Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Kinnock]

Sorry to labor the query - but after reading the latest posts I'm still not sure.  With PR status can I just apply for an annual multiple entry permission once a year at the Immigration Office?

 

And if I don't have the multi-entry permit, I need to go to the Immigration Office before I travel?

 

If I need to do this every time I want to travel, then sounds like I don't want PR status before I stop work, as my job involves weekly trips out of Thailand?  Buit if it's just an annual process, then no big deal, as my current Non Imm requires annual trips to the One Stop Visa Centre.

 

Thanks for all the useful responses so far - just trying to understand if my current plans make sense.

 

 

[THAIJAMES]

30 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Sorry to labor the query - but after reading the latest posts I'm still not sure.  With PR status can I just apply for an annual multiple entry permission once a year at the Immigration Office?

 

And if I don't have the multi-entry permit, I need to go to the Immigration Office before I travel?

 

If I need to do this every time I want to travel, then sounds like I don't want PR status before I stop work, as my job involves weekly trips out of Thailand?  Buit if it's just an annual process, then no big deal, as my current Non Imm requires annual trips to the One Stop Visa Centre.

 

Thanks for all the useful responses so far - just trying to understand if my current plans make sense.

 

 

Its just an annual process.  You go to immigration to get multiple re-entry once, which allows unlimited entries for the year.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Sorry to labor the query - but after reading the latest posts I'm still not sure.  With PR status can I just apply for an annual multiple entry permission once a year at the Immigration Office?

 

And if I don't have the multi-entry permit, I need to go to the Immigration Office before I travel?

 

If I need to do this every time I want to travel, then sounds like I don't want PR status before I stop work, as my job involves weekly trips out of Thailand?  Buit if it's just an annual process, then no big deal, as my current Non Imm requires annual trips to the One Stop Visa Centre.

 

Thanks for all the useful responses so far - just trying to understand if my current plans make sense.

I believe you can still buy the re-entry permits one by one or a couple at a time which would save money, if you only leave the country once or twice a year. Before multiple re-entries existed we used to estimate how many times we expected to leave the country in the next year and buy the appropriate number of re-entry visas for B500 each plus a couple of extras for good luck. (It was a single re-entry permit that said you could use it X number of times.) If you underestimated, you had to waste your time going back to Immigration to buy more.  I think everyone gets multi-entry re-entry permits now.  It's so much easier.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Its just an annual process.  You go to immigration to get multiple re-entry once, which allows unlimited entries for the year.

 

It can be an annual process if you travel very frequently. But it's NOT a compulsory or required annual process. But read on...

 

If you have PR if works like this:

 

- If you have NO plans to travel outside of Thailand and return to LOS then you don't need an exit / re-entry stamp. Perhaps this scenario (no plans for travel abroad) could continue for 10 years, 20 years or even the rest of your life - no need ever to get an exit / re-entry stamp. 

This also kills any suggestion it's a compulsory or required annual process for PR holders - IT'S NOT.

 

- But suddenly something comes up and you need to do a trip home / a holiday (whatever) and you have travel dates. Perhaps a week before the departure date you must go to a Thai Immigration office and get an exit / re-entry stamp (this means an appropriate stamp in your passport and a companion stamp in you PR book). It's not complex, it's a very mechanic clerical process, there no interview or questions or whatever. Depending on numbers of customers 30 minutes total up to???

 

- You have two choices:

 

- Get a single exit/re-entry stamp (meaning you can use it for one trip only) and the stamps will show an ultimate expiry date, but of course it's invalid as soon as it's been used.

 

- Get a multiple exit/re-entry stamp, total validity of one year from the date of issue and you can use it any number of times until the one year expiry date comes up.

 

(Note: A multiple exit / re-entry stamp is the stamp that very frequent business travellers (regular out and in travellers, often same day / just a couple of days way out and return) would usually get - used many times until it is about to expire (it has a one year validity). Then before the one year validity expires get a new one year multiple exit / re-entry stamp. (Common for busy business people who need to work continuously across 2 or more

countries.

 

This means these specific people (just above) get a new one year multiple trip stamp about once year, but they do it yearly / annually because it suits their needs, NOT because it's an annual compulsory process - IT'S NOT.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by scorecard

[onthemoon]

13 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Sorry to labor the query - but after reading the latest posts I'm still not sure.  With PR status can I just apply for an annual multiple entry permission once a year at the Immigration Office?

