Two New Zealand Men Arrested in Phuket for Alleged Brutal Assault on Traffic Cop

[richard_smith237]

57 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

it is very relevant. 

 

100% agree,.....   what happened in the build up is absolutely relevant as it creates context....

 

Thats not to defend the NZ Guys at all...   But neither am I condemning on the 'thin information' that is present.

 

What they did is clearly wrong (taking the gun off a Police officer), but with context it may be shown that it was absolutely necessary. 

 

Of course, we don't and can't possibly know that without more factual information....   the issue of course is that I'm not sure what factual information exists...

 

 

.... People thin on critical consciousness want to blame the NZ Guys as that fits their ideal that a confrontational situation such as this could never happen to them, it makes them feel safer and that is an overwhelming impression that impacts the unconscious bias. 

 

Thats not to suggest the NZ guys are innocent or that they are not solely to blame... but I do suggest that those so quick to condemn them suffer a degree of cerebral myopathy that hinders critical thought. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mania]

2 hours ago, Startmeup said:

They didn't hurt the cop whatsoever they disarmed an aggressor, that's what happened. 

Can't say I disagree 😉 

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, mania said:

3 hours ago, Startmeup said:

They didn't hurt the cop whatsoever they disarmed an aggressor, that's what happened. 

Can't say I disagree 😉 

 

If we are being fair, we don't know that the Police officer was 'an aggressor'...     

 

... there's a lot of language being used in this story that highlights bias...  

... Aggressor, victim, subdued, attacked, controlled etc... 

 

 

As voyeurs to this story, all we do know is that one NZ Guy disarmed a Thai policeman...   We don't know if the policeman had become an aggressor in the eyes of the NZ guys (and reasonable opinion) by that point, or if the NZ acted with idiotic oversight. 

 

 

... a lot of the argument and debate on this forum revolves around what we can see and interpret...   There is a strong argument to suggest there is a lot more to this story than is reported. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20 by richard_smith237

[zakalwe]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If we are being fair, we don't know that the Police officer was 'an aggressor'...     

 

... there's a lot of language being used in this story that highlights bias...  

... Aggressor, victim, subdued, attacked, controlled etc... 

 

 

As voyeurs to this story, all we do know is that one NZ Guy disarmed a Thai policeman...   We don't know if the policeman had become an aggressor in the eyes of the NZ guys (and reasonable opinion) by that point, or if the NZ acted with idiotic oversight. 

 

 

... a lot of the argument and debate on this forum revolves around what we can see and interpret...   There is a strong argument to suggest there is a lot more to this story than is reported. 

 

 

 

 

Sure, there is a lot of speculation on what happened. The most important thing is hard evidence. The prosecution has a video and at least 2 Thai eyewitnesses. What hard evidence does the defense have? Context has no meaning/importance if there is no hard evidence to back it up.

[BMG97]

Falang no good☹️

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Erm...  apparently you can't call a spade a spade any more Neeranam... 

 

... The wokerati have decided the term is no longer related to the transliteration of (Greek Philosopher) Erasmus' phrase "to call a fig a fig and a trough a trough"... it has since been linked to playing cards, at some point the term 'spade' was used as a code for 'Black People' and hence a simple phrase acquired racial undertones... 

 

Soon...  I wont be able to mention socks, or how sweaty they get..  not because your 'Iron brew fried Mars bar eating lot' get upset, but because a bunch of gender misappropriating nonce softies lack the ability to turn the banter into a win for both parties with an entertaining exchange of verbiage our better halves would blush at....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol, pathetic isn't it?

 

But 'sweaty sock' is not based on race. Nothing wrong with sweaty, pom, septic etc. Mind you, I felt a bit like my grandmother recently when my daughter told me I can't say 'Red Indian'. I pointed out that in Thai they say the literal translation and that's OK. They differentiuate between Arabs(white indian) and Native Americans(Red Indians). My gran was shocked when I told her some wokes would be offended if she used 'gollywog'.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We're not in our country...  In most cases in 'our country' (wherever that may be) the Police are not viewed upon with a general degree of suspicion for being self serving and corrupt... 

 

Some people have different views:

How many complaints are made against police officers, and how many are sacked? (bbc.com)

[transam]

I now read/see that the attacked cop was trying to take the 2 plumbs photo, that's when they attacked him, to grab his phone....Hmmmmmm.....😱

 

 

[superal]

On 3/19/2024 at 5:29 PM, zzzzz said:

what happened before they were pulled over is irrelevant. 
they are wrong and now must face the consequences.

In a court of law ( Western World ) , you need all of the evidence to come to a verdict . That video is only a part of the altercation . However 

T.I.T. so the correct law enforcement and correct conclusions are not always applied . It will be the cops word against the 2 NZs . Guess what the outcome will be ?

[Olmate]

22 minutes ago, superal said:

In a court of law ( Western World ) , you need all of the evidence to come to a verdict . That video is only a part of the altercation . However 

T.I.T. so the correct law enforcement and correct conclusions are not always applied . It will be the cops word against the 2 NZs . Guess what the outcome will be ?

