Stricter Requirements For Tourist Visa Applicants

[Gumbo]

From the "Application for Visa" form. Royal Thai Consulate-General, Brisbane.

Date of arrival in Thailand.

Traveling by.

Flight No or Vessels name.

Duration of Proposed Stay.

Date of previous visit to Thailand.

Purpose of Visit. [ Tourism][Transit][business][Diplomatic /Official][Other](please specify)

Proposed Address in Thailand.

Name and Address of local Guarantor.

Tel/Fax.

Name and Address of Guarantor in Thailand.

Tel/Fax.

Signature and Date.

Attention for Tourist and Transit Visa Applicants.

I hearby declare that the purpose of my visit toThailand is for pleasure or transit only and in no case shall I engage myself in any profession or occupation while in the country.

Signature and Date.

　

Gereric.

The Hull form asks what date you leave the UK and the date you arrive in LoS. What is immigration going to do if an A380 lands late at 1am on the 7th when it should have landed 10:30pm on the 6th? Or if a flight is cancelled and everyone has to leave for Thailand six hours later or the next day?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Needless to say, there's a BIG difference between asking on a form what someone's intended dates of travel are and what someone's expected residence location will be....

vs.

requiring copies of confirmed hotel reservations and purchased airline tickets...

However, at least for western countries, it's a bit academic at this point...

Thus far, contrary to the OP in this thread, there's been absolutely no evidence of any policy change for consulates at least in western countries re tourist visas....

Some were already asking for airlines tickets in some cases... Many were not... Even fewer seem to have been asking for hotel reservations.

But either way, several consulates that haven't been asking for such proof, including ones in the U.S. and UK, that have been contacted directly by TV members in the past few days have said they know of no policy change relating to tourist visas, period.

Likewise, the reports coming from members at the various SE Asian consulates in recent days likewise have been mixed and changing...

The OP in this thread stated: "The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok has instructed the Thai Embassies and Consulates abroad..." Meaning supposedly they have already done so... not that they're planning to...or will be doing so in the near future.

If one were to believe the accuracy of the OP post -- and I don't based on the evidence thus far -- one would have to wonder why so many consulates don't seem to have gotten the message.

Edited September 2, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just telephoned the Royal Thai Consulate in Brisbane and asked for their current requirements for a 60 day tourist visa and they advised that there were no changes to requirements providing you are an Australian citizen.

Flight number of the airline you will be flying into Thailand on OR a copy of your airline ticket.

OK.. Add to the growing list.. Now individual consulates in the U.S., UK, Canada and Australia have responded directly to TV members in the past few days saying no changes to their policy re tourist visas... The list is growing....

BTW, in reading the comments here and looking at various of the consulate web sites lately, I have noticed one particular trend....

Quite a few of the consulates I've looked at have one easier set of requirements for tourist visas if the applicant is a home resident of that particular country... and then have a somewhat longer list of requirements (more proof) if the applicant is from some other country...

I'm not saying that is a new change. Rather, that appears to have been the case all along... Electau's post above refers to that distinction. And I noted it as well on the web site of the Portland Ore. honorary consulate and on the Toronto Canada consulate web site as well.

So that would be consistent with the SE Asian consulates typically asking for more proof, since many of those applying for Thai tourist visa there -- especially at places like Cambodia, Laos and Malaysia -- are not citizens of those particular countries.

[JimGant]

"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bangkok has instructed the Thai Embassies and Consulates abroad..."

Based on previous instructions, where each embassy and consulate has interpreted MFA's guidance/suggestions/up-to-you in whatever way they want (show a plane ticket in, show a plane ticket out, show both, don't show any, or provide flight number), suggests the following oriental custom:

RICE BOWL n. A jealously protected program, project, department, or budget; a fiefdom.

So, new instructions can apparently be interpreted -- or ignored -- in the rice bowl spirit. Unless, MFA makes it absolutely clear (without yelling, of course) that a new rule has no wiggle room. As when they said "visiting friends" is not acceptable criteria.