 

And if I don't have the multi-entry permit, I need to go to the Immigration Office before I travel?

 

If I need to do this every time I want to travel, then sounds like I don't want PR status before I stop work, as my job involves weekly trips out of Thailand?  Buit if it's just an annual process, then no big deal, as my current Non Imm requires annual trips to the One Stop Visa Centre.

 

Thanks for all the useful responses so far - just trying to understand if my current plans make sense.

Yes, do need to do the yearly trip to Chaeng Wattana, *unless* you know you'll never leave the country. Such people do exist, and they don't have a stamp in their passport or their blue/white book. If you don't have the stamps and do need or want to travel, you *do* have to go to immigration before departure. Don't let others confuse you. Neither Suvarnabhumi nor Don Mueang issue these stamps, and Chaeng Wattana works only during government hours.

 

The good news is that it takes an hour or so, just fill in the forms and pay the fees. There is on average only one person ahead of me. Much easier than with a non-imm.

 

You can get a single-entry visa and endorsement, but if you plan more than two or three overseas trips per year (including one spare entry in case of emergency), a multiple-entry visa and endorsement (that's what the stamps are called) is already cheaper. And less hassle.

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Yes, do need to do the yearly trip to Chaeng Wattana, *unless* you know you'll never leave the country. Such people do exist, and they don't have a stamp in their passport or their blue/white book. .

 

1

Inaccurately expressed yet again.

 

It is not the case a PR has to do the yearly trip to Chang Wattana unless he knows he'll never leave the country. Many, perhaps most, will get the stamps shortly before an overseas trip comes up. I have in the past left it for 2 years because there was no need.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Inaccurately expressed yet again.

 

It is not the case a PR has to do the yearly trip to Chang Wattana unless he knows he'll never leave the country. Many, perhaps most, will get the stamps shortly before an overseas trip comes up. I have in the past left it for 2 years because there was no need.

Well said!

 

[onthemoon]

32 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Inaccurately expressed yet again.

 

It is not the case a PR has to do the yearly trip to Chang Wattana unless he knows he'll never leave the country. Many, perhaps most, will get the stamps shortly before an overseas trip comes up. I have in the past left it for 2 years because there was no need.

Yes, some people want to take the risk of not having the stamps ready in their books, but I would advise against it. But hey, it's up to you. If you know 100% sure that there will never be an emergency trip you have to take, and you can sleep well, you should be fine.

 

I think everybody got it now. You need these stamps if you leave the country, otherwise your "Permanent" Residency will be automatically cancelled the moment you return. This is what I said from the beginning, and nobody has proven me wrong. We can close this subthread now.

[rimmae2]

And the winner is..........? The answer is.............what most of us who wanted to know (at least me) knew before it all started.

[mortenaa]

I use Autogate now. Nobody checks any stamps. I wonder what would happen on entry without a valid re-entry stamp.. Anybody tried yet? ????

[jayboy]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Yes, some people want to take the risk of not having the stamps ready in their books, but I would advise against it. But hey, it's up to you. If you know 100% sure that there will never be an emergency trip you have to take, and you can sleep well, you should be fine.

 

I think everybody got it now. You need these stamps if you leave the country, otherwise your "Permanent" Residency will be automatically cancelled the moment you return. This is what I said from the beginning, and nobody has proven me wrong. We can close this subthread now.

 

It can certainly be closed now. The details set out in your last paragraph were well established and were always known to all. Nobody at any stage has questioned any of these details so it is frankly absurd you feel the need to say nobody has proven you wrong. You did however create all the confusion by suggesting there was some kind of pre-approval process which it turns out existed only in your imagination. You owe an apology for time wasting. 

[scorecard]

37 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

I use Autogate now. Nobody checks any stamps. I wonder what would happen on entry without a valid re-entry stamp.. Anybody tried yet? ????

Good question.

 

 

[Michael Hare]

Yesterday I got my multiple re-entry stamps at Ubon Ratchathani Immigration as I am leaving Thailand on business next week. I am planning on making several overseas trips this year. Usually it takes an hour or so. Yesterday I arrived at 13:10 and left at 15:45. Collected a quene ticket and waited about 50 minutes before my number was called.

