Pattaya Is Dead Dead Dead

[MeetJohnDoe]

Pattaya was a sad sight tonight. Was in town this evening, on one of my periodic excursions from the Farside, and wandered about the southern part of town (Avenue Mall and Royal Garden) and then off towards South Pattaya Road. Businesses were open but there was nobody around...the streets were almost deserted and all the staffs were a sorry lot just sitting around in shops and restos with few, if any, customers. Business must be terrible for the owners. Even Micky Ds and the Burger King were doing little business. I went to 3 go-go bars and in two of them, I was the only customer for almost an hour before I left (the third was doing decent business). I know it's a Monday nite in low-season but it seemed to me that I have never seen it this quiet before...and it's only early May...low-season has barely started.

PS: The Coffee Cafe restaurant in Royal Garden (across from Sizzler where Au Bon Pain used to be) is touting a buy-1 get one free meal deal. Buy any entre and a second of equal or lesser value is free. This can be either two people eating separate dishes or a single diner have a starter and main course and the less expensive dish will be free. The menu looks interesting with sandwiches, salads, mains, and pastas. They have the same deal for breakfast (open at 8:00); and also for coffee beverages - 2 for 1. Also, they are promoting that they don't have a service charge (only tax). This promo is running through the end of OCTOBER (low-season).

[Alasatraa]

Yes very true,i had to cut the rental prices of my condos by 50pcent to get tenants which luckilly i have,better something then nothing

[syd barrett]

Yes, it is so quiet now in the areas you mentioned. There has been a mass exodus following the Songkrawn festival, and that trouble in Bangkok which hit the world news didn't help.

However, I have noticed that at night, the busy areas are becoming 2nd Road/Soi Diana/Soi Buckhaew now.

Walking Street and the Beach Road bars have lost their clueless 2-week tourists and the long/medium stay/long-term crowd have found their own favourite cut-price bars elsewhere.

[pattaya_girl]

8 Years ago when i first came to Pattaya, the place was buzzing every night of the Week - its a real shame !!

I take off to Bangkok now for a decent night out, its busy every night at RCA Route 66.

[male]

And when does low season end?

[thaiman]

Walking Street and the Beach Road bars have lost their clueless 2-week tourists and the long/medium stay/long-term crowd have found their own favourite cut-price bars elsewhere.

Walking street will never die. Still plenty of punters out there spending. Businesses are hurting a bit but the skin trade is not dying so fast!

[JetsetBkk]

And when does low season end?

2nd or 3rd week of December.

[Jingthing]

JR, spot on, Tex! Sad though.

[theoldgit]

Yes very true,i had to cut the rental prices of my condos by 50pcent to get tenants which luckilly i have,better something then nothing

Clearly you are not Thai otherwise you would have put up the price to cover your losses.

Hope you can find a tennant at an acceptable price soon.

[gk10002000]

all so true. I first went in 2004. 2005 and 2006 were OK except for the baht exchange rate to the USD. Pattaya is just not what it used to be in my short time there.

I still might go back this summer just to kill some time. Hope some monthly rentals are reasonable. That whole idea they floated a few years ago to "raise prices to attract a better class of tourist". Well, they are welcome to their opinon. No offense meant to russians in general, but the ones that seem to be buying up businesses there are not doing a good job. The city just seems less fun.

The three days I took off in December to go up to see the old ruins in Sukothai were quite peaceful and relaxing and would do it again.

Still so much of thailand for me to see and I like to make Pattaya my home base while bussing around the country or spending a few days in Bangkok.

That recent 30 day to 15 day visa change cramps my style a lot. I usually never know when I am going or how long I am staying. I hop on a plane and go. If work allows, I extedn my stay and like to make the simple day visa run over to cambodia and come back. Now, to get another 30 day visa you have to fly back into the country. That makes what was a simple five hour round trip van ride become a trip to airports and costs ten times as much. Silly rule change.

I was there for the airport shutdown last year. Hated to see the disruptions this year. So bad for the country.

[patsfangr]

Pattaya was a sad sight tonight. Was in town this evening, on one of my periodic excursions from the Farside, and wandered about the southern part of town (Avenue Mall and Royal Garden) and then off towards South Pattaya Road. Businesses were open but there was nobody around...the streets were almost deserted and all the staffs were a sorry lot just sitting around in shops and restos with few, if any, customers. Business must be terrible for the owners. Even Micky Ds and the Burger King were doing little business. I went to 3 go-go bars and in two of them, I was the only customer for almost an hour before I left (the third was doing decent business). I know it's a Monday nite in low-season but it seemed to me that I have never seen it this quiet before...and it's only early May...low-season has barely started.