Will be interesting to see how much rice is in this bowl...

[JimGant]

The Hull form asks what date you leave the UK and the date you arrive in LoS. What is immigration going to do if an A380 lands late at 1am on the 7th when it should have landed 10:30pm on the 6th? Or if a flight is cancelled and everyone has to leave for Thailand six hours later or the next day?

Immigration has no idea what date you provided in your application with MFA. Nor do they care. Why MFA cares about seeing a departure ticket, or date, doesn't make sense either. Presumably you've applied for a visa because -- dah dah -- you intend to travel to Thailand. Now, maybe they're just being helpful, in case your departure date falls outside the visa's validity period. But, I doubt that. They're just being bureaucrats.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Maybe they're just giving Thailand's new Foreign Minister the respect and deference that he's earned in his thus far short time on the job...

[Gumbo]

The Hull form asks what date you leave the UK and the date you arrive in LoS. What is immigration going to do if an A380 lands late at 1am on the 7th when it should have landed 10:30pm on the 6th? Or if a flight is cancelled and everyone has to leave for Thailand six hours later or the next day?

Immigration has no idea what date you provided in your application with MFA. Nor do they care. Why MFA cares about seeing a departure ticket, or date, doesn't make sense either. Presumably you've applied for a visa because -- dah dah -- you intend to travel to Thailand. Now, maybe they're just being helpful, in case your departure date falls outside the visa's validity period. But, I doubt that. They're just being bureaucrats.

I think you are correct.

[plumeria]

Yeah, all good stuff I'd love to see.

How unwise to make it more cumbersome for people to apply for a tourist visa just as a global recession is about to take hold.

If you truly want families and quality tourists here, how about these long term measures:

- Police reform to battle corruption. Like in South Korea. If they could do it, so can you. It's 2011 now, time to get real.

- Clean up the prostitution from the major tourist spots. Most tourists in the family category tend not to be impressed by prostitution in their face, and the prostitution business is a magnet for undesirables, both Thais and foreigners.

- Educate Thai electricians properly so fewer tourists are electrocuted in the shower. Parents tend to be quite upset when their children die because of neglect and incompetence.

- Regulate and ENFORCE the use of pesticides and insecticides so you won't have to wring your hands after tourists "inexplicably" drop dead in hotels and from eating poisonous food. Research, educate and encourage organic growth practices, natural and least dangerous pest control measures. Make sure the knowledge gets all the way to the actual farmers by engaging the village networks.

- Arrest ALL beggars on sight, interrogate them about their conditions and mafia networks, gather enough evidence, appropriate the assets of the leaders of the trafficking rings, give harsh punishments (fines and jail time) to everyone else involved or benefitting, use the money/assets collected in fines to rehabilitate and educate the beggars where possible. Keep up these arrests until it simple becomes too much hassle to beg or to benefit from begging.

- Clean up the scamming in tourist areas. That includes jet ski scams, gem scams, card game scams, and all the others.

[plumeria]

I wonder how many readers are aware of how difficult it is for Thais to get visas to many countries. They often have to jump through a lot of hoops. The visa red tape of some European countries far surpasses that of any country in Southeast Asia or East Asia that I have any firsthand experience with.

[Jingthing]

I wonder how many readers are aware of how difficult it is for Thais to get visas to many countries. They often have to jump through a lot of hoops. The visa red tape of some European countries far surpasses that of any country in Southeast Asia or East Asia that I have any firsthand experience with.

There's another forum on this very site for visas to other countries. This thread and forum is about visas for Thailand. Yes, we have heard now about 100,000 times about the issue you mention. I think pretty much ALL of us are aware of this. But thanks!

[thaibear1]

Lot of open questions within that message... but having checked the homepage of the Embassy here in Switzerland, I do not see any change for tourists from Visa excempt countries.

