Alternative Power Supply

[thomas2969]

Hi,

i do plan to build a house in Thailand (north east). And for that I also think about the power supply. The question I do ask by myself right now is: Buy the power from the company or looking for something like solar cells, photovoltaic or diesel generator.

If solar cells, photovoltaic or diesel Generator how big in KwH it needs to be for the house? Can anybody help me?

Basically my houses have:

- In my plan the house have 7 Air-conditions (but of course not all of them are in use to same time. I think 1 or 2 to same time)

- 3 Hot water Machine (each have 20 liter storage box)

- 3 TV

- 1 Kitchen with everything inside like oven, freezer

- Some fan

- 1 Computer

Regards

Thomas

Edited May 13, 2012 by Tywais
Fixed font to be more readable

[Naam]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

[thomas2969]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

I did not ask about costs or price for a alternative system. I did ask about in case i will use a alternative power supply how big in KwH the photovoltaics or diesel generator need to be for my house.

Regards

Thomas

[Naam]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

I did not ask about costs or price for a alternative system. I did ask about in case i will use a alternative power supply how big in KwH the photovoltaics or diesel generator need to be for my house.

Regards

Thomas

your question can't be answered because the information you supplied is rubbish insufficient.

example: there are aircons which draw 0.9kWh and aircons which draw 7.5kWh. fridges exist with a volume of 20 liters and 1,200 liters or more. the same goes for the power supply of water heaters.

[kwonitoy]

http://www.thaivisa....nerator-thread/

Some information about diesel genset's on this thread

Contact John on this e-mail, he's the guy that set me up with mine

//e-mail removed - use PM//

Once you can figure out how much power you need a diesel can be installed with your housebuild, a perfect time to do it

Forget about solar

Edited May 13, 2012 by Tywais
email removed as per forum rules

[Morakot]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

That is quite a generalisation, as discussions elsewhere in this forum have shown. Does the star member have a vested interest in non-solar types of power?

[prefabs]

Thomas 2969: Only way to get a decent idea is to add up ask the kw ratings of your machines and send it in. I know what you were trying to say in your original post, but more information is definitely required. Some hints for you to ponder

Some fan? How many is some. They all add up. 7 air cons, but only 2 at one time. Are you sure cos just one large capacity air con can be quite hungry. You do not show any floodlights(if required for security) water pump etc. Even makes a difference if the Televisions are Plasma or LCD for instance.

Your water heaters are probably 6kw each, maybe more. All on at once, even for a short time is quite a large current draw. It can happen, especially after a power cut when everything runs on start up. Rule of thimb is round about 4 Amperes per kw.

Many people on Thai Visa are well qualified to help, but correct information is required

[electau]

In reply to the original post.

Estimated Max demand from the information that you have given. Based on AS3000.

Lighting 3A.

Socket outlets 10A

3 x 20L( not instantaneous) HWS based on each unit rated at 10amps. = 30A You could use one 1800W storage HWS = 8A.

Hotplate unit 50% of connected load = 15A.

Airconditioners 7 x 5amps each. 75 % of connected load = 26A

Total max demand 84A or 62A ( one HWS) or 39A with solar HWS and LPG for cooking.

That gives a very approx guide to your proposed max demand in amps for the purposed of your consumers mains and metering if connected to a PEA supply.

However, if you intend to use a diesel generator set the size you propose to use will depend on you peak load in amps plus a margin of perhaps 20%. Peak load is not the same as max demand and may be only 50% of max demand. This you will have to calculate.

You should only use the above as a guide.You can reduce your max demand by using a solar thermal hot water system, and LPG for cooking. Your airconditioners may be larger than 5A each , you will have to allow for this.

The lowest cost option is generally the PEA supply, but where this is not available or would be too expensive diesel generation is the second option. The third option where the PEA supply is not available is a remote area power supply (RAPS). this system combines diesel generation with solar supply and batteries. They are expensive, but will reduce the amount of diesel fuel used.

　

[sirineou]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

I did not ask about costs or price for a alternative system. I did ask about in case i will use a alternative power supply how big in KwH the photovoltaics or diesel generator need to be for my house.

Regards

Thomas

your question can't be answered because the information you supplied is rubbish insufficient.

example: there are aircons which draw 0.9kWh and aircons which draw 7.5kWh. fridges exist with a volume of 20 liters and 1,200 liters or more. the same goes for the power supply of water heaters.

boy we are cranky today, what's the matter, are the Romulans encroaching on your neutral space?

The word rubbish was entirely unnecessary,

[Naam]

boy we are cranky today, what's the matter, are the Romulans encroaching on your neutral space?

The word rubbish was entirely unnecessary,

after fighting back the treacherous Romulans i crossed out, very hesitantly, the word rubbish even though it does apply. like it applies to dozens of threads with questions "how long is a piece of string?" and "what is the best way to push that piece of string from point A to point B?"

in nearly six years with Thaivisa i have been always willing to go the extra length and render some technical advice to the best of my knowledge when the questions are reasonable and sometimes i even comment (in a quite polite manner) on unreasonable questions. and when i have no idea i keep my mouth shut instead of injecting "i think", "i have heard", "somebody told me".

what makes me cranky are unreasonable reactions when somebody is told his question is unreasonable. that applies too for "eggsburts" who chip in with nonsensical answers and suggestions which have no bearing to the original poster's question.

e.g. in this thread the OP wants to know the total demand of his electrical gadgets by providing rubbish insufficient information and another one tells him to calculate the total demand reading something like this i feel like going out and hunt six-hoofed wild boars with my bare hands or kill a few Romulans or whatever aliens are crossing my way.

then, as expected, Professor Dr. Dr. Electau, Esq. (no offense meant be cause he is indeed very a knowledgeable person!) turns up and lectures a layman by bombarding him with expressions and abbreviations the layman has never heard and will not understand without studying several semester "sparky-ology" at an Australian university

[Naam]

search! there's a zillion threads about this topic in thaivisa. read one or two of them and you will abandon the idea of any "alternative" power supply that is economical because... it is not feasible.