 

The lady officer at the desk said that they only did 2-3 re-entry permits per year for people with PR.  They asked my permission to take a photo of me signing my signature in one of these huge old ledgers. This was to show the big bosses when they come up from Bangkok for inspections. 

 

I didn't have to fill out any forms. She did all of this on the computer and when the forms were printed out, I signed in many places. I also signed in two of these big ledgers which looked like they were at least 100 years old. She said it was tricky as they required a lot more enteries than before. Even then she got some things wrong and her superior yelled at her when the final forms were being examined.

 

Took 45 minutes for her to do all the typing, paste in my photos etc. The only photcopies she needed were those of my house registration book and the front page of my passport. As my blue book only has one page left I asked about getting a white book. She said yes, they will issue me with one the next time I come in. But the white book has to be sent up from Bangkok. I asked her how long that took. She replied that she didn't know because she had never had anyone in Ubon ask for one. 

 

The superior had other visas to check and it took her just over 1 hour before she dealt with my paperwork and signed off.

 

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

Yesterday I got my multiple re-entry stamps at Ubon Ratchathani Immigration as I am leaving Thailand on business next week. I am planning on making several overseas trips this year. Usually it takes an hour or so. Yesterday I arrived at 13:10 and left at 15:45. Collected a quene ticket and waited about 50 minutes before my number was called.

 

The lady officer at the desk said that they only did 2-3 re-entry permits per year for people with PR.  They asked my permission to take a photo of me signing my signature in one of these huge old ledgers. This was to show the big bosses when they come up from Bangkok for inspections. 

 

I didn't have to fill out any forms. She did all of this on the computer and when the forms were printed out, I signed in many places. I also signed in two of these big ledgers which looked like they were at least 100 years old. She said it was tricky as they required a lot more enteries than before. Even then she got some things wrong and her superior yelled at her when the final forms were being examined.

 

Took 45 minutes for her to do all the typing, paste in my photos etc. The only photcopies she needed were those of my house registration book and the front page of my passport. As my blue book only has one page left I asked about getting a white book. She said yes, they will issue me with one the next time I come in. But the white book has to be sent up from Bangkok. I asked her how long that took. She replied that she didn't know because she had never had anyone in Ubon ask for one. 

 

The superior had other visas to check and it took her just over 1 hour before she dealt with my paperwork and signed off.

 

The traditional long-term PR holder, specially in the provinces, was a Chinese immigrant who arrived when it was still easy to get PR but never managed to get citizenship, either because they couldn't qualify, couldn't be bothered or didn't want to give up Chinese nationality. I used to see a lot of elderly Chinese signing their names with thumb prints, waiting for endorsements and re-entry permits at the old PR section in Soi Suan Plu in Bangkok but I guess many have died since then. Many of the survivors don't bother with endorsements any more, as they no longer travel. I have come across Thai officials who said the red book was only for Chinese and couldn't understand how I got one . Farangs living and working in the provinces are more likely to go straight to citizenship these days, if they have a Thai spouse and can figure out how to get around the difficulties facing applicants living outside Bangkok.

[Michael Hare]

When I got my last 5 year endorsement at the Ubon Ratchathani police station I asked the officer how many PR holders were in the Ubon province. He thought about 400 hundred. I, myself, have not come across another "farang" having PR status in Ubon. But a few years ago I was at a local Vietnamese-Thai funeral and when I explained that I had PR and had a red book, the people around me all said just like us!

[samran]

On 1/2/2019 at 7:17 PM, Kinnock said:

 

If I need to do this every time I want to travel, then sounds like I don't want PR status before I stop work, as my job involves weekly trips out of Thailand?  Buit if it's just an annual process, then no big deal, as my current Non Imm requires annual trips to the One Stop Visa Centre.

 

 

 

 

Just a note, that you wont qualify for PR if you do stop work, so best to get it while you are in gainful and, in the eyes of immigration, 'good' employment.

 

Also note, if married to a Thai, you can skip PR and go straight to citizenship.

