Tell Me About Your Water Pump

[attrayant]

Now that I've attached all the shower fixtures in my house, my fears have been confirmed. I need a pump to get the 2nd floor shower going. This is a fairly small house as far as water needs go - only two floors and two bedrooms. The pressure to the 1st floor shower is fine. But the water just can't seem to make that 5 meter climb to the 2nd floor shower head.

sigh

I was really hoping that I could get by without a pump, as I feel they are an ugly blight on the facade of any house, like a wart on a witch's nose. Therefore I am aiming to get the smallest pump possible that can provide just enough boost to get the water up to the 2nd floor shower head.

The WMP line from Hitachi looks nice, and with a DC motor it ought to be whisper quiet. But I am wondering if a 150 watt (their smallest) would meet my needs. Most houses I've seen, including the one I'm in now, have massive pumps about twice the size of a 5 gallon bucket of paint. Clearly that's much more than I need. I'd also be worried that a massive pump would eventually burn itself out trying to draw more water from the mains than can be supplied.

Does anyone here have experience sizing a water pump for such a small demand?

Edited September 17, 2012 by attrayant

[TS79]

Grundfos - Quiet, Quality, Reliable...but more pricey.

[MrRealDeal]

I absolutely HATE those dam_n pumps they are NOT quiet they are annoying as hell ......... Get one of those huge water vat looking things , they add the pressure you need and are a nice supply of water if the main shuts down for a while ..... I cant stress strongly enough how much I HATE those annoying little pumps. do they work ? yes .......... on off on off on off click click buzz buzz every time you use the water it's click on and click off they are the most annying thing I have ever had in my life and yes if the main goes out they run until the burn out saftey switch shuts it down.

And trust me it's not because the pump was improperly pressurised or the pressure tank not correctly inflated , they are just annoying , get a glass of water it's click click , flush the toliet it's click click buzzzzzzzzzz , ect , all day all night every time you use the water 24\7 365 days a year.

If I can go to my grave helping just one person avoid one of those pumps I will die a happy man !

Edited September 17, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[jpinx]

Can you put a small tank above the upper shower? Then fit a tiny pump to refill it and connect it through a float-switch on the upper tank. I did the same in Spain and used a solar diaphragm pump to suck the water up the last couple of metres.

[MrRealDeal]

I would point out if you scroll down this section you will see numerous threads from people complaining about or asking how to fix these hellish annoying pumps

[Crossy]

Despite what mrrealdeal says pumps from Grundfos are whisper quiet, I have trouble telling if ours is running or not.

On the other hand the cheap Chinese one that runs the garden sprinklers screams like a baby

[MrRealDeal]

Despite what mrrealdeal says pumps from Grundfos are whisper quiet, I have trouble telling if ours is running or not.

On the other hand the cheap Chinese one that runs the garden sprinklers screams like a baby

Well I didnt have a cheap chineese one but have also not used the one you are reffering to so I guess the main point would be to be especially carefull which type you buy , and your version of quiet and mine might be different. I still say that using a big tank has advantages over those pumps even if they were noise cancelling ! I had one made in Japan I forget which common manufacturer it was.

[TS79]

I absolutely HATE those dam_n pumps they are NOT quiet they are annoying as hell ......... Get one of those huge water vat looking things , they add the pressure you need and are a nice supply of water if the main shuts down for a while ..... I cant stress strongly enough how much I HATE those annoying little pumps. do they work ? yes .......... on off on off on off click click buzz buzz every time you use the water it's click on and click off they are the most annying thing I have ever had in my life and yes if the main goes out they run until the burn out saftey switch shuts it down.

And trust me it's not because the pump was improperly pressurised or the pressure tank not correctly inflated , they are just annoying , get a glass of water it's click click , flush the toliet it's click click buzzzzzzzzzz , ect , all day all night every time you use the water 24\7 365 days a year.

If I can go to my grave helping just one person avoid one of those pumps I will die a happy man !

He hates the Grundfos pump even though he hasn't used a Grundfos pump. What a quality and useful reply from him. One of the reasons why I rarely post on here because of the flames that come as a result of trying to help someone.

Obviously it depends on how the pump is plumbed in. If there is no buffer / pressure tank then of course the pump will run as soon as you open the tap, however If you design the system well then the pump will only operate when needed. I have my pump connected to a 500 litre pressure tank and water filter so the pump runs for 4 minutes 3 or 4 times a day (dependent on water useage) when the pressure in the system drops to 2 bar.

