Kawasaki unveiling some new Ninja

[mania]

http://www.ninja-h2.com/

Some speculation it may be a 750 or a downgraded ZX6 to market match Honda 650

Hopefully it is the former because we dont need anymore

downgraded utility/sport bikes

This is their marketing blurb............... I tend to think it sounds like their going turbo

'With cutting-edge performance recognised as a core element of the Kawasaki worldwide DNA, the company will showcase yet another

ground-breaking motorcycle at the Intermot Motorcycle Show in Cologne starting on Sept 30th. A motorcycle “Built Beyond Belief”.

Drawing on skills and experience from experts within not just the company’s motorcycle division but across its aerospace, gas turbine and other

high-technology contemporary manufacturing disciplines as well, Kawasaki is anticipating huge international interest in the project that has evocatively

been christened Ninja H2. Harnessing the power of the Kawasaki manufacturing group “collective strength”, the H2 will represent a unified engineering and state of the art technology approach

Capturing the spirit of the 750cc Mach IV H2 that, along with the 500cc three cylinder H1 and all-conquering 903cc Z1 Super Four,

epitomised Kawasaki’s market defining performance image, the Ninja H2 project is set to add yet another name to the roll call of machines that embody

Kawasaki’s performance and engineering expertise while changing the motorcycle landscape forever.'

[dave_boo]

Interesting they mentioned 3 different bikes in that marketing blurb. Wide range of range of HP (74, 60 and 81 for the Mach IV H2, Mach III H1, and Z1 respectively). 2 of them are obviously triples. All of them are what we would call air cooled standard bikes.

Could it possibly be an air cooled 750cc triple? Sort of in the vein of their W800...but with more HP (only 48 HP from the W800).

Here's hoping that my guesses (with the exception of being air cooled-water cooled will allow a higher compression ratio and more power) are right. And they make it in Thailand so I can justify buying one as the price will be sane. And it produces more HP than the CB1100 (which only has 84). I know Kawasaki can do it.

[RubberSideDown]

It would be cool to see a two-stroke that burns clean enough to pass emissions tests (and has decent fueling, unlike the ill-fated Bimota V-Due).

It's probably a turbo or supercharged engine, though- this could be the start of a very interesting trend.

[JonnyF]

I'd guess an inline 4 rival to the cbr650 range. If that's the case then it could well be made in Thailand. If they keep the Ninja 300/zx6r styling with similar specs to the cbr650 then it will do well IMO.

[mania]

I do not think it is old technology because they said

while changing the motorcycle landscape forever.'

So that kind of rules out air cooled or inline 4's etc.

Also this line kind of points to something new/ turbo-ish?

experience from experts within not just the company’s motorcycle division but across its aerospace, gas turbine and other

high-technology contemporary manufacturing disciplines as well,

[mania]

It would be cool to see a two-stroke that burns clean enough to pass emissions tests (and has decent fueling, unlike the ill-fated Bimota V-Due).

It's probably a turbo or supercharged engine, though- this could be the start of a very interesting trend.

Oh a new wave 2stroke would be great but I agree could be interesting new technology of some kind

[eisfeld]

I do not think it is old technology because they said

while changing the motorcycle landscape forever.'

So that kind of rules out air cooled or inline 4's etc.

I am not a bike or engine expert by any means so this is an honest question: Why do you say inline 4s are old technology? Is there any other type of engine making these obsolete? There are other engine types but they have different charateristics so are not a direct replacement.

Like for example water vs air cooled. I think water cooling just brings advantages while not changing the character much.

Personally I agree with you that it sounds like turbo/supercharger. Definitely will be interesting!

[JonnyF]

I do not think it is old technology because they said

while changing the motorcycle landscape forever.'

So that kind of rules out air cooled or inline 4's etc.

Also this line kind of points to something new/ turbo-ish?

experience from experts within not just the companys motorcycle division but across its aerospace, gas turbine and other

high-technology contemporary manufacturing disciplines as well,

Hope you're right, but having had the misfortune to be invited to some "marketing" meetings I'd take that with a pinch of salt

I wouldn't rule out a triple but I'd be amazed to see a 2 stroke or a turbo in there. A triple along the lines of the MT09 in a faired bike would be pretty cool though...