Well, that certainly wasn't the case on Friday night, John. I was driving to Pratumnak Hill, and decided to take the shorter route, down P. Klang, south on 3rd, rather than south to Thepprasit, and back north on Theppraya. The traffic on both P. Klang and 3rd was horrendous! It was a barely moving "parking lot" on 3rd, all the way from P. Klang nearly the intersection with Theppraya. It took over 30 minutes to get from Sukhumvit & P. Klang to Prat Hill.

[monty]

Well, that certainly wasn't the case on Friday night, John. I was driving to Pratumnak Hill, and decided to take the shorter route, down P. Klang, south on 3rd, rather than south to Thepprasit, and back north on Theppraya. The traffic on both P. Klang and 3rd was horrendous! It was a barely moving "parking lot" on 3rd, all the way from P. Klang nearly the intersection with Theppraya. It took over 30 minutes to get from Sukhumvit & P. Klang to Prat Hill.

Friday was a holiday. Means long weekend. Long weekends means horrible traffic jams in Pattaya, but not much more punters for the Western orientated business, as most of that traffic is the Thai Bangkok crowd...

SHopping malls tend to be very busy though on the Bkk crowd...

[MeetJohnDoe]

Well, that certainly wasn't the case on Friday night, John. I was driving to Pratumnak Hill, and decided to take the shorter route, down P. Klang, south on 3rd, rather than south to Thepprasit, and back north on Theppraya. It took over 30 minutes to get from Sukhumvit & P. Klang to Prat Hill.

Friday was a Buddhist holiday (Maha Bucha...one of the main ones) and there were lots of Thais on the roads going to all the temples around town...suspect there were also folks driving down from Bangkok making a 3-day weekend out of it. I was out too that nite and traffic was indeed very heavy all around town.

The only tourists I did see in any numbers were young Indian or Arab men, who didn't look to be big spenders, and I am sure are not the "quality" tourists and families the authorities have done so much to attract in recent years.

[Boater]

QUOTE (Alasatraa @ 2009-05-11 23:39:56)

Yes very true,i had to cut the rental prices of my condos by 50pcent to get tenants which luckilly i have,better something then nothing

Clearly you are not Thai otherwise you would have put up the price to cover your losses.

Hope you can find a tennant at an acceptable price soon.

beat me to it

[doggie888888]

As a resident in Pattaya, I am quite happy with the reduced tourist numbers coming to Pattaya. Of course, if you had a financial interest in tourism or if your employment is tourist related, you may not share my opinion; I understand and accept that.

My reasons, and I admit they are purely selfish, are that the reduced number of tourists means less crowds at the beach, less trafiic jams, less pollution etc...basically the way Pattaya is, there seems to be an inverse relationship between tourist numbers and my quality of life. High season was always a pain (except the weather) with traffic, crowds, litter and usual problems with crowds/drinking/partying; low season was always a joy to drive around, shop, going to beach etc. I know it is selfish but it's my honstly, I am not exactly upset that there are fewer touritst in town.

[patsfangr]

As a resident in Pattaya, I am quite happy with the reduced tourist numbers coming to Pattaya. Of course, if you had a financial interest in tourism or if your employment is tourist related, you may not share my opinion; I understand and accept that.

My reasons, and I admit they are purely selfish, are that the reduced number of tourists means less crowds at the beach, less trafiic jams, less pollution etc...basically the way Pattaya is, there seems to be an inverse relationship between tourist numbers and my quality of life. High season was always a pain (except the weather) with traffic, crowds, litter and usual problems with crowds/drinking/partying; low season was always a joy to drive around, shop, going to beach etc. I know it is selfish but it's my honstly, I am not exactly upset that there are fewer touritst in town.

While I agree with you, Doggie, it's a two-edged sword. Along with the good changes you noted, there comes a reduction in income. That would likely mean a reduction in the already deplorable maintenance of the infrastructure here. Also, the unfortunately large criminal element here would likely turn to more assaults and robberies of residents, with the reduction in the number of "easy marks" in the tourist population.

So, what's worse? Is it the bad traffic, pollution, crowds, litter, and party problems? Or is it even worse roads, water and power delivery; and greater exposure to criminals?

In any case, don't look for Pattaya to become a peaceful tropical paradise, where expats can live a safe and comfortable family life all over the city, anytime within the next generation.