If the OP doesn't want an ugly pump and pressure tank on display and he could fit a pump on the line going directly to the problem shower then the pump would only run when that shower is used.

There is loads of pump threads on here. I am just stating, along with many others that the Grundfos brand of pump is a superior brand to most of the crap that is available.

Edited September 17, 2012 by TS79

[lopburi3]

You should never pump from water mains (I suspect it is illegal as there used to be serious issues in Bangkok of drawing in ground water (or the next house wash water) and all I see now have tanks - use a storage tank if you plan to use a pump. Most people used to have shallow well pumps with pressure tank but nave noticed a move to just pumps lately and indeed they are click on and a real pain in the ear. Grundfos should be much quieter but hope you have better luck then me as have had two units and both required repairs within a year and repairs done during flooding last year provided a very loud unit (suspect they ran out of spare parts). It is still working and inside a house area so living with the noise (at least easy to discover leaks - which are common with the much higher pressure these pumps supply).

[attrayant]

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know people were so passionate about this topic.

Can you put a small tank above the upper shower? Then fit a tiny pump to refill it and connect it through a float-switch on the upper tank.

I'm not sure that would get me any significant increase in pressure, since the water tank would only be about a meter higher than the shower head. I suppose I could pressurize the tank, though. However this would require ripping out the wall to redirect the plumbing up to the attic space, and I am not really liking that idea.

I did look at Grundfos but everything I could find appeared to be industrial-strength, or for farm irrigation. They don't seem to make any bite-sized pumps.

You should never pump from water mains (I suspect it is illegal as there used to be serious issues in Bangkok of drawing in ground water (or the next house wash water) and all I see now have tanks - use a storage tank if you plan to use a pump.

I'm cognizant of the potential issues of drawing directly from the main. My goal to ensure that I don't draw the water faster than the main can supply it. The main line is fully capable of supplying a large volume of water (I know this because one of my workers broke the feeder into the house while it was under renovation, and it was like Niagara Falls for a few minutes until we got it shut off), it just can't supply it at a sufficiently high pressure to get it up to the 2nd floor.

The mains feeder is three-quarter inch, and I think I'll reduce it down to a half-inch on the output side of the pump just to make sure I don't draw faster than the supply can handle.

[Pib]

To the OP, yes the series you mentioned will work fine to supply water to your second story. But I would not recommend the WMP150 or 200 due to their lower water pressure output of 1.4 to 1.8bar and 1.6 to 2.2 bar, respectively. That pressure is kinda low. I would recommend you buy a pump whose "lower" pressure (i.e., pump turn on) is no lower than 2.0bar. The WMP250 fits that bill with a 2.0 bar (pump turn- on) to 2.6 bar (pump turn-off) pressure range.

In my two story house I use a Mitsubishi water pump (a 250 watt model) with a 2.1 to 2.8 bar pressure range and it provides good pressure upstairs and to my water hoses around the yard.

Grundfos pumps are indeed good and quite pumps...they are also pricey in comparison to the type of pump you are thinking about buying...around twice the cost.

Also, in Thailand, when obtaining your water from the water mains/soi lines I would highly, highly recommend you have a storage tank simply because it is not uncommon for water to go off or drop to very low flow/pressure levels which will just make any water pump run and run and run and overheat in trying to suck water that ain't there. A storage tank of around 850 liters is one of the smaller one (I have such a tank) and it provides me with approx a 2 day supply of water (the wife washes cloths a lot and waters the landscape) in those cases when the water mains are now providing any/much water. I live in Bangkok.

[MrRealDeal]

I absolutely HATE those dam_n pumps they are NOT quiet they are annoying as hell ......... Get one of those huge water vat looking things , they add the pressure you need and are a nice supply of water if the main shuts down for a while ..... I cant stress strongly enough how much I HATE those annoying little pumps. do they work ? yes .......... on off on off on off click click buzz buzz every time you use the water it's click on and click off they are the most annying thing I have ever had in my life and yes if the main goes out they run until the burn out saftey switch shuts it down.

And trust me it's not because the pump was improperly pressurised or the pressure tank not correctly inflated , they are just annoying , get a glass of water it's click click , flush the toliet it's click click buzzzzzzzzzz , ect , all day all night every time you use the water 24\7 365 days a year.