[RubberSideDown]

Kawasaki has never been afraid to make horsepower- maybe they finally found a suitable platform for this engine:

[guzzi850m2]

Let it be 3 Cyl., pleeeease.

If so, it will pull like a locomotive in the whole rev range.

RSD, that looks like a turbo on that engine, where did you source that?

[mania]

I do not think it is old technology because they said

while changing the motorcycle landscape forever.'

So that kind of rules out air cooled or inline 4's etc.

I am not a bike or engine expert by any means so this is an honest question: Why do you say inline 4s are old technology? Is there any other type of engine making these obsolete? There are other engine types but they have different charateristics so are not a direct replacement.

Like for example water vs air cooled. I think water cooling just brings advantages while not changing the character much.

Personally I agree with you that it sounds like turbo/supercharger. Definitely will be interesting!

Sorry I did not mean that to sound final or fatalistic towards inline 4's

What I meant to say was just my guess at what they hint at would be something different.

I think it was Dave who mentioned air cooled triple but I think they went for that retro angle before

& this is ....at least seemingly a new direction.

But as JonnyF said a lot of times marketing hype is just that...hype

But Kawasaki has a bit of history for brute force so could be interesting

[mania]

Let it be 3 Cyl., pleeeease.

If so, it will pull like a locomotive in the whole rev range.

RSD, that looks like a turbo on that engine, where did you source that?

Kawasaki Supercharged Inline Four at Tokyo

Also...

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/kawasakis-supercharged-four-cylinder-engine/24037.html

[Dutchbike]

A Turbo would be nice, back in the 1980's the big four all had a Turbo charged models ( Honda CX 500/650 Turbo, Kawasaki Z 750 Turbo, Suzuki GS 650 turbo,XN 85 Yamaha XJ650 turbo) and i think even Moto Morini had a V-twin 500 turbo) it never was a big succes and they dissapeared after a few years. Mayby this time?? BTW Any news about the rumours (a few months back) of a Kawa 250cc 4inline??

[yankee99]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/kawasaki-teases-the-upcoming-ninja-h2-is-it-the-supercharged-machine-video-85938.html

[NomadJoe]

It would be cool to see a two-stroke that burns clean enough to pass emissions tests (and has decent fueling, unlike the ill-fated Bimota V-Due).

It's probably a turbo or supercharged engine, though- this could be the start of a very interesting trend.

Been Googling have you?

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/kawasaki-teases-the-upcoming-ninja-h2-is-it-the-supercharged-machine-video-85938.html

[dave_boo]

If it is a supercharged engine, versus the turbocharged of long ago, will it be able to rev like a sports bike is supposed to? The experience I've had with superchargers (both centrifugal and roots style), usually had a set of compromises. The effective RPM range is awfully narrow for what would be expected from a motorcycle engine. Remember that most superchargers are attached to big block V8 engines.

While adjusting the pulley sizes (ratio) can allow one to use it later in the RPM range, it negatively affects the low end. A variable vane setup could alleviate concerns but I shudder to think what the cost of such a system would add to the bike's cost. I googled around and it seems the supercharger kits affixed to Harleys run at least 4K USD.

I was the person who mentioned the air cooled engine. As all the bikes listed in the press blurb were air cooled standards which were the most powerful ones in their segments during their time, that's why I extrapolated forward. If Kawasaki can make a 4 stroke engine that is the most powerful in the class whilst air cooled they can meet the claims, in my opinion, that were made. The aerospace and turbine industries use material that are expected to function under extremely adverse environments; exactly the sort of thing needed for such an engine.

Kawasaki does not currently make 2T engines. Had it been a press release from Yamaha, who still makes 2T outboards, I'd be thinking it was an announcement of a 'smoker'.

The page that Yankee99 linked to is interesting. Kinda blows my wishlist of it being a standard out of the water. Also; with the turbo being mounted above the transmission will make for interesting intake routing. An air to air exchanger would not (?) be easily packaged though.

[RubberSideDown]

It would be cool to see a two-stroke that burns clean enough to pass emissions tests (and has decent fueling, unlike the ill-fated Bimota V-Due).

It's probably a turbo or supercharged engine, though- this could be the start of a very interesting trend.

Been Googling have you?