So a dashcam of a US black kid getting shot dead is insufficient, we need to know more? Maybe we should all head there for justice? 

[zzzzz]

turn this around to America or anywhere where the police are armed
see what happens when you try to disarm a cop, even if he is pointing it at you and yelling at you!!!!!

you dont deescalate a situation with police by disarming them!!!


 

Edited March 21 by zzzzz

[georgegeorgia]

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So a dashcam of a US black kid getting shot dead is insufficient, we need to know more? Maybe we should all head there for justice? 

I don't want to be the pied piper ,but I would hazard a guess with all your spelling mistakes you grew up in a low class uneducated house , obviously the old folks werent lawyers or doctors .

[superal]

28 minutes ago, Olmate said:

So a dashcam of a US black kid getting shot dead is insufficient, we need to know more? Maybe we should all head there for justice? 

No relevance from your quote to the case in hand . Video evidence showing someone firing a gun and killing someone is conclusive but that is clearly not the case here . We have watched a NZ guy trying to disarm a Thai cop ( I wonder why ? ) and then the unloading of the bullets , for a good reason . The gun then given back to the cop . What we are told is that the 2 NZ guys failed to stop at a check point , also 1 of them did not have a licence . Cop pursued them and caught them at a noodle shop . At that point there is no video of what happened but I can imagine what did because of the NZ guys reaction .

I am reacting to the facts and not conjecture .

[transam]

4 minutes ago, superal said:

No relevance from your quote to the case in hand . Video evidence showing someone firing a gun and killing someone is conclusive but that is clearly not the case here . We have watched a NZ guy trying to disarm a Thai cop ( I wonder why ? ) and then the unloading of the bullets , for a good reason . The gun then given back to the cop . What we are told is that the 2 NZ guys failed to stop at a check point , also 1 of them did not have a licence . Cop pursued them and caught them at a noodle shop . At that point there is no video of what happened but I can imagine what did because of the NZ guys reaction .

I am reacting to the facts and not conjecture .

I read they were trying to take the cops PHONE because he was going to take their photos as evidence (passport) when they went for him....

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I don't want to be the pied piper ,but I would hazard a guess with all your spelling mistakes you grew up in a low class uneducated house , obviously the old folks werent lawyers or doctors .

 

Socio-phonetics is somewhat of a giveaway, as is knowing how to correctly place a space after a comma and not before !!!... 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, transam said:

I now read/see that the attacked cop was trying to take the 2 plumbs photo, that's when they attacked him, to grab his phone....Hmmmmmm.....😱

 

That would explain the escalation and adds a little logic to the progression of a situation that turned chaotic. 

 

- Policeman stops the NZ Guys and starts filming them.

- NZ Guys not happy about this and react, take the phone to try to delete photos. 

- Police officer responds angrily and the NZ thinks he needs to remove the risk of the Policeman reaching for his gun.

 

(something like that anyway - & before the wise-arses step in... yes, this all speculation of course - for the purposes of discussion on this forum)

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We're not in our country...  In most cases in 'our country' (wherever that may be) the Police are not viewed upon with a general degree of suspicion for being self serving and corrupt... 

 

Some people have different views:

How many complaints are made against police officers, and how many are sacked? (bbc.com)

 

And your interpretation of those views in comparison to the general level of trust and general degree of regard the Thai Police are held by the general population is quite flawed. 

 

All you have have done is to provide us with an example of the transparency and official due process that Police in the UK face when there is a complaint. 

 

This information alone validates my point rather than contradicts it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[superal]

2 hours ago, transam said:

I read they were trying to take the cops PHONE because he was going to take their photos as evidence (passport) when they went for him....

Link ? cos I have not read that and anyway when are we going to hear the NZ guys statement ?

[FritsSikkink]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

And your interpretation of those views in comparison to the general level of trust and general degree of regard the Thai Police are held by the general population is quite flawed. 

 

All you have have done is to provide us with an example of the transparency and official due process that Police in the UK face when there is a complaint. 

 

This information alone validates my point rather than contradicts it. 

 

 

But what happens if you assault a police officer in your country and take his weapon (UK does have special units who are armed)

[transam]

4 minutes ago, superal said:

Link ? cos I have not read that and anyway when are we going to hear the NZ guys statement ?

Find it yourself.........🙄

The numpties statement will arrive when they have thought of something that may work...

But, that may take a rather long time, so, lay back and gaze at a clown with a cop in a strangle hold.........🤩

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

But what happens if you assault a police officer in your country and take his weapon (UK does have special units who are armed)

 

Of course, the penalties would be extreme...

 

Or more realistically, you'd end up shot dead because any armed Policeman in the UK is highlight trained, also, never operating alone.... Thus due to training and SOP the opportunity would not present itself in the first place making your 'whatifery' a completely moot point.

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

29 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Of course, the penalties would be extreme...

 

Or more realistically, you'd end up shot dead because any armed Policeman in the UK is highlight trained, also, never operating alone.... Thus due to training and SOP the opportunity would not present itself in the first place making your 'whatifery' a completely moot point.

 

 

It isn't a moot point at all. It shows that the people here who state "they only restrained the police man and took his weapon because they were scared" are making a fool of themselves.

[Olmate]

8 hours ago, Olmate said:

So a dashcam of a US black kid getting shot dead is insufficient, we need to know more? Maybe we should all head there for justice? 

Point them out Spell Cop,(lowest form of flaming)right up your anal, (sorry mispell) alley of course. Happy to help with your proof reading lessons, I will bring my own Yellow Pages.  Woosh.! Next. lol

[Olmate]

8 hours ago, superal said:

No relevance from your quote to the case in hand . Video evidence showing someone firing a gun and killing someone is conclusive but that is clearly not the case here . We have watched a NZ guy trying to disarm a Thai cop ( I wonder why ? ) and then the unloading of the bullets , for a good reason . The gun then given back to the cop . What we are told is that the 2 NZ guys failed to stop at a check point , also 1 of them did not have a licence . Cop pursued them and caught them at a noodle shop . At that point there is no video of what happened but I can imagine what did because of the NZ guys reaction .

I am reacting to the facts and not conjecture .

Surely it depends on what the charges are, how its worded,  and what evidence prosecution puts fwd to support that charge going fwd. Either way kiwi=toast. As many have stated here, anywhere else, Oz for sure, they would be shot ortasered. Offenders with knives even. Sadly an elderly woman, nursing home resident with a butterknife, shot dead the latest I recall.

Edited March 21 by Olmate

[Captain Monday]

On 3/18/2024 at 8:22 PM, mstevens said:

 

The Privacy Act in New Zealand means details of previous arrests or criminal history is generally not made public.

Criminals have privacy in NZ? What happens after they are released from jail go get a job at a bank or grammar school?

[Perhaps2more]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:03 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

What I saw was the two farangs restraining the cop, taking his gun off him and making it safe.

 

There is an additional video and photos of them all standing around together after the incident.

 

What led up to the assault happening?

 

Maybe the cop held a gun to their head over a traffic violation? 

 

Point is we simply don't know and are just speculating.

You do not have to know what had come before to see that they were wrong. ~ You try taking a gun of a US policeman and also put him in a headlock, regardless of what has happened before which you may think, is justifiable. You will not survive. ~ At least Thai police do not shoot to kill.

[murphybridget]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:04 AM, Olmate said:

Deerculler? thinking of a bow hunter and dribbling good ol boys but from the land of long white cloud. Bitsimilar to these two" loserbrothers in arms"  Do you play the banjo! 

"Deerculler" sounds like an intriguing concept, blending the imagery of bow hunting with the camaraderie of good ol' boys from the land of the long white cloud. It brings to mind the adventurous spirit of "loserbrothers in arms" with a unique twist. As for playing the banjo, while I don't play instruments myself, I'm here to help with anything banjo-related you might need!

[Olmate]

8 minutes ago, murphybridget said:

"Deerculler" sounds like an intriguing concept, blending the imagery of bow hunting with the camaraderie of good ol' boys from the land of the long white cloud. It brings to mind the adventurous spirit of "loserbrothers in arms" with a unique twist. As for playing the banjo, while I don't play instruments myself, I'm here to help with anything banjo-related you might need!

Dont tell me, tell the deer killer, no doubt a wild pig hunter as well, with the obligatory pack ofbloodthirsty killer pigdogs. Just the man to tell us how placid these two kiwi thugs are.! Your welcome.

[murphybridget]

On 3/22/2024 at 3:49 AM, Olmate said:

Dont tell me, tell the deer killer, no doubt a wild pig hunter as well, with the obligatory pack ofbloodthirsty killer pigdogs. Just the man to tell us how placid these two kiwi thugs are.! Your welcome.

Tell him his service against feral hogs is needed stateside.

[Dogmatix]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:26 AM, ryandb said:

We have seen some evidence of the tail-end of the incident only and you want them jailed just on this?

 

What we know

 

-They restrained and removed the weapon from his hand which we know one round was fired, removed the rounds

 

then we have the police side and the 2 NZers denying all charges which is he said/she said

 

Which leads to questions

 

-Why was the gun in his hand?

-How was the round fired?

-What happened in the whole interaction up until the video started?

-They didn't beat him up while he was grounded, if they were just thugs, why not?

 

Honestly, it's people like you who consent to police being above the people, which leads to them gaining confidence they can get away with anything.

 

 

 

The gun was in his hand because his brother had just disarmed the cop and handed to him.  He promptly removed the magazine and unloaded the gun holding it in a way that it clearly couldn't be fired, even if still loaded. 

 

Not clear if the gun was fired by the cop trying to hit one of the Kiwis or whether one of them reacted to the cop pulling a gun on him and, thinking he was about to get shot, grabbed at the gun and it went off.  Most likely the latter I would guess.

 

Why didn't they beat him up once they got him on the grounds.  Because they just waned to neutralise the threat he had presented to them after he pulled his gun on them. 

 

Just my take.  Doesn't exonerate them but I think they stupidly got themselves into a bad situation and then panicked when the cop got scared of two big blokes and pulled his gun on them.