[onthemoon]

21 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Yesterday I got my multiple re-entry stamps at Ubon Ratchathani Immigration as I am leaving Thailand on business next week. I am planning on making several overseas trips this year. Usually it takes an hour or so. Yesterday I arrived at 13:10 and left at 15:45. Collected a quene ticket and waited about 50 minutes before my number was called.

 

The lady officer at the desk said that they only did 2-3 re-entry permits per year for people with PR.  They asked my permission to take a photo of me signing my signature in one of these huge old ledgers. This was to show the big bosses when they come up from Bangkok for inspections. 

 

I didn't have to fill out any forms. She did all of this on the computer and when the forms were printed out, I signed in many places. I also signed in two of these big ledgers which looked like they were at least 100 years old. She said it was tricky as they required a lot more enteries than before. Even then she got some things wrong and her superior yelled at her when the final forms were being examined.

 

Took 45 minutes for her to do all the typing, paste in my photos etc. The only photcopies she needed were those of my house registration book and the front page of my passport. As my blue book only has one page left I asked about getting a white book. She said yes, they will issue me with one the next time I come in. But the white book has to be sent up from Bangkok. I asked her how long that took. She replied that she didn't know because she had never had anyone in Ubon ask for one. 

 

The superior had other visas to check and it took her just over 1 hour before she dealt with my paperwork and signed off.

 

 

Just for info, in Bangkok they wanted to see the originals (passport, tabien baan etc), but did not take copies. They said, it's all in the computer anyway. And right they are.

[Bangel72]

On 1/11/2019 at 3:17 PM, samran said:

Just a note, that you wont qualify for PR if you do stop work, so best to get it while you are in gainful and, in the eyes of immigration, 'good' employment.

 

Also note, if married to a Thai, you can skip PR and go straight to citizenship.

This depends on the reason you are using to obtain PR, but yes I have seen people run into issues where they applied for PR on the basis of 3 years of tax income and having a job but then being between jobs by the time the PR was actually approved, involved some sort of last minute donation or leave country today discussion.

[Bangel72]

Does anyone know of anyone who has had the PR revoked, had someone rambling on this at the weekend but just wanted to know if there were any actual real cases people know of here. The forgetting to get your re-entry visa is on scenario but again do not know of a single case personally.

[scorecard]

25 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

Does anyone know of anyone who has had the PR revoked, had someone rambling on this at the weekend but just wanted to know if there were any actual real cases people know of here. The forgetting to get your re-entry visa is on scenario but again do not know of a single case personally.

Agree, I've heard many times that failure to have / use exit/re-entry stamp can lead to PR revokation, but never heard of a real example.

 

Maybe 2 weeks back a TV member mentioned he had lost PR 3 times on arrival back in Thailand because on each occasion he had been out of Thailand over 364 days in one block period. This scenario was explained to me at the PR interview, also told that there is no process to challenge the cancellation or to gain a review. 

 

The other circumstance I'm aware of (again explained at the PR interview) is that gaining a criminal record, anywhere means automatic cancellation of PR with no process to challenge or gain a review. 

 

In all of these circumstances, perhaps more especially the last 2, I'm doubtful there is much public detail of actual PR cancellations.

 

 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

Does anyone know of anyone who has had the PR revoked, had someone rambling on this at the weekend but just wanted to know if there were any actual real cases people know of here. The forgetting to get your re-entry visa is on scenario but again do not know of a single case personally.

 

Yes, I know someone whose PR was cancelled because he came back a couple of weeks after his re-entry permit had expired, due to the fact that he had been unexpectedly hospitalised and operated on while overseas and was unfit to travel by the due date. No amount of doctors' certificates made any difference.  The law is the law and it is in black and white in the Immigration Act. Immigration was very apologetic about cancelling it and helped him reapply successfully.  CW advised me to always be sure to have extra time before renewal when planning trips in case of emergencies of travel delays.  A couple of times I renewed early ahead of a trip, just in case.

