Thousands of flights to and from Europe affected by suspected Russian jamming

[eisfeld]

29 minutes ago, johng said:

Yes NATO continues to expand towards Russia's borders..I wonder when Ukraine will be excepted into the club ?

 

Why would Russia be frightened by a defensive alliance? NATO does not invade countries. Has not, will not.

25 minutes ago, johng said:

Perhaps it was a gentleman's agreement  between Gorbachev and Reagan  ???

 

Perhaps? Either there was an agreement or there wasn't. If it's important to Russia then maybe put it in writing like everything else? Didn't happen. Reagan never ushered anything like that, it was Baker who met with Gorbachev and Baker said he didn't make any such assurance. The topic also was unification of Germany. What does Ukraine have suddenly to do with it and why is it ok to invade them?

[JackGats]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

I can't believe the way they're salivating over going on a war footing. 

 

I wish every British politician was required to visit the graveyards and tour the museums in Kanchanaburi to see what happens when you send your young men off to foreign wars.  Nowadays, it'll be young men and women.

I'd rather the Ukranians fight than I though. Therefore I say "let the Ukranians have all the weapons they want".

[eisfeld]

29 minutes ago, retarius said:

From the voting it looks like this thread is populated by warmongers (6 warmongers with a down vote) or people that support the need for war as some sort of reflexive reactive. I despise this sort of person.

 

You are, as usual, confused. The people who downvote you are against the war and against Putin the warmonger. To call the downvoters warmongers is nonsensical. They didn't stir up war.

[Woof999]

Why are we referring to Russia? All mentions of Russia should be replaced with Putin. Russia has not held real elections for decades, probably longer. Their constitution has been altered to allow one man (not really what I'd call him) to retain absolute power in a similar fashion to Xi in China. All political opposition is destroyed / killed / incarcerated and all information that does not align with Putin's views is totally suppressed.

 

...and I'm supposed to believe that Putin was FORCED into invading a nation, because other nations made decisions that they believed were in their best interest?

 

How is it that the largest nation on Earth, by a HUGE margin, is the one that feels it needs a buffer around its borders?

 

 

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, Social Media said:

Since last August, approximately 46,000 aircraft, including those of major airlines like Ryanair, Wizz Air, British Airways, and easyJet, have reported incidents of GPS interference over the Baltic Sea.

"major airlines"?

 

The source text has been rearranged somewhat under journalistic licence, airlines named account for less than 10%.

 

"More than 2,300 Ryanair flights have reported incidents of GPS interference since last August, according to a report, as well as almost 1,400 at Wizz Air, 82 at British Airways and four from easyJet.

About 46,000 aircraft in total have logged problems with GPS over the Baltic Sea in the same time period, the Sun reported, based on analysis of flight logs with the website GPSJAM.org."

[0ffshore360]

2 hours ago, candide said:

And then the bad war mongering USA sent massive military help to Russia. Funny how history repeats itself! 😀

The US sent massive military supplies to the UK, China, and the  Soviets on a commercial interest basis nearly 1 year before opting in to ww2. And that only happened when the Japs declared war followed very soon after by Germany.

Funny no really how the $ Cost of war features so high ahead of human deaths.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

The US sent massive military supplies to the UK, China, and the  Soviets on a commercial interest basis nearly 1 year before opting in to ww2. And that only happened when the Japs declared war followed very soon after by Germany.

Funny no really how the $ Cost of war features so high ahead of human deaths.

A point of view that ignores the political debate within the U.S.

 

Then as now with isolationists and appeasers on one side those supporting US allies on the other.

 

And..

 

The supply of those essential weapons material and food was delivered at huge cost in the lives of American seamen.

 

 

Edited April 24 by Chomper Higgot

[candide]

53 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

The US sent massive military supplies to the UK, China, and the  Soviets on a commercial interest basis nearly 1 year before opting in to ww2. And that only happened when the Japs declared war followed very soon after by Germany.

Funny no really how the $ Cost of war features so high ahead of human deaths.

Under the lend lease scheme, they had not pay for that was used or destroyed during WWII. The Soviet Union paid back only 8% of what was provided. Actually less, if you take into account inflation, as most of the repayment was made in 1972.

 

So that was war mongering according to the line of thought of pro-putin posters, wasn't it?

