Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Biden is still approving money to be allocated to Israel for the purchase of weapons and munitions.  That in itself makes Biden guilty of war crimes when he knows that Israel will use them to kill and maim anyone in Gaza as well as the West Bank.  

 

   Those are not war crimes though , they are legitimate acts of war 

[Hanuman2547]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Those are not war crimes though , they are legitimate acts of war 

Not when you are targeting women, children, and other non-combatants.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hanuman2547 said:

Not when you are targeting women, children, and other non-combatants.

 

Their best argument is that the civilians were told to leave so it's their own fault if they didn't. All good.

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, Hanuman2547 said:

Not when you are targeting women, children, and other non-combatants.

 

   Israel are targeting Hamas though , Israel have asked all the citizens , woman and children to go and stay in a safer area , ergo Israel are not targeting them .

    Once again , this has been discussed numerous times before in various threads 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

They could have used that but it wouldn't be true.

 

   Read the report and you will find that it would be true because that is what 
Biden said 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Read the report and you will find that it would be true because that is what 
Biden said 

 

I quoted Biden's statements directly and showed how they varied from Israeli policy.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I quoted Biden's statements directly and showed how they varied from Israeli policy.

 

 

   If you read the article in question , how come you didn't see the quotes from Biden that I quoted and you then claimed them to be untrue ?

   Something doesn't add up 

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   If you read the article in question , how come you didn't see the quotes from Biden that I quoted and you then claimed them to be untrue ?

   Something doesn't add up 

 

Whaa doesn't add up is that you haven't quoted a single word from Biden in this thread so I'm utterly confused.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

They could have used that but it wouldn't be true. While the US did veto the ceasefire resolution, Biden did call for one previously. Moreover, Biden has said that there has to be a 2 state solution and that's a position currently at odds with Israel.

"In a statement, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel had received the "full backing" of the US for its ground war and its goal of destroying Hamas and recovering hostages.

 

 

"Israel's security can rest on the United States, but right now it has more than the United States. It has the European Union, it has Europe, it has most of the world," he told donors to his 2024 re-election campaign in Washington."

 

 

    Those two sentences are in the report above  , so it would have been true 

 

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67294334

Now read my post again and address what I said

[ozimoron]

As president of the United States, Biden cannot afford to back Israel’s total freedom of action in Gaza. He cannot assume that Israeli aims fully coincide with those of the United States. As Biden himself had noted, this is the most extreme government in Israel’s history, with prominent Jewish supremacist ministers whose stated aims conflict with both U.S. interests and values and seek an opportunity to expel Palestinians from what they see as the land of Israel, including Gaza.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/bidens-dangerous-stance-on-the-war-in-israel-and-gaza/

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Now read my post again and address what I said

 

is this about the semantics of "cease fire" vs "pause"?

[coolcarer]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

is this about the semantics of "cease fire" vs "pause"?

No

12 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Now read my post again and address what I said

 

[still kicking]

Israel-Hamas war: ‘Significant change’ as US and Israel left increasingly isolated | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

[Stargeezr]

The leadership of Hamas have to be considered war criminals as well, and arrested and jailed in what ever country they live.

  Without leadership of support, Hamas would not exist for too many more months. When I see the fighting are men

on TV in Palestine, I wonder how many of them are wounded Hamas fighters being taken to a hospital?

After all where do they all go when they are injured?

[Stargeezr]

That should be fighting aged wounded men.

[Stargeezr]

The leadership of Hamas have to be considered war criminals as well, and arrested and jailed in what ever country they live.

  Without leadership of support, Hamas would not exist for too many more months. When I see the fighting are men

on TV in Palestine, I wonder how many of them are wounded Hamas fighters being taken to a hospital?

After all where do they all go when they are injured?

[thaibeachlovers]

Here is a poll to give Biden nightmares. This is from Harvard, not Fox or CNN.

 

https://nypost.com/2023/12/16/news/majority-of-americans-18-24-think-israel-should-be-ended-and-given-to-hamas/

A majority of young Americans said they believe Israel should “be ended and given to Hamas,” according to a shocking poll.

The survey, conducted THIS WEEK by Harvard-Harris polling, found 51% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 said they believed the long-term answer to the Israel-Palestinian conflict was for “Israel to be ended and given to Hamas and the Palestinians.”

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, still kicking said:

Israel-Hamas war: ‘Significant change’ as US and Israel left increasingly isolated | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

Good news. Expect it to get better.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

The leadership of Hamas have to be considered war criminals as well, and arrested and jailed in what ever country they live.

  Without leadership of support, Hamas would not exist for too many more months. When I see the fighting are men

on TV in Palestine, I wonder how many of them are wounded Hamas fighters being taken to a hospital?

After all where do they all go when they are injured?

and you are going to volunteer to go get them from those countries, I have to assume.

They are not hanging out in countries that are just going to hand them over, are they!

Do you expect other people to do what you will not?

 

Try to keep up about the hospitals. Most of them have been removed from service by the israelis and if the ones left operating dared to treat a Hamas fighter the israelis would use that as an excuse to bomb them- you know they want to, don't you?

They probably have facilities underground to treat their wounded.

[WDSmart]

Yes, Israel now has shown it is no better (or worse) than the Hamas terrorists. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Here is a poll to give Biden nightmares. This is from Harvard, not Fox or CNN.

 

https://nypost.com/2023/12/16/news/majority-of-americans-18-24-think-israel-should-be-ended-and-given-to-hamas/

A majority of young Americans said they believe Israel should “be ended and given to Hamas,” according to a shocking poll.

The survey, conducted THIS WEEK by Harvard-Harris polling, found 51% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 said they believed the long-term answer to the Israel-Palestinian conflict was for “Israel to be ended and given to Hamas and the Palestinians.”

Why? The poll confirms the majority of Americans support Israel, its only that one age group who have split views

 

“These individuals siding with evil over democracy should be a wake-up call,” Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kansas) told The Post. “Ideological rot among young Americans, driven by woke values and victim culture, has gotten so bad they’ve convinced themselves to sympathize with actual terrorists who hate America,”

 

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

This is not my war .

Before oct.7th , I had more sympathies for the palestinian side , because they were more on the defensive side from the continued Israeli aggression . Stones against machine guns ...

The atrocities Hamas committed on the 7th somehow changed this .

This is a story about dominance and revenge .

This time Israel wants Hamas destroyed and disappeared . They will continue to bomb Gaza until there is no place left for Hamas to hide .

Hamas will hide and reorganize elsewhere ...

Thousands of dead civilians do not seem to disturb either side .

Violence leads to more violence , there is no definite winner in this war .

Only losers .

Israel loses support and builds up a solid reputation for being a racist , aggressive regime that does not care about ' collateral damage " .

Hamas shows what atrocities radicalized muslims are able and ready to do . ( Rape , murder , mutilations of women )

All in all there will be nothing good that comes out of this war . Only losers .

 

It is depressing that , in a time where scientists are making huge discoveries about the interconnectivity of everything   , there are still people on this planet who kill each other . For what ?

 

Sad and primitive .

 

 

[stevenl]

On 12/13/2023 at 3:22 PM, Bkk Brian said:

You were not the only one to make such obvious comments weeks ago, much of the media and even key players in this war did as well. However you are the first to revisit it to try and make a point.

No, the thread is doing that.

Defending Israel I understand, denying facts I don't.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, the thread is doing that.

Defending Israel I understand, denying facts I don't.

? Weird post, try addressing my content next time

[Purdey]

How many wars did not have civilian deaths? No one likes to see this. 

Remember Arthur 'Bomber' Harris? No one likes what he did. Was he wrong Firebombing civilians? 

Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed thousands of civilians. Was that wrong? 

I wish Israel would cut the heads off Hamas leadership instead of bomb civilians. Their top three leaders supposedly live in luxury in Qatar with $11billion in wealth. What about them? 

 

[pacovl46]

Love it! Now stop financially supporting them, too, and let's see how far they're gonna get then. They love to play the victim, but they've become the oppressor a long time ago and they are equally as much to blame for what's going on there as Hamas.

 

Having said that, as long as Hamas resorts to terrorist means they'll never get global support amd I'll never understand how they can feed their own people to the wolves like that! 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Love it! Now stop financially supporting them, too, and let's see how far they're gonna get then. They love to play the victim, but they've become the oppressor a long time ago and they are equally as much to blame for what's going on there as Hamas.

 

Having said that, as long as Hamas resorts to terrorist means they'll never get global support amd I'll never understand how they can feed their own people to the wolves like that! 

 

   The USA aid to Israel is about 2 % of their GDP and the USA aid money gets spent back in the USA

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Having said that, as long as Hamas resorts to terrorist means they'll never get global support amd I'll never understand how they can feed their own people to the wolves like that! 

Thirty years of oppression hasn't produced any results positive for Palestinians, and the rest of the world has ignored them.

The rest of the world isn't ignoring them now. Perhaps Hamas thought sacrificing some Palestinians was better than living under occupation for ever. However, I suppose they thought the response would be like every time before, and didn't expect the wholesale destruction of Gaza and the indiscriminate bombing killing so many. By the time they realised, it was too late.

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thirty years of oppression hasn't produced any results positive for Palestinians, and the rest of the world has ignored them.

The rest of the world isn't ignoring them now. Perhaps Hamas thought sacrificing some Palestinians was better than living under occupation for ever. However, I suppose they thought the response would be like every time before, and didn't expect the wholesale destruction of Gaza and the indiscriminate bombing killing so many. By the time they realised, it was too late.

What oppression would that be in Gaza? The Jews left in 2005.

The bottom line is that the Palestinians backed the wrong horse since 1948. Lost successive wars also by backing the losing side (Arab League etc). So they are now screwed. Better that they come to terms with it and make peace with the victor. Numerous deals were offered, but all rejected.  They need to give up the idea of returning to their previous land, because it is a non-starter.  
 

It would be a simple start to say, "OK, we give up on the idea of killing all of you".  Then some serious negotiations could take place. But until that point, they are doomed.