That is quite a generalisation, as discussions elsewhere in this forum have shown. Does the star member have a vested interest in non-solar types of power?

the star member has no vested interest in non-solar type of power. but the star member has done his homework and is still keeping informed about all possible varieties of alternative energies whether they improve an existing situation and/or save energy. the conclusion of the star member is that anybody who is not technically well versed, can change a light bulb but nothing more, and is not willing to shell out a substantial amount of money for initial capital investment should forego all hopes as far as solar energy is concerned. that applies especially to plans running airconditioners on solar power.

the monetary/capital situation might change dramatically once it is actually possible to feed back solar power into the public grid, but with the emphasis on "actually" and not on paper. in many industrialised/developed countries that possibility exists already but as far as Thailand is concerned this might take a reincarnation or perhaps two... sigh...

[kamalabob2]

The OP could also walk into his local PEA office and look at the posted prices for new service. If he has a professional house electric plan prepared by a licensed Thai architect, the staff at any PEA office will be able to tell the OP what size service he must have, or his "meter options". We have eight a/c units of various sizes, 6 on demand multi point water heaters, pool pump, spa pump, house water pump, electric fence, way too many electrical appliances and last month our PEA electric bill was under 2900 baht. We pay just under 4 baht a unit for DEPENDABLE electricity, so that "solar thing" sure does not "pencil out". A more sensible size home could have a smaller size meter, I sure am not advocating such a large home or as many a/c units to any sensible person. But the PRICE is put in writing for new installations, the price you pay for PEA electricity is on the web site and I check our meter each month when the PEA meter reader comes onto our property to read our enclosed meter.

The "wild card" is remote locations, PRIVATE roads, living in an area with limited available power going "by your front driveway" on the current PEA poles. However if you bring in your plans, perhaps your land papers showing your location, the PEA will be quite helpful. You do have the option to hire a licensed electrical contractor, often at a lower fee for some aspects of NEW service, but you still must pay some of the mandatory PEA installation fees, and of course still buy that "less than 4 baht a unit" power from the PEA.

The best Solar item we have is the "Solar heated pool". When the sun shines the blue tile makes the water warm. The Sanki Brand SOLAR clothes dryer seems to work fine. That solar clothes dryer has needed a new set of plastic wheels, but the aluminum construction seems to hold up to the Thailand unforgiving sun.

[Khutan]

I cannot understand if the OP's idea is to have environmentally friendly electricity; regardless of the cost, or to have a cost saving measure, where he can save on the PEA rates.

[JAS21]

The best Solar item we have is the "Solar heated pool". When the sun shines the blue tile makes the water warm. The Sanki Brand SOLAR clothes dryer seems to work fine. That solar clothes dryer has needed a new set of plastic wheels, but the aluminum construction seems to hold up to the Thailand unforgiving sun.

Beautiful.................

[electau]

A simpler solution to the problem of max demand is to take the rating of a meter eg 45A and use that figure or another figure eg 63A. This is the average for a Thai electrical installation.

The max demand is 45A or 63A (the current rating of the main MCB). Dependant on your actual demand in amps there will be a max value at certain times of the day where you are using more electricity than normal. This is your peak load and is generally less than the maximum demand.

As a general guide add up all the max items of individual equipment you are most likely to be using at one time in amps and this is the basis of your peak load.

There are various ways of determining max demand, the easiest and simplest is to use the current rating of a fixed setting MCB.

The information given is to be used as a guide only, you should contact the PEA for their supply requirements first.

[Naam]

I cannot understand if the OP's idea is to have environmentally friendly electricity; regardless of the cost, or to have a cost saving measure, where he can save on the PEA rates.

why would the OP reveal these kind of secrets to us outsiders?

[electau]

When one looks at alternative power supplies the first option is always the public electricity supply network.(PEA/MEA)

However this may not be feasable or economical if the distance from the nearest HV ( high voltage supply) is over a certain distance. The proposed consumer may have to pay a substantial amount of the capital cost, poles, aerial conductors and transformer to the PEA.

Cost of electrical power from the PEA is curently about 4B per kWh. for residential use.

If this is not an option then diesel generation may be the answer, you will have maintainance costs for the generator and costs of fuel,oil and filters. You will have fuel transport costs and storage. Most probably your fuel will be in 200L drums.

Fuel consumption is about 0.3Litres per kW per hour running time.

The third option is a RAPS which combines diesel generation and solar PV modules. This reduces the fuel consumption and running time on the generator during daylight hours. They can be manufactured in small output sizes eg 6.0kW/230V. These may not be available in Thailand (they are available in Australia). RAPS systems can have provision for wind generation also as an alternative to solar or to implement solar. They are very expensive.