[0ffshore360]

19 minutes ago, candide said:

Under the lend lease scheme, they had not pay for that was used or destroyed during WWII. The Soviet Union paid back only 8% of what was provided. Actually less, if you take into account inflation, as most of the repayment was made in 1972.

 

So that was war mongering according to the line of thought of pro-putin posters, wasn't it?

Did I mention war mongering? Or being pro putin at any time?

You seem to have an uncontrolled predilection for projecting paranoid assumptions.

 

[candide]

13 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Did I mention war mongering? Or being pro putin at any time?

You seem to have an uncontrolled predilection for projecting paranoid assumptions.

 

Right. It was not intended to you, but to the posters I initially replied to, who were accusing the current administration of war mongering for spending weapons to Ukraine.

Sorry for being confusing.

[RayC]

4 hours ago, johng said:

Perhaps it was a gentleman's agreement  between Gorbachev and Reagan  ???

 

And perhaps it wasn't?

 

In any event, even though the US are the paymasters of NATO, the US President cannot make guarantees on behalf of NATO.

[animalmagic]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't around at the time to "remember", but I've read up on it and Russia saved Europe at the cost of some 40 million lives.

I'm not supposed to give history lessons on here, but the information is all out there.

 

Sorry John Wayne, but you didn't save us after all.

Did the almost 12 billion usd (180 billion in today's money) from USA not help a little? Or could that be compared to current financial aid given to Ukraine after being invaded by an aggressor?

[hotchilli]

22 hours ago, retarius said:

War is ugly, but European politicians love it, especially the Brits. I see only pain in the future. We need to get rid of these warmongering scum as our leaders, if there is to be a happy life for our kids and grandkids. Vote for peacemakers not warmongers. 

Include USA in that statement.

[Hakuna Matata]

23 hours ago, retarius said:

We need to get rid of these warmongering scum as our leaders

 

Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson must go!

[soalbundy]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh, the WW2 Graves.

 

A reminder of the reward of appeasement.

It really doesn't matter if you're dead, a live appeaser or a dead hero....that's a tough one, I'll need my thinking cap.

[Hakuna Matata]

17 hours ago, RayC said:

So it's perfectly ok for Russia to interfere with aviation communication channels, thus endangering the lives of thousands of innocent civilians?

 

How did they fly safely 30 years ago without any GPS navigation system in aircraft?

Now GPS is widely used to guide precision weapons and drones at the battlefield.

It is quite logical to jam the GPS signal in certain locations.

Elon Musk's satellites are also being jammed over the Ukraine.

[Bangkok Barry]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:16 AM, retarius said:

War is ugly, but European politicians love it, especially the Brits. I see only pain in the future. We need to get rid of these warmongering scum as our leaders, if there is to be a happy life for our kids and grandkids. Vote for peacemakers not warmongers. 

Men have been fighting in one way or another since the beginning of time. It's what humans do. There has probably never been a single day of peace on the planet. Google Arthur C Clarke's Childhoods End on the only way to solve it.

[Bangkok Barry]

This borders (no pun intended) on state terrorism, doesn't it? As I've said before, it's not if but when countries are brought to their knees by a terrorist state or organisation cutting essential services. Imagine finding one day that we have no electricity, for example. And it's no good governments saying there are safeguards. We know services can collapse even without the aid of terrorism. 'Your data is safe with us' is the biggest lie of modern times.

[Srikcir]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:47 AM, impulse said:

I can't believe the way they're salivating over going on a war footing. 

Here's real salivation:

Fifty-two countries invaded by the Soviet Union / Russia Federation 1918-2015.

https://www.numbers-stations.com/articles/soviet-and-russian-invasions-since-1917/

 

Three African countries (not including further invasion of Ukraine) post-2015 including support from Russian allies and Russian authorized mercenaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

 

The smell of free countries is like honey to the Russian bear.

[Srikcir]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:47 AM, impulse said:

 

 

Edited April 25 by Srikcir
again doubling posting issue not showing submitted

[nauseus]

Wars, invasions? Anything here but few about the OP topic.

 

A new DS? Like GPSDS? I don't know.

