51 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Everyone responsible for coercing the vaccine on people deserve to lose their jobs

 

Generally speaking, the CDC and its leadership [including those ousted this week] RECOMMENDED vaccines for various groups at and at various times. The mandates you seem to dislike generally were adopted by others, the Biden Administration via executive order, various other federal agencies, states, local governments, private organizations.

 

There never was a nationwide COVID vaccines mandate for all Americans during the pandemic.

 

But either way, there was a reason for the CDC's recommendations:

 

Report: COVID-19 vaccines saved US $1.15 trillion, 3 million lives

News brief

 

December 13, 2022

 

"A Commonwealth Fund study estimates that, through November 2022, COVID-19 vaccines prevented more than 18.5 million US hospitalizations and 3.2 million deaths and saved the country $1.15 trillion."

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/report-covid-19-vaccines-saved-us-115-trillion-3-million-lives

 

 

Resignation letter (excerpts) from Dr. Deb Houry, former CDC Deputy Director for Program and Science/Chief Medical Officer:

 

"For the good of the nation and the world, the science at CDC should never be censored or subject to political pauses or interpretations. Vaccines save lives—this is an indisputable, well-established, scientific fact. Informed consent and shared decision-making must focus not only on the risks but also on the true, life-saving benefits that vaccines provide to individuals and communities.

 

It is, of course, important to question, analyze, and review research and surveillance, but this must be done by experts with the right skills and experience, without bias, and considering the full weight of scientific evidence. Recently, the overstating of risks and the rise of misinformation have cost lives, as demonstrated by the highest number of U.S. measles cases in 30 years and the violent attack on our agency.

...

However, proposed budget cuts and reorganization plans will negatively impact CDC's ability to address these conditions, worsening the nation's health. I love this agency. Nevertheless, I have submitted my resignation today. I am committed to protecting the public’s health, but the ongoing changes prevent me from continuing in my job as a leader of the agency. This is a heartbreaking decision that I make with a heavy heart."

 

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/breaking-news-read-three-top-cdc

 

 

 

If those are the same CDC nobs that presided over 4% of the world's population, spending more (by far) than any other country for healthcare and still having 16% of the world's alleged Covid deaths, I hope the door doesn't hit them in the ass on their way out.

 

At least ten new billionaires in the healthcare industry as a result of covid. 

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

At least ten new billionaires in the healthcare industry as a result of covid. 

Ten, can you give us their names and positions......?.........🤔

Sorry, forty new billionaires as a result of covid. 

 

Meet The 40 New Billionaires Who Got Rich Fighting Covid-19

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/04/06/meet-the-40-new-billionaires-who-got-rich-fighting-covid-19/

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Sorry, forty new billionaires as a result of covid. 

 

Meet The 40 New Billionaires Who Got Rich Fighting Covid-19

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2021/04/06/meet-the-40-new-billionaires-who-got-rich-fighting-covid-19/

Thank you the link.........🤭

 

World may be a better place without the CDC ...

... Paint the inside of your house with DDT infused paint

... men can have children

... safe & effective

... masks work 

 

IMHO of course, and thinks I may have read, not facts of course, again ... IMHO

 

Not a fan of painting ... use wallpaper ... 

 

Multiple post have been removed for posting unsourced and unsubstantiated content, making political posts not allowed under this forum's local rules, and trolling. Per this forum's rules:

 

--In factual areas such as news forums and current affairs topics member content that is claimed or portrayed as a fact should be supported by a link to a relevant reputable source.

 

--This forum is not for conspiracy theories or any form of political discussion.

13 hours ago, angryguy said:

Everyone responsible for coercing the vaccine on people deserve to lose their jobs

Yes indeed.

 

here some "breaking news"  (well not for some of us)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/25/covid-vaccines-saved-fewer-lives-than-first-thought/

 

Covid vaccines saved far fewer lives than first thought, a major new analysis has concluded, with researchers criticising “aggressive mandates”.

Last year, the World Health Organisation (WHO) claimed jabs had prevented the deaths of 14.4 million people globally in the first year alone, with some estimates putting the figure closer to 20 million.

However, new modelling by Stanford University and Italian researchers suggests that while the vaccines did save lives, the true figure was “substantially more conservative” and closer to 2.5 million people worldwide over the course of the pandemic.

 

 

6 hours ago, johng said:

Yes indeed.

 

here some "breaking news"  (well not for some of us)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/25/covid-vaccines-saved-fewer-lives-than-first-thought/

 

Covid vaccines saved far fewer lives than first thought, a major new analysis has concluded, with researchers criticising “aggressive mandates”.

Last year, the World Health Organisation (WHO) claimed jabs had prevented the deaths of 14.4 million people globally in the first year alone, with some estimates putting the figure closer to 20 million.

However, new modelling by Stanford University and Italian researchers suggests that while the vaccines did save lives, the true figure was “substantially more conservative” and closer to 2.5 million people worldwide over the course of the pandemic.