I would therefore also assume that people who need a Visa and stay with friends, will need an invitation letter as they did before...

But then again... typical Thai way... issue new rules with immediate effect.... but don't be precise... and specially do not let the people know who must deal with it (consulates etc)... otherwise all the fun would be gone from issuing unclear rules

Hello Swiss1960, I am Swiss too and don't trust what you see on the WEB of Thai Embassy in Switzerland, with actual informations they mostly 1 - 2 years late. So it happen to me 3 years ago when I fly to Switzerland to make new 1 year visa. Before they ask few papers, this time about 12 items ....!! Few paper need time to get it from Swiss authotrity as eg. criminal report from Bern but I had my fly after 4 days and left Switzerland woth a only 60 day tourist visa, lost a lot of money etc.! I try to explain them nothing is written in home page and instead a 1 year visa I got a SOLLY ... we don't care! After I managed here a non immigration as retired! The only info you can trust, consult before you apply the WEB of immigration here

Edited September 3, 2011 by thaibear1

[Maestro]

thaibear1, I find it difficult to make sense of your post. This topic is about the requirements for a tourist visa. You say you got a "60 day tourist visa" from the Thai Embassy in Bern, which means that you got what this topic is about.

If you want to talk about another category of visa -- your mention of a criminal report suggests that you mean the non-immigrant visa category O/A -- please feel free to start a new topic about it in this forum.

[ozzieovaseas]

I wonder how many readers are aware of how difficult it is for Thais to get visas to many countries. They often have to jump through a lot of hoops. The visa red tape of some European countries far surpasses that of any country in Southeast Asia or East Asia that I have any firsthand experience with.

A moot argument really..but i am sure others will pitch in using your post as target practice..Still if you are going to talk about jumping through hoops and pros and cons regarding expats it should be noted that...

Foriegn nationals that DO become citizens in our countries (No, it isnt made virtually impossible) CAN own businesses, CAN own land, CAN have spouses without constant reporting, CAN draw on our welfare systems (both finacial AND health) and DO not have to give up their citizenship..

Actually a lot of them (Thais) have become very rich running Thai restaurants and don't have the pleasure of being constantly harrassed!!!

So how are the comparisons looking now

PS. Forgot to add..and they very rarely fall off balconies either

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I heard this thread was about whether or not the MoFoA has issued a new stricter policy on issuing tourist visas....

Still not much conclusive evidence on that point, now 15 pages in... But a lot of different reports to choose from, one way or the other...

[ozzieovaseas]

I heard this thread was about whether or not the MoFoA has issued a new stricter policy on issuing tourist visas....

Still not much conclusive evidence on that point, now 15 pages in... But a lot of different reports to choose from, one way or the other...

Yes, the conversation has gone a little off the tracks in certain places

IMO, I havent seen anything solid that would suggest anything will change, just a whole lot of speculation about clauses that were already written, but rarely (if ever) enforced.

In any case, there are as many individual officers as there are locations, so i don't think any of them will be breaking their backs to create more work for themselves. Especially if there is not any great pressure to pass on all this "evidence" to the official Immigration in Thailand..and then have to have it all officially recorded.

Can you imagine any staff at Immigration centres wanting to sort through more hoardes of useless paperwork?? Many of them seem pretty busy as it is, so i cannot imagine it.

Edited September 4, 2011 by ozzieovaseas

[Maestro]

...Can you imagine any staff at Immigration centres wanting to sort through more hoardes of useless paperwork?? Many of them seem pretty busy as it is, so i cannot imagine it.

These additional requirements for tourist visa applications and stricter application of existing rules portends more work for the Thai consulates, not for immigration offices.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And another week passes....with no confirmation or explanation of the info in the OP of this thread....

So what transpired at the George/MFA interview (see post 173)

and more to the point why have the members not been kept up to date with any progress?

Even if George has not made any progress it would be common courtesy to let the members know what has happened.