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/kawasaki-teases-the-upcoming-ninja-h2-is-it-the-supercharged-machine-video-85938.html

Yes, as much as possible- there's no solid info out there, and I want to know what they're coming out with, and I read all the speculation- I've been waiting to see what happens with the engine above since it was revealed months ago.

Kawi is claiming something ground-breaking, so I doubt it's a retuned version of what's already out there- a clean two-stroke would be ground-breaking, as would a mass-produced turbo or supercharged engine that's actually suitable for the street (the older bikes didn't really work out). There will be more info in a couple days, and hopefully they're not 'blowing smoke' (unless it actually is a two-stroke),

[RubberSideDown]

I remember when the Suzuki B-King was announced- everyone was sure it was going to be supercharged, and it was a disappointment when it came out with a normally-aspirated engine.

If Kawi is calling this the 'H2', it would seem to indicate a triple or two-stroke (or both)- if they brought back the 'GPZ' name, a turbo would be more likely.

If they come out with something like a naked version of the ZX-10R (Suzuki is coming out with one based on the Gixxer 1K), I'll be very underwhelmed.

[yankee99]

Gotta luv the smell of 2 smoke in the morning. Unfortunately whatever it is will almost certainly need to be imported.

[Deacon Bell]

A 750cc 3cyl 2-stroke like the original H2, now that would be nice!

[mania]

Not sure of this is accurate but anyway..............

[mania]

Looks like it came from MCN

Supercharged Ninja imminent

[RubberSideDown]

If it's some 250-300hp monster I would trade my 14R for it, but it will probably be something with a lower displacement bumped up to ~200hp.

I hope it's a monster, though...

I don't think Kawi has confirmed anything at this point.

[ll2]

Cool. Kawasaki needs some updates sure in their line up.

Hope not a turbo though. Turbo means no linear power delivery or a fake linear power delivery plus turbo lag. Also sudden turbo surge.

But trend in automative sector is downsizing engines with the help of turbos or superchargers so bike makers will follow the case sooner or later.

If kawa revive turbo bikes, sure other makers follow.

I think kawa will make something to compete with honda 650 series inline four and maybe replacing er series with one of these new models.

Two stroke should be fine but i dont think so.

Congrats for kawasaki on some new ideas and thoughts.

[Overandout]

Turbo means no linear power delivery or a fake linear power delivery plus turbo lag. Also sudden turbo surge.

Well done ll2 !

You've accurately and concisely described what I loved about my Kawasaki 750 Turbo!

Now, if they could just wrap that concept in a chassis capable of allowing the bike to take corners and stop (something that they failed spectacularly with on the original), they will be onto a winner!

[mania]

Hope not a turbo though. Turbo means no linear power delivery or a fake linear power delivery plus turbo lag. Also sudden turbo surge.

But trend in automative sector is downsizing engines with the help of turbos or superchargers so bike makers will follow the case sooner or later.

I don't think really true anymore ll2

Take a look at what Formula 1 has done with small engines/turbos now & also things like KERS energy recovery systems etc

Or even the Mclaren P1 street car effective power band is like all of the 7000rpm range

3.8 liter twin turbo with over 700hp & more than 700nm torque @7500rpm

Add the KERS system into it & they do over 900hp & 900 torque

0-100kph 2.8sec

0-200kph 6.8 seconds

It also has a DRS system or configurable rear wing that retracts into the car

Would put a smile on anyone's face hahah

This guy is so funny to watch from about the 20 minute point on

He is just totally giddy/drunk with the performance

Must have been fun....but a million euros not baht & you could probably not find one to buy anyway as less than 400 made & all were sold

This one is in Dubai....not surprisingly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8tGX-HPQE

[ll2]

Hope not a turbo though. Turbo means no linear power delivery or a fake linear power delivery plus turbo lag. Also sudden turbo surge.

But trend in automative sector is downsizing engines with the help of turbos or superchargers so bike makers will follow the case sooner or later.

I don't think really true anymore ll2

Take a look at what Formula 1 has done with small engines/turbos now & also things like KERS energy recovery systems etc

Or even the Mclaren P1 street car effective power band is like all of the 7000rpm range

3.9liter with over 700hp & more than 900nm torque

0-100kph 2.8sec

0-200kph 6.8 seconds

Would put a smile on anyone's face hahah

This guy is so funny to watch from about the 20 minute point on

He is just totally giddy/drunk with the performance

Must have been fun

Of course it will put a smile:D

But these tech is not available for mainstream models.