 

In the case of a criminal record, I think it has be something imprisonable that would be bad enough to get a non-PR deported after serving his sentence.  I don't think you will get your PR revoked for first time DWI or other driving offences. Remember the Yingluck government tried to revoke the PR of the Indian guy, Seghal, for appearing on the yellow shirt stages but in the end they gave up.  Revoking PR for cause other than re-entering without a valid re-entry permit requires a decision from the Immigration Committee, as far as I know, and I believe it can be appealed.  However, if you are convicted of a criminal offence and the judge orders your deportation after serving your sentence, it may not be worth arguing.  If he doesn't order this, you might have a chance.  The same applies to naturalised Thais.  A court can order that their citizenship be revoked but has only ever been reported in serious cases like drug dealing and a couple, who lost their Thai citizenship over a gambling den conviction successfully sued the minister in the Administrative Court and got their citizenship reinstated 16 years later!

[brianinbangkok]

Hi guys,

I have a PR.

So my next renewal of the re-entry permit is about to come up.

As far as I remember I need the filled out form.

My pasport that is valid for at least a year and the certificate of residence thats white in my case as they issued a new one last year plus the red police ID book and of course photo's and the fee. Right ?

 

My wife thinks I also need to hand in the tabien ban 

I can't remember ever having doing that except maybe when I got the new white book ?

 

Or is it something new ?

 

I will do the renewal at CW.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by brianinbangkok

[jayboy]

8 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

Hi guys,

I have a PR.

So my next renewal of the re-entry permit is about to come up.

As far as I remember I need the filled out form.

My pasport that is valid for at least a year and the certificate of residence thats white in my case as they issued a new one last year plus the red police ID book and of course photo's and the fee. Right ?

 

My wife thinks I also need to hand in the tabien ban 

I can't remember ever having doing that except maybe when I got the new white book ?

 

Or is it something new ?

 

I will do the renewal at CW.

 

 

I have usually taken the tabien baan along as a precaution at renewal time but it has never been asked for.

 

If you need to change your blue/white book, it is required.

[beeper]

Is there a extra fee to get a new white book ( I am sure there is)? How much is it?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, beeper said:

Is there a extra fee to get a new white book ( I am sure there is)? How much is it?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

I think you mean a payment for the actual little book (rather then the fee for processing it). I've received the white book twice (because book was full):

 

All payments, I've made, for the actual book:

 

- Initial blue book  3Baht

- First white book  5Baht.

- Second white book  no charge. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by scorecard

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, beeper said:

Is there a extra fee to get a new white book ( I am sure there is)? How much is it?

This is what it shows on the immigration website. I think the correct name for the white book is residence certificate.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=fee

[THAIJAMES]

We all know that you can loose your PR from being out of the country when your reentry expires.

 

But what happens to your blue house registration book and red book.  Would these become null.

 

I ask because when looking at the requirements for citizenship.  I noticed the following:

"

4. They should have received permission from the Immigration Bureau to remain permanently in the Kingdom of Thailand and be able to show supporting documentation in the form of a Certificate of Residence, an Alien Registration Book, or a House Registration Certificate (Thor Ror 14) that proves incontrovertibly that they have been permanently resident in Thailand for not less than 5 years.

"

So technically you would have already received permission and PR from Immigration and you might still have your House Registration Certificate and Alien Registration Book to prove that you have resided permanently more than 5 years in Thailand.

 

Would you still be allowed to apply for citizenship with a revoked PR?

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

This is what it shows on the immigration website. I think the correct name for the white book is residence certificate.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=fee

[GabbaGabbaHey]

53 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Would you still be allowed to apply for citizenship with a revoked PR?

To apply, perhaps, if you still have the book, but when it comes to getting PR section in CW to confirm back to the Special Branch that you are valid PR holder, you'd fail - I guess. Not to mention it's likely that airport immigration would have added some noticeable "invalid entry" or something nice like that in your PR blue/white book when you enter Thailand after more than a year out of country, which SB would see and block you. Anyone has ever seen that kind of stamp? 

Edited January 22, 2019 by GabbaGabbaHey

[THAIJAMES]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:38 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

To apply, perhaps, if you still have the book, but when it comes to getting PR section in CW to confirm back to the Special Branch that you are valid PR holder, you'd fail - I guess. Not to mention it's likely that airport immigration would have added some noticeable "invalid entry" or something nice like that in your PR blue/white book when you enter Thailand after more than a year out of country, which SB would see and block you. Anyone has ever seen that kind of stamp? 

Actually the invalid PR would show up right away on the Immigration computers.  What I was actually wondering if the citizenship requirement is to have had or to still have a PR. I am not sure if I am making the distinction clear.