If I can go to my grave helping just one person avoid one of those pumps I will die a happy man !

He hates the Grundfos pump even though he hasn't used a Grundfos pump. What a quality and useful reply from him. One of the reasons why I rarely post on here because of the flames that come as a result of trying to help someone.

Obviously it depends on how the pump is plumbed in. If there is no buffer / pressure tank then of course the pump will run as soon as you open the tap, however If you design the system well then the pump will only operate when needed. I have my pump connected to a 500 litre pressure tank and water filter so the pump runs for 4 minutes 3 or 4 times a day (dependent on water useage) when the pressure in the system drops to 2 bar.

If the OP doesn't want an ugly pump and pressure tank on display and he could fit a pump on the line going directly to the problem shower then the pump would only run when that shower is used.

There is loads of pump threads on here. I am just stating, along with many others that the Grundfos brand of pump is a superior brand to most of the crap that is available.

I never meant to insuate I hated the Grundfos pump in particular but the pumps in general , which is why I clarified it ..... I'm sorry if you are all butt hurt because I don't like water pumps but I don't. It's you who are flaming me not the other way around , my posts were honest and thats how I feel , yours is just a flame just because I don't like pumps and your assumption that because my post was under a paticular kind of pump that I was reffering to it .... I didn't even notice that post before I made mine.

But you are correct annoying flamers are annoying ..... although after looking at your post and my post I can see how you wold feel that I was refering to what you said ..... the post I made claiifying it was removed for some reason............... . oops it was not removed it is right there rendering your post a little more flamish than I thought

Edited September 17, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[Naam]

I would point out if you scroll down this section you will see numerous threads from people complaining about or asking how to fix these hellish annoying pumps

there are no hellish pumps. but there are a lot of hellish technical ignorants

[Naam]

Obviously it depends on how the pump is plumbed in. If there is no buffer / pressure tank then of course the pump will run as soon as you open the tap, however If you design the system well then the pump will only operate when needed. I have my pump connected to a 500 litre pressure tank and water filter so the pump runs for 4 minutes 3 or 4 times a day (dependent on water useage) when the pressure in the system drops to 2 bar.

you be da man TS79!

[Daffy D]

If the problem is only for the upstairs shower why not get a hot water shower heater with BUILT IN PUMP?

Same size and looks as normal wall mounted heater and pump only comes on when you shower.

[sezze]

I have the same Hitachi WMP 150 pump and it works like a breeze . It is great for small demand services , which i case i have also . Provides me with enough pressure for the things i need ( shower , bathtub ,...) . Mine is a single story house but i expect it to work fine for a 2 story house also . It doesn't switch constantly on/off unless you do have a leak somewhere and i quietly enough to barely hear it from inside the house ( the pump being on the other side of the wall) . It is not at all annoying , even if you are standing next to it .

[attrayant]

If the problem is only for the upstairs shower why not get a hot water shower heater with BUILT IN PUMP?

Same size and looks as normal wall mounted heater and pump only comes on when you shower.

I honestly had no idea such things existed. I shall research.

[Naam]

If the problem is only for the upstairs shower why not get a hot water shower heater with BUILT IN PUMP?

Same size and looks as normal wall mounted heater and pump only comes on when you shower.

dat pump wont suck from "down" Daffy, that's why it would suck if the OP installs one it's meant to boost flow and pressure of the water delivered from an overhead tank.

[lopburi3]

And even that effect is very limited - believe it is normally just to provide pulse type shower action - and even that is marginal.

As for pump not being heard in house loud what about the neighbors? In urban settings a loud pump is not going to make you very popular with the neighbors.

[Daffy D]

If the problem is only for the upstairs shower why not get a hot water shower heater with BUILT IN PUMP?

Same size and looks as normal wall mounted heater and pump only comes on when you shower.

dat pump wont suck from "down" Daffy, that's why it would suck if the OP installs one it's meant to boost flow and pressure of the water delivered from an overhead tank.

Reading the OP again it does seem he's not getting ANY water upstairs so you're right the shower pump would not work in this case

[attrayant]

Reading the OP again it does seem he's not getting ANY water upstairs so you're right the shower pump would not work in this case.

I'm getting water upstairs, it's just very weak at the shower head so the water just dribbles out. The sink tap and bum gun both work fine, but they don't require as much pressure as a shower head.