[charleskerins]

19 hours ago, hwas said:

UK has a long way to catch up with the Americans.  If there is no war, the Americans will find a “reason” to start one

Vote for Neville Chamberlain

[charleskerins]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Here's real salivation:

Fifty-two countries invaded by the Soviet Union / Russia Federation 1918-2015.

https://www.numbers-stations.com/articles/soviet-and-russian-invasions-since-1917/

 

Three African countries (not including further invasion of Ukraine) post-2015 including support from Russian allies and Russian authorized mercenaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

 

The smell of free countries is like honey to the Russian bear.

Putin is not our enemy says the fool.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Negita43 said:

I always thought at the beginning of the WW2 Russia and Germany had an agreement not to fight each other But then Hitler renaged on that agreement and attacked Russia. So I don't really think Russia saved Europe more like they saved themselves and Europe benefited

Without going into a history lesson, Russia diverted and destroyed so much of the German military ( army AND air force ) that the Allies were able to reach Germany before the Russians took all of Eastern Europe. Had the German military not been gutted by Russia the Allied invasion would probably never have left the beaches alive, IMO. The Allied secret weapon was Hitler who refused to let the Germans retreat from Russia, and they were destroyed there.

Perhaps they did it to save themselves, but it doesn't mean that they didn't win the war against Germany

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Wars, invasions? Anything here but few about the OP topic.

 

A new DS? Like GPSDS? I don't know.

The topic would be covered in a couple of posts, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Hakuna Matata said:

 

How did they fly safely 30 years ago without any GPS navigation system in aircraft?

Now GPS is widely used to guide precision weapons and drones at the battlefield.

It is quite logical to jam the GPS signal in certain locations.

Elon Musk's satellites are also being jammed over the Ukraine.

30 years ago the sky wasn't full of planes. IMO without GPS the sky would be too dangerous to fly in.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Did the almost 12 billion usd (180 billion in today's money) from USA not help a little? Or could that be compared to current financial aid given to Ukraine after being invaded by an aggressor?

You are correct that American aid to Russia, not just money, but also tanks and planes etc, were necessary to win against the Germans, who were better armed in every aspect ( the Russians won at the cost of 40 million or so lives ), but money and tanks don't win wars, they are won by grunts in the mud.

Besides, the Allies knew that if Russia was able to keep masses of Germans occupied it would mean they were not fighting the Allies, so it was a case of helping the Russians for their own benefit.

That does not apply in Ukraine as Russia is not at war with the west. Nice try but no cigar.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

30 years ago the sky wasn't full of planes. IMO without GPS the sky would be too dangerous to fly in.

 

Well, they're doing it now, near parts of eastern Europe, where the GPS drops out due to interference, older systems are used. Pre 1990 (GPS) there was already heavy air traffic - radio navigation like VOR and NDB were used and are still used and available today when needed, as well as inertial nav systems and advanced radar/transponder data from onboard and regional and local ATC centers.  

[RayC]

5 hours ago, Hakuna Matata said:

 

How did they fly safely 30 years ago without any GPS navigation system in aircraft?

 

Using radar based navigation systems, which now form part of the safety net when GPS is unavailable. Is flying under such conditions unsafe? Absolutely not but the use GPS data offers more precision.

 

(I'll admit to some degree of hyperbole in my original post).

 

5 hours ago, Hakuna Matata said:

Now GPS is widely used to guide precision weapons and drones at the battlefield.

It is quite logical to jam the GPS signal in certain locations.

Elon Musk's satellites are also being jammed over the Ukraine.

 

Given the circumstances, Russia's jamming of GPS signals over Ukraine is understandable but in the Baltic? Were there NATO military manoeuvres being carried out in the area? If not, the only reason for jamming GPS signals would be to disrupt civil activity. So far as aviation - and other forms of transport - is concerned, the risk to life by doing so is negligible but it is not non-existent. 

[candide]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Without going into a history lesson, Russia diverted and destroyed so much of the German military ( army AND air force ) that the Allies were able to reach Germany before the Russians took all of Eastern Europe. Had the German military not been gutted by Russia the Allied invasion would probably never have left the beaches alive, IMO. The Allied secret weapon was Hitler who refused to let the Germans retreat from Russia, and they were destroyed there.

Perhaps they did it to save themselves, but it doesn't mean that they didn't win the war against Germany

And the bad war mongering U.S.A. was providing weapons to Russia, just as they are doing now to Ukraine!

What a shame! 😃