[doggie888888]

patsfangr, i am realistic enough to know Pattaya will not revert to "peaceful tropical paradise" anytime soon and if I wanted that, would I even be in Pattaya? I chose Pattaya for its "acceptable" beach in an urban environmen; I wanted urban conveniences, yet easy access to beaches and islands; I wanted proximty to an international airport as well as to a big city in case I get bored or want to go shopping...my reasons are my own and I do not delude myself that Pattaya is a pristine beach paradise

I agree about crime increasing when people's livelihood are affected. For the moment I do feel comfortable and safe. Of course if I no longer feel this way, I can always return to my home country or go to a similar (but safer, if it exists?) environment elsewere.

As for infrastructure...there are other cities in Thailand not as dependant on the tourist $$$ yet they have perfectly acceptable roads and infrastructure, acceptable to their residents. It could be better of course, but Pattaya's roads and infrastructure are adequate for my purposes at the moment..and I suspect infrastructure in Pattaya is not as planned as you imagine where more tourists lead to more $$ thus better infrastructure.

[Guderian]

Read the Bangkok boards - just like Pattaya, apart from a few places that will always be busy, the place is largely deserted at night. Thai tourism is cratering, and if Khun Mark thinks that another 3 Baht on a bottle of Heineken (read: 10 Baht on a bottle in a bar) won't be noticed by cash-strapped tourists, then he is living in Cloud Cuckoo land. Of course, the up-market tourists they all want to attract won't mind, but between the PAD at Swampy last year and the red shirts in Pattaya this month, they've probably all been scared off.

[Penkoprod]

I dont think the place being dead at this time of year is the main worry for businesses, as its always quieter from now til November time. I remember being in Walking Street in a July/August period quite a few years ago (the last time i went there at that time of year) and it was as if a switch had been flicked at 10-10:30, and the people not working there for a living quickly vanished into the ether. So its not that new, either I dont think many of the food carts stayed on past midnight

What i think IS new is that businesses are taking hit after hit for various reasons well documented on other threads here. Bad press for Thailand itself, two bad documentaries about Pattaya on top, plus a recession gripping the countries traditionally providing the backbone for the tourist trade, etc, etc.

Also, during the boom years it was a case of "build, build, build...expand, expand, expand" ever outwards to all points of the compass, and ever upwards. The jam is too thin on the bread now and lots of business owners are feeling the pinch of a long low season in 2008, followed by a short, slow and shallow high season, and now are looking to survive and hope and pray the tourists come back in sufficiant numbers to "spread the jam a bit thicker" again. I doubt that will happen any time soon, and people havent got bottomless pockets of savings to baten down the hatches and weather the storm. I fear for friends, both Thai and Farang who make a living in Pattaya at the moment. And, yes it WILL be a sad sight, as the OP states. I am going to be there in a few days, and will have a look for myself.......NOT looking forward to some parts of my visit i dont think, going by reports here and conversations with people out there

Penkoprod

[thaimate]

We have just come back from central world and to be honest it was very quiet,now charging 30 baht an hour for parking over 1 hour although for some reason didnt charge me.

i remember Pattaya 20 years ago when only single guys seemed to come here and it was always busy and cheap.

now with trying to bring in the upper end of the market ,it doesnt seem to know its way any more ,dont get me wrong i love it here,but as my old gran used to say about people who tried to go up in the world but didnt know how"they are all fur coat and no knickers" thats patters ,its lost its way its not one thing or the other ,well actually it is ,its still what it was 20 years ago ,its just now its trying to wear its fur coat ,but its just the same underneath and higher end tourists know it.

[Phil Conners]

30 baht an hour for the privilege of dropping my car somewhere while shopping. Yikes. Tell me they at least have some ticket-stamp option ...

[thaimate]

30 baht an hour for the privilege of dropping my car somewhere while shopping. Yikes. Tell me they at least have some ticket-stamp option ...

no ,no ticket stamp option ,just a swipe card ,asked where i could swipe it but was told you cant,however as i said after 2 hours left and the girl said no charge---------- yet maybe?

[geriatrickid]

World economic conditions are the primary reason. During the past coups and unrest (go back a decade) the tourists kept coming. As long as Thailand was cheaper and still had its mystique, they came. Look at the prices now. Everything from airfares to lodging to food have increased out of range for the consumer worried about keeping his or her job. Look at investments. Mu investment income fell from 5% to practically nothing in less than 2 years and that was where my discretionary spending came from. The fact is the reds and the yellow dispute with the exception of the PAD airport disruptions has had minimal impact upon the tourists. No one has been beaten, threatened or put in harm's way. What matters is that tourist's inability to score a nice deal. It will be difficult as long as airlines keep cutting capacity every year to force up air prices.