[luudee]

Hmm, OP, did you check to make sure there ain't any dirt in the shower line ? If the

sink is ok, the shower shouldn't just dribble ....

I 100% agree with TS79, dryfuss pumps rock. I had mine for over 5 years, not a

single problem ... But that might be overkill for your situation. I don't know how small

they make them ... mine is 2HP.

Good luck,

rudi

[JAS21]

Hmm, OP, did you check to make sure there ain't any dirt in the shower line ? If the

sink is ok, the shower shouldn't just dribble ....

I 100% agree with TS79, dryfuss pumps rock. I had mine for over 5 years, not a

single problem ... But that might be overkill for your situation. I don't know how small

they make them ... mine is 2HP.

Good luck,

rudi

Good point ... liif the bum gun as high as possible and lower the shower head to the same height ... compare the pressure/flow ... that could point you in the direction to look for the problem. Then check inside all the srewed joints looking for debris or washers blocking the flow... a start anyway.

[Denim]

Can someone clarify for me. Water pumps don't increase your water supply, they just give you better tap/ shower pressure. Is that correct ?

[Pib]

Well, it all depends. If your pump is sucking water from a good water supply like a storage tank or main (soi) water line with adequate pressure/capacity then your are going to get more water capacity/pressure coming out of your tap/shower. But if you hook up a pump to a water main water line that has really low pressure/capacity then it's kinda like sucking on a straw when the water glass is empty....you ain't going to get no more water into the mouth...you'll be sucking air. You could have the best/most expensive/most powerful pump in the world, but it has to have an adequate supply of water to suck/pressurize.

[Denim]

Well, it all depends. If your pump is sucking water from a good water supply like a storage tank or main (soi) water line with adequate pressure/capacity then your are going to get more water capacity/pressure coming out of your tap/shower. But if you hook up a pump to a water main water line that has really low pressure/capacity then it's kinda like sucking on a straw when the water glass is empty....you ain't going to get no more water into the mouth...you'll be sucking air. You could have the best/most expensive/most powerful pump in the world, but it has to have an adequate supply of water to suck/pressurize.

Thanks. thats what I thought.

I found out it was illegal to instal a pump between your tank and the mains supply last year. Several people in our old village were busted by the water authorities last year for doing this. Initially they were told to pay a fine. Naturally, being Thais, they just laughed at this until the water authorities came and disconnected all their metres with dire threats if they tried to reconnect them before paying their fines.

So, in other words, if the mains pressure is insufficient to fill your tank, best complain to the water authority before trying to ' suck on a straw '

[Pib]

I installed a small pump at the mother-in-laws home back in November that connects directly to the soi line....she lives in a village in Nakhon Pathom province which is a province bordering Bangkok....everybody else and their bother does the same thing in her village. Her water meter is inside her yard walls, so the water man has to knock on the gate, the mother-in-law allows entry for him to read the meter and issue the water bill...the water pump is located about 3 feet from the meter....the waterman don't care.

[Denim]

I installed a small pump at the mother-in-laws home back in November that connects directly to the soi line....she lives in a village in Nakhon Pathom province which is a province bordering Bangkok....everybody else and their bother does the same thing in her village. Her water meter is inside her yard walls, so the water man has to knock on the gate, the mother-in-law allows entry for him to read the meter and issue the water bill...the water pump is located about 3 feet from the meter....the waterman don't care.

Yes, out in the country I guess this is so. In the suburbs where you have a lot of housing estates, the pumps are outside the perimeter wall. A lot of people even had to cage them in to stop thefts by enterprising thieves.

[lopburi3]

I have not seen anyone pumping directly for several decades here in Bangkok and am quite sure there is no looking the other way anymore as you are putting everyone on that line in danger with such activity and most people now understand that (although at the same time pressure/better lines has been increased to a point where it is likely much less of an issue). Everyone has a storage tank for such use if using a pump in my moo-ban (which is more than three decades old).

[Denim]

Last year when the water main burst underground and mains pressure dropped to almost nothing before they found the underground break, no one was getting any water and everyones tank ran dry so nothing to pump. The only person who still had plenty of water was the guy who owned the local store. He had 3 very large tanks installed underground to run his washing machines. When the pressure was low he was o.k. because being gravity fed, water always flowed into his tanks.

If you are going to have a tank and pump at all, worth considering having it underground. A bit more expensive but you will always have water.

Land And Homes build their new houses with this system. Looks a lot neater too.