Auto makers handle turbo lag and smooth things a bit with twin turbo - a small one for low revs and a big one for high revs - or geometrical turbo units. If they put one of these systems sure it makes sense.

And also turbo tech is growing every year too which will bring a lot of benefits in the future.

But what makes sense for me is not a turboed liter bike on steroids but a 150 kg 500 cc turbo that makes 150 hp! If they make it, then welcome turbo!

Suzuki announced a turboed prototype before named 'recursion'. Sure some remember. That fits my definition a bit.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/blogs/suzuki-recursion-concept-to-speed

[mania]

But what makes sense for me is not a turboed liter bike on steroids but a 150 kg 500 cc turbo that makes 150 hp! If they make it, then welcome turbo!

Suzuki announced a turboed prototype before named 'recursion'. Sure some remember. That fits my definition a bit.

Yes I remember that & agree lightweight & usable power

Which is why I think many will go sub 500cc in the future but with weight & performance to match

I could be wrong but also I recently read a good interview from

KTM's Gerald Kiska

I agree with what he said when he said this.........

So where is the market heading?

"The growth in the market is now between 125 and 500cc, not just in Europe but also the emerging markets whose sales are going up as Europe's are going down. I think the sales will eventually meet in the middle. People are now starting to realise that you don't need 180hp to have fun on a motorcycle, which is what I like about the Duke 390. You can squeeze it out like a lemon and this is a feeling I have not had since my youth riding RD350s. It is fun to ride, an easy going and flickable motorcycle. Corners are fun on a motorcycle, not late braking and accelerating to an extreme."

Also this to some degree is very true

How do you view the Japanese manufacturers?

"Look at the supersport category, they made better and better bikes, lost more and more money and now they are forced to make the decision to effectively stop the class. It is very strange behaviour to ruin a market and not gain market share - it's great for the consumer as you are getting amazing machines for very little money, but where is the sense for the manufacturer? I'm almost looking forward to seeing which segment they will ruin next!"

[ll2]

But what makes sense for me is not a turboed liter bike on steroids but a 150 kg 500 cc turbo that makes 150 hp! If they make it, then welcome turbo!

Suzuki announced a turboed prototype before named 'recursion'. Sure some remember. That fits my definition a bit.

Yes I remember that & agree lightweight & usable power

Which is why I think many will go sub 500cc in the future but with weight & performance to match

I could be wrong but also I recently read a good interview from

KTM's Gerald Kiska

I agree with what he said when he said this.........

So where is the market heading?

"The growth in the market is now between 125 and 500cc, not just in Europe but also the emerging markets whose sales are going up as Europe's are going down. I think the sales will eventually meet in the middle. People are now starting to realise that you don't need 180hp to have fun on a motorcycle, which is what I like about the Duke 390. You can squeeze it out like a lemon and this is a feeling I have not had since my youth riding RD350s. It is fun to ride, an easy going and flickable motorcycle. Corners are fun on a motorcycle, not late braking and accelerating to an extreme."

Also this to some degree is very true

How do you view the Japanese manufacturers?

"Look at the supersport category, they made better and better bikes, lost more and more money and now they are forced to make the decision to effectively stop the class. It is very strange behaviour to ruin a market and not gain market share - it's great for the consumer as you are getting amazing machines for very little money, but where is the sense for the manufacturer? I'm almost looking forward to seeing which segment they will ruin next!"

totally agree.

if i want a turboed liter bike, just get a small Garrett turbo unit and install it to a current supersport liter bike for a great straight line performance.

where turbo makes sense is light low cc models. Anyway, market is going this way as stated in the quote.

also apart from HP, turbos biggest advantage is great torque numbers and the fact that torque curve is flat nearly from the beginning till the end like an electric motor. that is cool and offers super flexible.

thinking again, i dont say no to a low cc turboed bike and welcome any manufacturer going that way but please no turbo lag, no turbo surge and a bit more linear power manufacturers!

i am sure they will develop turbo tech soon more and we will not be having these side effects as well.

i am positive on turbo!

[RubberSideDown]

They're saying it will be supercharged, not turbo-charged- if that's the case, lag will not be an issue.