 

 

 

Yes, there is that new study, and was done by a long-time COVID denying/minimizing Stanford academic who predicted at the start of the COVID pandemic that maybe it would lead to 10,000 U.S. deaths.  The current actual number is more than 1.2 million.   Just how wrong can this guy be, considering his credibility on such topics is shot!

 

John Ioannidis' COVID denying nonsense below:

 

 

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.” [emphasis added]

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

The reality Ioannidis never saw:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

 

 

And a commentary on Ioannidis by a prominent MD/public health blogger:

 

Dr. John Ioannidis: “The Biggest Mistakes I am Sure Are Mine.”

 

April 19, 2024

...

"While there’s a lot of competition, it’s hard to think of another scientist who was so wrong, early, so consistently, and so publicly. [emphasis added]

...

On CNN, he called COVID a “common and mild infection” for most people. In another interview from April 2020, he said:

"I would say that covid-19 will result in fewer than 40,000 deaths this season in the USA."

The USA would surpass 40,000 deaths 8-days later.

...

 Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that prestigious doctors from prestigious medical schools, sheltered from the consequences of their words, would deluge the media and politicians with pro-virus, anti-vaccine misinformation in the middle of a deadly pandemic.."

 

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/mistakes/

 

It's also worth noting for all the anti-vaxers here that it's a darling of right-wing/ COVID minimizing / vaccine skeptical politics who's now acknowledging in his own published study that the COVID vaccines, by his estimate, saved 2.5 million lives....  That's going to be a hard pill for the anti-vaxers to swallow.

 

Multiple other reports and studies by non-partisan researchers have put the estimated numbers of lives saved by COVID vaccines far higher, with several putting the U.S. number alone at more than 3 million lives saved.

 

But if Ioannidis of all people wants to come along now five years into the pandemic and acknowledge COVID vaccines saved millions of lives, I'll take that as a major win for the team!  🙂

 

 

One of the non-partisan studies on lives saved in the U.S. alone from COVID vaccines, more than 3 million, and a number that exceeds Ioannidis' global estimate:

 

"From December 2020 through November 2022, we estimate that the COVID-19 vaccination program in the U.S. prevented more than 18.5 million additional hospitalizations and 3.2 million additional deaths. Without vaccination, there would have been nearly 120 million more COVID-19 infections. The vaccination program also saved the U.S. $1.15 trillion (Credible Interval: $1.10 trillion–$1.19 trillion) (data not shown) in medical costs that would otherwise have been incurred."

 

The Commonwealth Fund

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-vaccines-prevented-millions-deaths-hospitalizations

 

 

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's also worth noting for all the anti-vaxers here that it's a darling of right-wing/ COVID minimizing / vaccine skeptical politics who's now acknowledging in his own published study that the COVID vaccines, by his estimate, saved 2.5 million lives....  That's going to be a hard pill for the anti-vaxers to swallow.

 

Before you go high fiving yourselves, you should look at the actual age breakdown.  They saved mostly old farts, with virtually no benefit for most age groups. 

 

Most of us vaccine skeptics understood all along that there are people who would benefit more from the mRNAs than the risks they imposed.  Now, it'll be years, (maybe generations) before we have a full understanding of the side effects on the kids who were at virtually no risk of dying from Covid.

 

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

kids who were at virtually no risk of dying from Covid.

How many children died of COVID?

1. There's no evidence or basis in vaccinology that the COVID vaccines will have any future unknown effects years after people have been vaccinated.  When vaccines have side effects, they invariably occur relatively soon after vaccination.

 

5 Reasons We Know The COVID-19 Vaccines Don’t Have Long-Term Health Effects

 

https://www.mahp.org/2022/02/24/5-reasons-we-know-the-covid-19-vaccines-dont-have-long-term-health-effects/

 

 

2. Lots of children died from COVID -- more than 1,800 in the U.S. alone -- and vastly larger numbers needed to be hospitalized and have suffered from ongoing long COVID symptoms.

 

 

https://data.cdc.gov/National-Center-for-Health-Statistics/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b-4pzv

 

UNICEF at one point, when the global COVID death toll was estimated at only 4 million (half of what it ended up being officially, estimated that more than 17,000 young people under the age of  20 had died of COVID globally, though they admitted that -- unlike the U,S. CDC data above -- was not a very firm estimate.

 

https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/covid-19/

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, transam said:

Thank you the link.........🤭

 

These people were in the right place at the right time and made their fortunes saving lives.....no problem with that!

44 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

1. There's no evidence or basis in vaccinology that the COVID vaccines will have any future unknown effects years after people have been vaccinated.  When vaccines have side effects, they invariably occur relatively soon after vaccination.

 

But the mRNAs aren't a vaccine by the definition used before Covid revisionism, are they?

 

18 hours ago, dutch boy said:

This from Chat GPT:

 

"Wearing a mask can lead to discomfort and side effects such as headaches, skin irritation, and breathing difficulties, especially with prolonged use. Additionally, some studies suggest that excessive carbon dioxide rebreathing may impair cognitive function and overall health."

 

I really wonder about some people who keep droning on and on and on about masks and COVID vaccines. Maybe their cognitive functions have been severely affected.

There's a reason you didn't include the question posed and the conclusion reached, isn't it liar.

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Of Covid, or with Covid?  Foolish incentives to the hospitals make that pretty hard to ferret out.

 

Given its widespread presence, there's no doubt that a lot of kids would have tested positive, even if they died of completely unrelated causes.  But the hospitals were paid a bonus if they chalked the treatment and death up to Covid.

 

Deflection. It's been well settled your claim is based on nothing.

Many died, many more were hospitalised, all were not at risk according to you.

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The vaccines have been administered to more than 13 billion people around the globe over the past nearly five years

 

I think you meant 13 billion times.  Only 8 billion people on the planet.

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Deflection. It's been well settled your claim is based on nothing.

Many died, many more were hospitalised, all were not at risk according to you.

Healthy ones too!

 

 

24 minutes ago, blaze master said:

 

I think you meant 13 billion times.  Only 8 billion people on the planet.

In which case, they knew what was best for them......🤗

More posts have been removed for violating various forum rules, including disallowed political discussion here, comments on moderation and off-topic posts unrelated to COVID.

 

Any more of the same, including posting unsourced and unsubstantiated claims of supposed fact, will be removed without further notice.

 

 

The CDC is the most damaging thing to an American's health, before this administration.

22 hours ago, Airalee said:

Healthy ones too!

 

 

 

Yeah looks like a very healthy 16-year-old. Was he less than 250 pound?

 

 

CDC leaders exodus puts nation's health at risk

 

 

This is so true........

 

.......you could end up with a nation of obese adults, suffering from elevated cholesterol, dangerously high hypertension, heart disease, plagued by substance abuse and high incident rates of diabetes................oh wait?

 

What the hell have the CDC been doing?

 

 

 

A number of off-topic posts attempting to divert the discussion in this thread from its topic have been removed.

 

If you want to discuss other COVID-related topics, including the characteristics of people who have died from COVID, then create the appropriate thread, and support your factual claims with legitimate, reputable sources of information.

 

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

CDC leaders exodus puts nation's health at risk

 

 

This is so true........

 

.......you could end up with a nation of obese adults, suffering from elevated cholesterol, dangerously high hypertension, heart disease, plagued by substance abuse and high incident rates of diabetes................oh wait?

 

What the hell have the CDC been doing?

 

 

 

 

 

What the CDC leadership has been doing is what any American should expect them to be doing -- fighting for the country's health policies to be based on evidence-based research and proven science.

 

And NOT having the country's health policies be dictated by the whims of political idealogues who have no knowledge or expertise in the areas where they're trying to impose their unsupported policies that are bereft of any real scientific backing. And, whom it's become clear, had no interest in actually hearing from the actual experts working at CDC.

 

RFK Jr. was ‘never’ briefed by experts on vaccine preventable diseases: CDC official who resigned

 

 

The professional leadership staff at CDC tried to get in contact with RFK Jr. re various health issues, vaccines, diseases, outbreaks, etc.... And as they noted in this video above and other news reports this week, wherever Kennedy has been getting his information and advice from, it wasn't from anyone in leadership at CDC. He had no interest is listening to what his own agency had to say, or understanding why they were recommending what they were recommending.

 

Another good explanation below of why U.S. health policies should be based on facts and credible evidence-based research, and NOT on naked political ideology bereft of support in facts and credible research.

Resigned vaccine chief on Trump’s ousting of CDC director

 

 

"This week, CDC employees walked out of their offices in support of their leaders who resigned after President Trump ousted CDC Director Susan Monarez, and replaced her with Jim O’Neill, a businessman with no medical background. Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, former CDC vaccine chief who resigned, and Dr. Kavita Patel join The Weekend to discuss." 

A good, plain-spoken explanation of what's going on in the U.S. between the Trump Administration and HHS vs the CDC coming from ABC News Australia.

Trump's 'purge of expertise' reaches CDC

 

From the transcript of the above report:

 

 

"The falling out that has happened with Susan Monarez is basically because the Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr., who has oversight of the Centers for Disease Control, he is making it harder for Americans to get COVID 19 vaccines. We know that Kennedy is a long-term vaccine skeptic. He has peddled false and unscientific conspiracy theories that some vaccines are linked to childhood autism.

 

There is no evidence for that, but Kennedy is convinced of it. He's convinced of a lot of scientifically unsound things. And increasingly, the doctors who work at the Centers for Disease Control are concerned that he's imposing his false beliefs on this incredibly important agency by Kennedy making it harder for Americans to get the COVID 19 vaccine.

...

we have seen increasingly in the last seven months, Ros, so many expert agencies within the government being politicized and experts who are not political individuals who are just people of science or in the case of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, statisticians, employment experts, they're being gotten rid of because people like Donald Trump and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. don't like what these experts are telling them, even if what they are being told is based in fact rather than conspiracy theories. So this is is about many things at once which makes it a particularly fascinating story."

 

 

to the title ...

... I would think the opposite