayhem to the peaceful and hospitable hosts.

Well, the occupants of the land were actually not happy about it and have had to be suppressed and oppressed ever since 1948, and the israelis have apparently been living in fear, given by the militarisation of the zionist state.

Chickens and coming home to roost come to mind.

 

How many more Jews have to die before you're happy? 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Strained relationships and a decrease in political support on the global stage.

Economically, the loss of support has also been felt. Some nations and businesses have reconsidered or altered their trade and investment relationships with Israel in response to concerns about human rights abuses and violations of international law.

Israel is facing isolation in certain international forums(and even Aseannow ) .

Decisions at the United Nations and other multilateral institutions have at times been less favorable to Israel due to the erosion of support. One could also cite Amnesty INternational and other Human Rights groups that I've mentioned previously.

Culturally, there has been an impact as well, with increased calls for academic and cultural boycotts. Various artists, academics, and intellectuals have chosen to distance themselves from Israeli institutions as a form of protest against the government's policies.

 

If I recall correctly, there have been many resolutions against israel in the UN, but all were vetoed by the US, which IMO has been covering for the zionists bad behaviour since 1948.

[Yellowtail]

There is a blatant and obvious campaign to try and make everything about anything but October 7, and suppress much of what went on in the previous decades and everything that happened before 1948.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I recall correctly, there have been many resolutions against israel in the UN, but all were vetoed by the US, which IMO has been covering for the zionists bad behaviour since 1948.

Yeah, the same UN that pays to have palestinian children taught to hate Jews.

 

I think the UN needs to be moved to Turkey. 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The concept of "mowing the lawn" implies a cyclical and repetitive nature to the conflicts, with a pattern that suggests a lack of sustainable solutions to the underlying issues. One could argue that a more nuanced and diplomatic approach is needed to address the root causes of the conflict and prevent the recurrent suffering of the Gazan civilian population.

IMO the israelis want to cause the suffering of the Gazans, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

 

The israelis are not stupid and they know the effect their campaigns against and illegal ( under humanitarian law ) blockade of Gaza have on the population, but have done nothing to mitigate it.

 

http://www.nzlii.org/nz/journals/UOtaLawTD/2011/14.html

On September 27, 2010, the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) published its fact- finding report. While the primary purpose of this report was to collate testimony and establish the facts surrounding the incident 11, the HRC also gave its opinion on several legal issues. According to the HRC, the blockade around Gaza is illegal under international law

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the israelis want to cause the suffering of the Gazans, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

 

The israelis are not stupid and they know the effect their campaigns against and illegal ( under humanitarian law ) blockade of Gaza have on the population, but have done nothing to mitigate it.

 

http://www.nzlii.org/nz/journals/UOtaLawTD/2011/14.html

On September 27, 2010, the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) published its fact- finding report. While the primary purpose of this report was to collate testimony and establish the facts surrounding the incident 11, the HRC also gave its opinion on several legal issues. According to the HRC, the blockade around Gaza is illegal under international law

 

IMO the palestinians want to cause the eradication of the Jews, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

nternational Law supports Israel’s right to self-defence for its people and borders. The test of proportionality is complex and challenging. Israel might be broadly correct in its approach to the law. But it is not carrying public opinion in the countries with which it enjoys precious alliances. The propaganda war is not falling well for Mr Netanyahu, and many who wish to make  sympathetic arguments for Israel look forward to him being replaced soon by somebody with a more serious and palliative view of the future. Palestine and Palestinians will not disappear, nor will their sense of injustice if there is not an urgent new sense of a different realism for the future.

The propaganda war is not falling well for Mr Netanyahu,

 

IMO not only is it not "falling well", but it's failing 100% except in the case of israeli apologists.

He's not doing well, with apparently a large segment of the Jewish israeli population against him for various reasons, several neighbouring countries very "annoyed" with him, probably the entire Arab citizenry of israel against him, definitely all the Palestinians against him ( even his tame puppy Abbas has muttered something he shouldn't have ), and now the once upon a time ignoring people's of the world are turning to support Palestinians against the israeli war machine.