I am in contact with them, but haven't got the right guy on the phone yet. Will advise soon.

[PaulDoughfile]

Obviously the "right guy" doesn't want to speak to him so he can't get past the switchboard

[sjefrie]

And another week passes....with no confirmation or explanation of the info in the OP of this thread....

So what transpired at the George/MFA interview (see post 173)

and more to the point why have the members not been kept up to date with any progress?

Even if George has not made any progress it would be common courtesy to let the members know what has happened.

I am in contact with them, but haven't got the right guy on the phone yet. Will advise soon.

It's unbelievable how this unconfirmed post starts to lead his own life on the net

http://dspoverseas.p...play&thread=577

http://www.travbuddy...hp?id=36936&p=1

http://www.pattaya-f.../visa_news.html

http://thailandretir...isa-applicants/

http://www.tripadvis...s-Thailand.html

http://thaivest.com/...visa-applicants

http://genefaithisaw...isa-applicants/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's the very unfortunate thing about several of these unproven, questionable "news" reports that have been getting posted in the Visas forum here lately..

Because ThaiVisa is considered a credible source on these matters, and it often it, the misinformation gets spread far and wide to many people who only see the original "news" report or some version of it.

But most of those folks probably never see the ensuing 16+ pages of TV posts from members with hands-on, first-hand experience where in this thread, and some others like it in the recent past, the original reports are pretty well proven simply untrue or at best overblown.

The responsible thing to do, when one spreads false or overstated information even unintentionally, is to correct it in the same place it was originally posted. But of course, doing that kind of involves admitting that the poster was wrong in the first place -- something not everyone is willing to do.

[Jingthing]

I don't get the accusation of misinformation here. There was an announcement of some changes. Some consulates and embassies ARE changing, yes? Not sure what some people expect. Instant and consistent enforcement of these rules everywhere? That's completely unrealistic. Why such a high standard on this change when a messy situation is the status quo on these kinds of changes, especially when new. Sure it would great if this was clean and simple and some big authority could make a global statement of authority, but methinks people are blaming the messenger unjustly.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Probably, Jing, because thus far, in areas beyond those bordering Thailand, there's been pretty much NO confirmation of any changes from what had been the status quo, and in fact, just the opposite, direct word from several western consulates including in the U.S. and U.K, that nothing has changed. When asked about the specific content of the OP here, those consulates said it simply wasn't true. Those comments are posted earlier in this thread.

Then, as for neighboring countries, there's been, as best as I can read, mixed reports thus far even from the same individual consulates... Some posters saying new requirements... some saying they got visas in exactly the same manner as in the past... Hardly much conclusive there...

In any case, the original post was all-encompassing and essentially said the policy had already been communicated out and would be enforced everywhere. Thus far, there's precious little evidence to support anything like that has occurred or is occurring...

But at least for me... I'm certainly willing to be corrected if my facts are wrong...

Edited September 8, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

So it might be about bordering countries mainly. So what?!? That's news too. Many, many long term staying foreigners in Thailand have been DEPENDING on the more liberal enforcement at bordering countries. For them, tightening enforcement is vital to their lives. Again, I remain annoyed that so many seem annoyed that this remains MESSY. On the forum, people can REPORT specifics about specific locations and through that process decide themselves whether this is relevant to them or not. Again, a perfect clean picture would be nice, but totally unrealistic, especially in the earlier stages of a change process.

In my view, people should be focused on the specific reports rather than spending any energy whining about the original news messenger.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What you call "whining", Jing, is what I call having an interest in the information being presented here as "news" -- as opposed to individual members' posts -- being reasonably accurate.

In this case, it is those individual members' posts you mention that have largely disproven the OP in this thread... and likewise with the other recent dubious "news" reports about tightened requirements/standards for retirement extensions and 90 day reports, which likewise have been proven inaccurate compared to the specifics presented in those respective OPs.