[Penkoprod]

World economic conditions are the primary reason. During the past coups and unrest (go back a decade) the tourists kept coming. As long as Thailand was cheaper and still had its mystique, they came. Look at the prices now. Everything from airfares to lodging to food have increased out of range for the consumer worried about keeping his or her job. Look at investments. Mu investment income fell from 5% to practically nothing in less than 2 years and that was where my discretionary spending came from. The fact is the reds and the yellow dispute with the exception of the PAD airport disruptions has had minimal impact upon the tourists. No one has been beaten, threatened or put in harm's way. What matters is that tourist's inability to score a nice deal. It will be difficult as long as airlines keep cutting capacity every year to force up air prices.

You make some good points that some people will bury their heads in the sand about.......the issues regarding pricing being the main one.

I will go further and say that most, if not all "like for like" things are, in fact now, cheaper in my home country than in the majority of Thailand's tourist places......Pattaya in particular. Airfares are at their cheapest in a long time though, tbh

Penkoprod

[Ulysses G.]

What a load of crap. Thai food is MUCH cheaper than anything in your home country and so are hotels and ladies of the night. What else does a man need?

[Penkoprod]

What a load of crap. Thai food is MUCH cheaper than anything in your home country and so are hotels and ladies of the night. What else does a man need?

And what part of "like for like" do you have trouble understanding????

Penkoprod

[Ohio]

Left Patts after a few months watched the deval of my $ against the Baht. The prices go up as well & back home I find that I am spending less , but dining out more & haven't had a suicide from any high rises here at all for the Month I have been back . Heading to Malaysia next week , very cheap Air fare & Hotel is a bit over half what I paid in Patts , could not get any answers about the 'Free' rooms in Pattaya when I mailed. Notice some real estate prices coming down to reality almost though. Couldn't buy last time. Maybe next year.The only thing cheaper than here in Pattaya was Bananas , there may be other goods , but what I was interested in cost more in Pattaya than here & more than it did a few months before when I was there earlier.

[Ulysses G.]

What a load of crap. Thai food is MUCH cheaper than anything in your home country and so are hotels and ladies of the night. What else does a man need?

And what part of "like for like" do you have trouble understanding????

Penkoprod

All of it actually. We don't use that phrase where I come from. However, whatever it means, Thailand - in general - is still cheaper to live than any Western country and many items (electronics, cars, etc.) have always been more expensive here. Thailand is not a cheap version of Disneyland for traveling misers. It is a real country where some things are inexpensive and some are not.

[JR Texas]

What a load of crap. Thai food is MUCH cheaper than anything in your home country and so are hotels and ladies of the night. What else does a man need?

And what part of "like for like" do you have trouble understanding????

Penkoprod

All of it actually. We don't use that phrase where I come from. However, whatever it means, Thailand - in general - is still cheaper to live than any Western country and many items (electronics, cars, etc.) have always been more expensive here. Thailand is not a cheap version of Disneyland for traveling misers. It is a real country where some things are inexpensive and some are not.

Agreed.......some things are more expensive, some things are less expensive. But in the not so distant past almost all things were less expensive.

I was talking with a Thai friend the other day and she told me that she thought prices for most things in Thailand were now HIGHER than in Australia.

I thought, impossible..........maybe not. It is odd.......and I think we possibly can agree on this......that prices in Thailand seem to go up as the economy declines.

An average dump hotel three years ago cost 350 to 500 baht in Pattaya-Jomtien........now that same room cost 800-1000 baht. Makes no sense to me.

[Penkoprod]

All of it actually. We don't use that phrase where I come from. However, whatever it means, Thailand - in general - is still cheaper to live than any Western country and many items (electronics, cars, etc.) have always been more expensive here. Thailand is not a cheap version of Disneyland for traveling misers. It is a real country where some things are inexpensive and some are not.

Well i dont have the time to prove my point, by giving you cold, hard examples, because i have to catch a plane to Thailand in a few hours.

With a case laden with clothes and other consumables bought either for my personal usage, or things friends have asked me to bring over for them as they are getting fed up with being ripped off by greedy traders in Thailand.

But, when i have got time i will give you some examples of "like for like" items that i used to leave room for in my case to take back FROM Thailand, but now its gone the other way.

Like i said in one of my other posts here...........some people just put their heads in the sand. Some people have been too long in the place to know there IS a difference these days. BOTH sides of the coin, as it were.

And its not like people are being "traveling misers" as you put it......itsjust that some people can see it while others........cant or wont

Penkoprod