 

It'll be interesting to see how long he survives past the end of this tragic conflict.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

IMO the palestinians want to cause the eradication of the Jews, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

It's quite clear that the majority do want Israel abolished, the Jews gone, and for the Palestinians to do their River to the Sea dance for eternity. But Israel isn't going anywhere. Of course if they were to succeed, for the Jews to be gone from Israel that would mean genocide of Jews of those that refuse to flee. 

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the israelis want to cause the suffering of the Gazans, so why would they want a more nuanced and diplomatic approach?

 

The israelis are not stupid and they know the effect their campaigns against and illegal ( under humanitarian law ) blockade of Gaza have on the population, but have done nothing to mitigate it.

 

http://www.nzlii.org/nz/journals/UOtaLawTD/2011/14.html

On September 27, 2010, the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) published its fact- finding report. While the primary purpose of this report was to collate testimony and establish the facts surrounding the incident 11, the HRC also gave its opinion on several legal issues. According to the HRC, the blockade around Gaza is illegal under international law

That's an opinion piece by HRC, the actual UN have made a ruling its legal but of course you would not like to know that.

 

The United Nations itself, in the Secretary-General’s Panel of Inquiry report of 2011 concerning the Mavi Marmara incident from the previous year, found that Israel’s Gaza blockade is legal under international law. “Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza,” determined the UN inquiry, headed by Sir Geoffrey Palmer, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand.

https://unwatch.org/item-7/claim/claim-6-israels-blockade-of-gaza-is-illegal

[Yellowtail]

It's nice that leftists are able to blame Netanyahu as if but for he and the right, things would be different, and Israel would be at peace with the Palestinians. 

 

Clearly Palestinians want to kill Jews because they are not progressive enough. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just published. Undeniable evidence and multiple verified accounts of Hamas brutal rape on October 7th. Most of this is far to graphic to post here. Horrific and a difficult read. Hamas deliberately used rape and sexual mutilation as a tactic of war. It’s so much worse than you think.

 

 

Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.

The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.

https://archive.ph/7tF0P

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

 

Tamed down version here:

 

NYT report details weaponization of sexual violence during Oct. 7 terror onslaught

The two-month investigation included interviews with more than 150 witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers, rape counselors and government officials along with the scanning of video footage, photographs and GPS data from cell phones.

NYT says it identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls were apparently sexually abused or mutilated and those the paper interviewed described finding the bodies of more than 30 women around the Re’im rave site.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/nyt-report-details-weaponization-of-sexual-violence-during-oct-7-terror-onslaught/

 

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The israelis are not stupid and they know the effect their campaigns against and illegal ( under humanitarian law ) blockade of Gaza have on the population, but have done nothing to mitigate it.

The $64,000 question is 'why are they allowed to break international law' ?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

The $64,000 question is 'why are they allowed to break international law' ?

I have my theories, but as they would be described as conspiracies I won't post them on here.

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is a blatant and obvious campaign to try and make everything about October 7, and suppress everything that went on for many decades prior to it.

It as though the israelis were the most loving and hospitable hosts to a people that had willingly given up their land so the zionists could live in peace and love with their new neighbours. Then out of nowhere, the nasty Hamas decided one day for no reason at all to go and cause mayhem to the peaceful and hospitable hosts.

Well, the occupants of the land were actually not happy about it and have had to be suppressed and oppressed ever since 1948, and the israelis have apparently been living in fear, given by the militarisation of the zionist state.

Chickens and coming home to roost come to mind.

Indeed, Israel have been committing war crimes since 1948.

It's a pathetic lie how some say this war started on Oct 7.

 

 

In February, Amnesty International released a 280-page report showing how Israel was imposing an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it exercised control over their rights, fragmenting and segregating Palestinian citizens of Israel, residents of the OPT and Palestinian refugees denied the right of return. Through massive seizures of land and property, unlawful killings, infliction of serious injuries, forcible transfers, arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement, and denial of nationality, among other inhuman or inhumane acts, Israeli officials would be responsible for the crime against humanity of apartheid, which falls under the jurisdiction of the ICC.¹

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/