You and I and others here take the time to read thru dozens of pages of posts on such matters to try to get to the bottom of things... But many other folks out there end up getting the information from the OPs recycled and all they ever see if the original (misleading) report... not all that follows.

Edited September 8, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[rgs2001uk]

So it might be about bordering countries mainly. So what?!? That's news too. Many, many long term staying foreigners in Thailand have been DEPENDING on the more liberal enforcement at bordering countries. For them, tightening enforcement is vital to their lives. Again, I remain annoyed that so many seem annoyed that this remains MESSY. On the forum, people can REPORT specifics about specific locations and through that process decide themselves whether this is relevant to them or not. Again, a perfect clean picture would be nice, but totally unrealistic, especially in the earlier stages of a change process.

In my view, people should be focused on the specific reports rather than spending any energy whining about the original news messenger.

What is preventing these 'many long term staying foreigners in Thailand' applying for an extension of the original visa?

They may not live here full time but it doesnt prevent them getting a one year extension and a muliple entry visa.

If they are under 50 theres always the option of an education visa.

So cant really see the need for anyone to be relying on 'liberal enforcement'.

[Tafia]

This is standard procedure for many, if not most, countries in the world. If you have land, house, TGF, etc, then you should have the corresponding visa for such activities. Yes, they want control of their borders, just like any other country, as their hospitality and lax regulation have been abused over and over. I think many Thais would be quite happy to lose their reputation as whorehouse for the world. Even if it makes my life difficult in some ways, I'd still tend to agree with them.

There is NO visa for such thing

Im 25, Self employed I have a very long term thai girlfriend and a child. I have a house in her name and a car in her name and keep 0 baht here (cant change that)

Every country would have a visa for this, except thailand. All i can get is tourist.

If it's your child you can get a Non Imm O visa for the purpose of visiting family, just show the proof of relationship when you make your application. Your name on the childs Birth Certificate

[Jingthing]

What you call "whining", Jing, is what I call having an interest in the information being presented here as "news" -- as opposed to individual members' posts -- being reasonably accurate.

In this case, it is those individual members' posts you mention that have largely disproven the OP in this thread... and likewise with the other recent dubious "news" reports about tightened requirements/standards for retirement extensions and 90 day reports, which likewise have been proven inaccurate compared to the specifics presented in those respective OPs.

I think you are operating on wishful thinking. For example, at Pattaya the change for 90 day reporting is very real. Again, some people can't handle ambiguity and some might say if you can't handle that, you're going to have a long term problem with Thai immigration.

Let's not be childish about this. Is there ONE source that can always tell you exactly what the enforcement specifics are going to apply to your specific situation at your specific location at the specific time you are dealing with them? NO, and there never will be. You have to filter this out for yourself, sorry.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's nothing particular ambiguous about it...

Yes... Pattaya seems to be enforcing a different 90 days report process... But Bangkok and most other places haven't made any change and there's no sign they're planning to.

Likewise, the entire retirement extensions report turned out to be pretty well false, and we've now had months since the original OP for anything to surface that was going to surface...

I don't mind ambiguity... I do mind falsity.

[Jingthing]

There's nothing particular ambiguous about it...

Yes... Pattaya seems to be enforcing a different 90 days report process... But Bangkok and most other places haven't made any change and there's no sign they're planning to.

Likewise, the entire retirement extensions report turned out to be pretty well false, and we've now had months since the original OP for anything to surface that was going to surface...

I don't mind ambiguity... I do mind falsity.

The original sources about the income proving changes were sincere. They were not, however, gods. We find out over time what is actually happening and by the time we do, something new usually comes up. Yes, I call that ambiguity. It's like some of you are accusing people of malicious intent when reporting possible changes, and I do not buy it, well at least, not usually. Edited September 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'll let you have the last word, Jing... The facts speak for themselves...And I say that with all due sincerity...

Edited September 8, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK